Frustrated! Young problematic horse.

AengusOg said:
I cannot understand why some people are giving the OP such a hard time. She has been fairly open and has explained the theories behind her decisions regarding her young horse. I don't understand why it is so unbelievable to some that stabling a horse can not only alter its behaviour, but can bring about great improvement in its attitude and trainability.

I PMd the OP telling her about one particular horse with whom I worked, for a past employer, who within three weeks was brought from a horse which had had no handling and wouldn't be caught, and who may have been deemed dangerous by some, to a horse which wore rugs, travel boots, lifted all his feet, led out, tied up, wore tack and was bitted, lunged, loaded into a trailer on several occasions, and sold.

This particular horse was brought in, loose, to the stables and effectively isolated from his herd from day three. His behaviour was a bit frantic to begin with, and he had little regard for me or anything else for a few days, but soon began to look for me coming to see him, feed him and muck out. After a couple of days his box-walking had ceased, he was safe to share a loose box with, and he settled down gradually over the next few days. He started to call to me when I entered the yard, and quickly became calm and trainable.

I have worked with lots of horses for various people, and used similar tactics to 'focus' them.

It was common practice at one time to stable horses for short periods so that they grew less reliant on the herd and more reliant on their human companions/handlers. I still do it here at home with my own. Each of them will come into a stable on their own, away from the others, and quickly adapt to the new regime without much fuss. They may call out for an hour or two the very first time they come in, might barge about a bit and even sweat a little, but very quickly settle. They learn the routine and come to expect visits and interaction with me at certain times of day; the rest of the time they eat or sleep. What is wrong with that?
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Absolutely agree. OP does not sound like a novice and to accuse her horse of being 'shut down' is a little unfair if he's not been observed first hand.
 
risky business said:
I have to say I agree, like I said it was a very sudden turn around from being completely stressed, over reacting to everything, needing a chain to walk him from one spot to another and being neurotic to being completely sedate.. In a matter of days?..

I really hope he has improved so he can go back to having a normal life but it was a sudden 180. All due to a stable, have to admit it doesn't sound all that realistic.
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No sudden 180 to being completely sedate. Stable environment was enriched with activities such as apple bobbing in water bucket, slices of apples/carrots hidden in haynets tied in different areas of stable, salt lick on wall, mineral lick on floor, stable mirror, grooming, practising having bridle taken on and off, groundwork in stable, Magnotherapy, Microcurrent Therapy and a combination of calming herbs along with walks around the yard with a calm companion horse. He also had a constant next door neighbour during day and lots of company at night. Had farrier trim him, dentist check teeth and vet check.

His particular favourites were picking out the next grooming brush and helping me shake out the fresh straw.

He does still require a bridle and chain for leading and do not expect this to change in very near future. However, when leading him to field after boxed for 12 days he extremely good considering all factors and that he is only 3.

There is still a long way to go but being able to have him completely relaxed in a stable is a very important step to his overall mental and physical health.
 
ester said:
As I was one that did suggest that I might not keep a horse going who found life so difficult to cope with- the picture you have now posted of him is not one of the deeply traumatised animal which was portrayed/I was imagining previously.
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Hi, the horse in my avatar is not of my youngster but of my beloved eventer that earned me my Country's colours. He is very recently deceased after 8 yrs of pampered retirement.
 
BeckyCandy said:
I have similar youngster very brave, people person chap- went to be castrated at 31/2 as retained testicle had op followed by a week of box rest with penicillin injections. He was ruined! I'd done all the groundwork by the end of the week we couldn't really get near him. Sent him away for 2 weeks to have monty Roberts type work done to re introduce rugs etc as couldn't do this alone and neede a round pen/ smaller area to work in. Came home slightly better but not 100% backed him to see if this would help and it massively helped he was surprisingly vey easy to back and willing. He is still spooky/jumpy on the ground an think everything you do will e painful and scary. BUT since being ridden full time he is getting better he bites a lot is as if he doesn't no what else to do it's not nasty he goes to them makes himself jump but the more time passes the better he gets. He is very way to handle in general just a bit jumpy on the ground now. I spen a lot of time playing with him. I won't just lunge ill lunge then do some ground work backing up, moving over both sides, teaching to how. Patience is the key. Routine and consistency ! Also as much turnout as poss to allow he's mind to stay active and keep him as calm as possible :) good luck and stick with it it is so much more frustrating than is they have alway been that way I feel x
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I'm so pleased for you and your boy!

Think I've just had so many opinions since his traumatic experience with vets that it was confusing to know what was the best way to manage him. However I really feel we have both 'turned a corner' now and am very positive about the future.

My lad and I had a bit of fun today in field, I threw and kicked a turnip about and he went and 'found' it for me (if grabbing turnip and cantering around field with it counts!).
 
AengusOg said:
I cannot understand why some people are giving the OP such a hard time. She has been fairly open and has explained the theories behind her decisions regarding her young horse. I don't understand why it is so unbelievable to some that stabling a horse can not only alter its behaviour, but can bring about great improvement in its attitude and trainability.

I PMd the OP telling her about one particular horse with whom I worked, for a past employer, who within three weeks was brought from a horse which had had no handling and wouldn't be caught, and who may have been deemed dangerous by some, to a horse which wore rugs, travel boots, lifted all his feet, led out, tied up, wore tack and was bitted, lunged, loaded into a trailer on several occasions, and sold.

This particular horse was brought in, loose, to the stables and effectively isolated from his herd from day three. His behaviour was a bit frantic to begin with, and he had little regard for me or anything else for a few days, but soon began to look for me coming to see him, feed him and muck out. After a couple of days his box-walking had ceased, he was safe to share a loose box with, and he settled down gradually over the next few days. He started to call to me when I entered the yard, and quickly became calm and trainable.

I have worked with lots of horses for various people, and used similar tactics to 'focus' them.

It was common practice at one time to stable horses for short periods so that they grew less reliant on the herd and more reliant on their human companions/handlers. I still do it here at home with my own. Each of them will come into a stable on their own, away from the others, and quickly adapt to the new regime without much fuss. They may call out for an hour or two the very first time they come in, might barge about a bit and even sweat a little, but very quickly settle. They learn the routine and come to expect visits and interaction with me at certain times of day; the rest of the time they eat or sleep. What is wrong with that?
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After reading your post, I burst into tears.

Support is greatly appreciated after so many negative, nasty and ignorant comments. I am only human, after all, I do have feelings too!

Horse in question is chilling and grazing in field atm, just as he had been chilling and watching world go by over stable door a few days ago.

I stand by my decision of stabling him until he settled and now have a stronger bond with him than ever. Vital factor. I called his name 50m from field and he answered, by the time I reached field he was waiting. He was calm, polite and we had some fun.

I have no illusions he is 'fixed' but each step at a time. Our future is bright but we will have our off days.

Thanks again for not being judgemental regarding a situation you have no firsthand experience with and supporting what I am aiming for.
 
Patterdale said:
12 days to go from, in your words, a 'neurotic' horse who 'rears, bolts, box walks, frantically paces the field,' who can only be handled bitted and with a chain, and whom previous professionals have failed to do anything with, to a sedate, chilled, happy, cooperative and relaxed horse who walks out nicely after 12 days in the box, has completely given up his neurotic box walking ways, and is calm and polite to handle, is pretty immediate and magical in my view.
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No previous Professionals had him under their care (apart from the vet practice that performed surgery). As I expressed in a previous post, I was very particular as to whom I chose to send him to. I took advice from many, but no suggestions were given that had not already been tried and tested, to no avail.

It just goes to show that I sent him to the right person and that their training ethics worked. This is not what they would chose to do with any/every horse in their care but they clearly had the knowledge to provide for extreme cases.

Edited: 'walks out nicely' is not accurate. Considerably well behaved for a 3 yr old (having spent 12 day in stable then led out with tractors going and horses racing round field) is more appropriate.
 
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I can easily envisage that a horse with the kind of personality which feels it is responsible for the safety of the herd could become increasingly stressed over time. Especially after a traumatic event like surgery, which proved to it for the first time that it was completely unable to protect itself or anyone else.

I can also see that it would calm that horse down to remove it from any need to protect itself, or anyone else, by stabling it full time.

The OP has sought advice when she needed it. Advice which has so far achieved a good result, and also a good deal of scorn, sarcasm and criticism.

Well done for being open minded about what might help your horse OP. The results are all that matter, forget the rest.
 
Illusion100 said:
No sudden 180 to being completely sedate. Stable environment was enriched with activities such as apple bobbing in water bucket, slices of apples/carrots hidden in haynets tied in different areas of stable, salt lick on wall, mineral lick on floor, stable mirror, grooming, practising having bridle taken on and off, groundwork in stable, Magnotherapy, Microcurrent Therapy and a combination of calming herbs along with walks around the yard with a calm companion horse. He also had a constant next door neighbour during day and lots of company at night. Had farrier trim him, dentist check teeth and vet check.

His particular favourites were picking out the next grooming brush and helping me shake out the straw
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If you had said this in the first place I think people would have been less hard on you (I for one would have). You made it sound like he was being locked away until he had calmed down. Distraction and enrichment techniques are brilliant for getting youngster used to being stabled :) Personally I wouldn't have stabled 24/7 but introduced it more gradually but I guess trainers are after quick results so compromises have to be made.

Good luck with the backing :) it's my favourite thing with horses - nothing quite beats the feeling of the first sit!
 
Fides said:
If you had said this in the first place I think people would have been less hard on you (I for one would have). You made it sound like he was being locked away until he had calmed down. Distraction and enrichment techniques are brilliant for getting youngster used to being stabled :) Personally I wouldn't have stabled 24/7 but introduced it more gradually but I guess trainers are after quick results so compromises have to be made.

Good luck with the backing :) it's my favourite thing with horses - nothing quite beats the feeling of the first sit!
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In hindsight I realise I had just had a (another!) very trying day with him and wanted to know how others coped with such without going mad. He had previous winter (approx. Nov to March out in day and stabled at night, introduced to stable slowly initially, fed in stable etc), he just got worse regardless of a solid routine over many months.

Finally, got given the name of highly recommended Trainer, spoke at length, visited yard, watched like a hawk at everything they did and made my decision based on their obvious capacity and ability.

I had no desire for a 'quick fix' and have him delivered back to me. I do not believe such a thing exists.

Yes! I am extremely jealous that I will not be the 1st one to sit on him. You are absolutely right, nothing beats that feeling.
 
cptrayes said:
I can easily envisage that a horse with the kind of personality which feels it is responsible for the safety of the herd could become increasingly stressed over time. Especially after a traumatic event like surgery, which proved to it for the first time that it was completely unable to protect itself or anyone else.

I can also see that it would calm that horse down to remove it from any need to protect itself, or anyone else, by stabling it full time.

The OP has sought advice when she needed it. Advice which has so far achieved a good result, and also a good deal of scorn, sarcasm and criticism.

Well done for being open minded about what might help your horse OP. The results are all that matter, forget the rest.
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Thanks, I feel turned inside out to do my best for him and am very happy with his progress so far. I do not expect an 'easy' road ahead but truly feel he will improve in leaps and bounds.....hopefully not with me attached though!

Thank you for being understanding. Your POV gives wonderful insight and knowledge.
 
Spent the last 40 mins or so reading this thread... I have nothing to add as I have no experience of youngsters. Just wanted to say it was a very interesting read, and I hope things continue to go well for you and your boy OP
 
Fides said:
Routine works...

Stabling a horse for 12 days, that is highly stressed is cruel IMO. We are living in an enlightened equine society and I cannot understand why outdated and quite barbaric practices are still being practice and even recommended...
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You seem to just want an argument. Arguing is an outdated and quite barbaric practice but you seem quite happy to do it.
 
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Well, he's started his in at night and out in day routine tonight. Walked in very well from field (with companion horse) past the giddy cattle and the helpful person in a tractor that turned engine on just as we were passing. Huge improvement since the last time he was led out to field a couple of days ago.

Good to take bridle on and off. Was unsettled in stable initially but when I came back to check 10 mins later he was just munching hay over door. Polite to have rugs changed and quick groom.

Groundwork sessions start again in morning.

Still a lot of work ahead and many things to improve on but overall absolutely chuffed at his improvement in 2 weeks.

He certainly earned his extra carrots today! :)
 
Really great news onwards and upwards .
Personally I always feel it's best to deal with issues like this rather than turn the horse away and hope it goes away .
You have been through this together and it will put you on a good footing when real work starts .
If possible keep changing his companion so he does not get too attached .
 
Just goes to show that there are often more than one road to success. I hope he has a settled and happy future now he has calmed down a bit
 
Goldenstar said:
Really great news onwards and upwards .
Personally I always feel it's best to deal with issues like this rather than turn the horse away and hope it goes away .
You have been through this together and it will put you on a good footing when real work starts .
If possible keep changing his companion so he does not get too attached .
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Thanks, I also really feel that for us to have a 'team' mentality will be so beneficial for the future.

Was thinking about swopping companion horses but feel a little unsure about it. I kept swopping companion horses last winter and on one occasion one of the normally calm horses spooked, my lad bolted and I was flung into a fence post. I understand swapping them would be ideal but am slightly put off! Current companion horse spooks by casually turning an ear and then back to usual indifference!

Maybe once we get a few groundwork sessions in I will use other horses again. It will be a good lesson for him to learn that even if the other horse reacts, he must be attentive to me. Just not quite sure we are there yet!
 
While I don't think I would have gone down the path you have taken with your boy I would like to say that I have a great deal of respect for you and admire your determination to make things right for your horse.
I wish you both luck and will keep an eye out for updates :)
 
SatansLittleHelper said:
While I don't think I would have gone down the path you have taken with your boy I would like to say that I have a great deal of respect for you and admire your determination to make things right for your horse.
I wish you both luck and will keep an eye out for updates :)
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Thank you, much appreciated. I will admit that this is not the route I wanted for him but nonetheless, it seems to work when everything else failed.

Hopefully any new thread about him will positive!
 
Hi all, sorry to drag up my thread again but I am just so happy right now!!!! :) :) :)

The horse in question is back off to Trainer for backing and is doing fab!

Trainer is delighted, he's working beautifully, very responsive and coping very well. He's 2 weeks in, wasn't bothered about saddle and being a star!

Much more confident and relaxed. Trainer reported he's a different horse.

I just feel so happy and proud......and probably the wine has made me gushy! :D
 
Illusion100 said:
Hi all, sorry to drag up my thread again but I am just so happy right now!!!! :) :) :)

The horse in question is back off to Trainer for backing and is doing fab!

Trainer is delighted, he's working beautifully, very responsive and coping very well. He's 2 weeks in, wasn't bothered about saddle and being a star!

Much more confident and relaxed. Trainer reported he's a different horse.

I just feel so happy and proud......and probably the wine has made me gushy! :D
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So pleased for you.
 
katpower said:
I'm also voting for chucking him out for a while. Put him in a herd and let him just be a horse for a few months. He's young, he's traumatised - he needs to relax, unwind and psychologically detox.
A herd environment did wonders for my rescue - he's a different horse now.
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this, let him relax and find his feet, my 3 yr old cob had a huge fright just after he came to us, took him back to basics, but a year on, he is just coming right and he is in a herd situation with a nanny mare and an old uncle he dotes on, but he was started badly and when we went to view, visibly trembled when his tack came out, I have all the time in the world to take this lad slowly
 
flirtygerty said:
this, let him relax and find his feet, my 3 yr old cob had a huge fright just after he came to us, took him back to basics, but a year on, he is just coming right and he is in a herd situation with a nanny mare and an old uncle he dotes on, but he was started badly and when we went to view, visibly trembled when his tack came out, I have all the time in the world to take this lad slowly
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Hi, it's been quite a while since I originally posted this thread (about 7 months ago). Horse has made huge progress within this time and was ready to further his education. So far he's been just fab and Trainer says he's like a different horse.

Sorry to hear your cob had a fright and well done for taking things slow.

Mine is 4 1/2 now and just had a saddle on for the first time a few days ago. Didn't bat an eyelid and working beautifully, so I'm just so proud! Its taken over 3 years for him to recover from his trauma and is in the hands of an excellent Trainer who is delighted with him.
 
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