German shepherds and sloping backs

RubysGold said:
Have just read some of the page about CDRM. Doesnt the fact it affects the spine and mostly GSD's prove that its the shape of their back causing an issue?
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Correlation doesn't equal causation - I think I'm right in saying that there is no known cause, however there may be an autoimmune link. I'm not sure if the nerves affected by CDRM act any differently depending on spine shape, but wouldn't have thought so. I'm interested now! Off to do some more research :)
 
Thanks CC
Is the GSD really only just over 100 year old, how did they come around?

Your dogs don't look so bad CC, but the one at top of this page has a very noticeable slope. However I now know where you are coming from :)

Thank you CC (and others for your comments too)
 
RubysGold said:
Have just read some of the page about CDRM. Doesnt the fact it affects the spine and mostly GSD's prove that its the shape of their back causing an issue?
Click to expand...

As I know, it comes from the actual brain attacks the NERVES in the spine, not the skeleton.
Two of our recent five have had it.
It can also be present in labradors, collies, golden retrievers.
I would love to say it is more common in GSDs because they are more numerous, but I don't know if that would be correct or not.

Have a look at this thread:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=371633
Particularly Harkback's posts.
 
I have held back for as long as I possibly could, but I can't anymore, here are some gratuitous pics of the (other) Dizzy one:


Dizzy1-1.jpg



DizzyBettySomersetbeach1-1.jpg


:D :D :D
 
RubysGold said:
Thanks CC
Is the GSD really only just over 100 year old, how did they come around?

Your dogs don't look so bad CC, but the one at top of this page has a very noticeable slope. However I now know where you are coming from :)

Thank you CC (and others for your comments too)
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Because he is being made to stand like that. Just as CC showed. If he was stood with "normally" he would look much more straight backed.
 
Lol Kirtsyhen, sorry, I stole her haha

Booboos: Dizzy looks "normal", lol, her back seems straighter.
But I can see what you mean now you say that Katielou :)
 
Booboos, LOVE that picture of Dizzy running, he looks awesome!!

RubysGold, can you not see that Dizzy has a slight slope from his loin to his tail and if he were stacked with his back legs out it would become much more pronouced?
 
CaveCanem said:
Thank God you're here RB, I was getting bored of myself :p
Well done on the 1st :D
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Why thank you :o I am sat in the back of my car with laptop awaiting the mutts finishing their food so I'm not going to be able to contribute much:rolleyes: None of my dogs have bums on the floor ... some slope more than others and depending on how I stand them depends on how sloped they look. The breed is 100% influenced by germany, I have just bred a girl with an import from germany but he isn't extreme either.
I think when you look at some pictures of germanic gsd's by say Urma then people tend to think the dog walks round stretched out but its just how the handler stands them for photo's.

With regards to the KC the gsd breed clubs are now doing there own shows because they are disgusted that the KC would allow a dog with a hip score of 99 to be bred and they will happily register the pups and if they are an accredited bredder will even let them advertise on the kc site !!!

If I wanted to be KC accredited then I just pay my money, but its poinntless so I don't.

Ps all my dogsd are hip and elbow scored and my stud hemophilia tested.
 
RubysGold said:
Booboos: Dizzy looks "normal", lol, her back seems straighter.
But I can see what you mean now you say that Katielou :)
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He he he, it's a boy! Named Dizzy because when he was younger he would chase his tail until he got dizzy and fell over.

He's standing au naturel though because he's never been shown and hasn't been taught to present for a judge. In the second pick you can see how flexible his back end is and how it can really tuck under (at least that was the excuse I gave myself for posting it!!! :D)
 
Ohhh, now you mention it.
I can see that if you move the legs back it would be more pronounced. I noticed a very slight slope on the first pic. But until you mentioned it, I didnt think about it.

Oops sorry Booboos, he is lovely
 
Bloomin heck, this thread has grown in my absence. Sorry to abandon you CC, son and his percussion practice!
Just to pick up on a few points in the previous posts, yeh booboos, my mum bred in partnership with the lady who had the Velindre affix for quite a few years. They went their separate ways when mum favoured the german lines and the lady with Velindre favoured the english,but they remained best of friends . If there is anything in Dizzys pedigree with the affix Velindre-Gorsefield that was jointly bred with mum.
Re hips, I have used bitches with scores in the low teens (always below breed average) on a couple of occasions,I used dogs with single figure scores. First time had 2 scored from the litter, both better than their dam, second litter was out of my wonderful Chaka, who had a score of 12, used a dog with a score of 5, the bitch I sold scored 8, the one I kept (Buffy) scored 38:(. She will be 10 in September and although she is a bit of a wreck (eyesight problems and damaged spine, probably caused by falling down a land drain as a result of the bad eyes) her hips don't actually bother her.
Re that infamous Crufts carpet, I twice competed in agility at Crufts, manyt of the dogs struggled terribly on it, it really does not help movement. If a light dog like a collie has a problem is it any wonder dogs with powerful hind movement find it hard, although I do agree that perhaps prior training with Lagos to get him to gait on a loose lead might have helped.
And CDRM is a neurological condition, can be compared to MS, it affects the nerves that control the spine and hind legs, rather than the spine itself.

Ets. Booboos, Dizzy has a real "Velindre" head in that photo. I wish I had some photos of mums dogs that I could post, sadly we discovered on her death that nearly all her photos were missing, presumably destroyed, a sad result of her dementia.:(
 
Here is our bitch from old English lines (by Spartacist of Hendrawen) who had CDRM aged 10-12 - no sign of a spine deformity there! - she won a RCC under Dr Willis and would have taken the ticket had she been older, she came out of the junior class.
Photo taken mid to late 70s.
P1020164.jpg


And for MM and BB :D
P1020168.jpg

Readers of Joyce Stranger will recognise the female on the right.....
P1020169.jpg


MM you have to come visit and sit in a big pile of handbooks all day :D
 
Blimey CC, real blast from the past. The top pages show quite well how Jess was going more English and mum more germanic. Balta was a lovely type of dog for the day, though sadly his bitch line was dodgy. And dear Shad (Chippy) was actually windy as a coot.:o
 
We have 2 german shepherds, both from rescue. One is the good old fashion
square type nice movement straight backed. the other is sloping and when we
first had him he was only 7 months old and his hocks were nearly touching the
ground when he walked, he buckled when he moved, really bad..but as he has grown and developed his legs and hocks are stronger and he moves better, but he still has an arched back and his tail still drags the ground sometimes....but we love him.
 
Ah, a new member of the GSD Mafia. Welcome. Please post pics :D
Sand work and swimming are both excellent for building muscle on the hindquarters if you think your boy still needs work :)
 
Just poped in to ask a small question re backs, what about bannana backed GSD, i used to see a lot of dogs like this, but not anymore, now that can't be good conformation, can it??
Would that be English or german breeding ?
 
You mean the ones that dip under between the withers ? They would be English lines.
Although that's what the English people called the German dogs, banana backs, depends what way you hold the banana, I suppose....they're the ones I would say are least likely to be able to do a day's work. Although I am sure some were capable.

If I may hark back to bygone days, looking through some of those old handbooks, kennels like Glenvoca and Brittas from the early days - dogs bred from those very early German imports, there are multiple dogs of that breeding who were English, Irish and Obedience Champions - and I mean, the same dogs having all three titles.
There are pics of Mrs Barringtons international champions from 'Brittas' herding sheep and cattle on her property.
Be nice if we could get back to that multi-purpose standard with dogs bred here in the UK.

ETA - if you do mean the bananas as in the roached backs, when the German dogs first started to become fashionable, some people here got the dogs the Germans didn't want, ie not the best examples, a lot of people thought German meant 'skinny' or 'roached back',
I remember my mother sent a bitch out of the ring because you could see all it's ribs and spine.
However there is a lot more knowledge (and money, to buy in the good dogs!) about now.
 
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More like a roach back, i supose, almost like someone had got hold of the spine in the middle, and pulled it up, they always looked uncomfortable, but as i say i hav'nt seen one for years.
 
I remember someone saying to me , that they were german lines, he had a lovely chunky chap, but was a bit like me, loved the breed, but did'nt have much knowledge about breeding, as such.
My thoughts were, that as it is a German breed, surely the germans would'nt breed something that, to me, loked inferier (SP).
 
Sorry folks I just don`t buy the Cruft`s slippy carpet stuff..been on it many times,niether me nor my dogs have ever had the remotest problem with it.The original GSD way back looked almost like the modern working type Malinois,and for powerhouse speed and intelligence I`ll go with them ,thanks. I was gob smacked by Lagos in the big ring,instead of being capable of walking slowly when asked it had it`s back bent round and under it like a rabbit. Very very abnormal in a canine ,whatever breed it is.After all,that poor peke a few years back was "normal" to it`s breeders..which is a joke to the rest of us.Think it is all a bit like the Emperor`s new clothes.
 
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