Golden button challenge

Much preferred watching the chestnut to the grey on the Youtube video.

Going looks horrendous in places but I don't hunt anymore so I guess I'm soft! This is something I would've loved 10 years ago but now; not a chance. No way would I risk my horses (or myself). Just keeping them sound eventing is challenge enough. Would I go and watch? Probably not..
 
popsdosh said:
Yes I suppose they were all beaten with whips and spurred. Get real ! You know most of the riders I doubt had to push their horses on at all probably had more issues holding them at least in the early part of the race.
Click to expand...

possibly has more to do with the herd mentality, if everyone runs there must be a reason and the only way to stay safe is to run with them
 
I'm not sure what I think, and heart attacks are a complicated one.

The recorded number (granted possibly higher) of deaths in the omak suicide race (down a 62 degree hill then into a river in washington state) is 23 over the last 25 years.- they have numerous heats then a final so fewer horses that run more times. Arguably I find that race a lot more shocking and painful to watch but from that maybe it isn't any worse. Given it was run on Longdon 'marsh' it presumably could be predicted to be deep going??
 
One horse died of a heart attack at the finish - that horse was a hugely experienced eventer and a seasoned hunter. He died doing what he loved and the horse was expertly prepared for the race and the rider was very very experienced. A tragic event, but no ones fault. Plus, if any horses did break legs etc. they can just as easily break a leg in a field on turnout or in an arena etc.

I would love to do that race - it looks awesome!

And tbh, as much as I love horses, I am much more saddened by the death of an eventer yesterday during cross-country at an event in Spain :(
 
only_me said:
Plus, if any horses did break legs etc. they can just as easily break a leg in a field on turnout or in an arena etc.
Click to expand...

Do you think that is actually true, just as easily? they might but I should think racing in general makes it statistically more likely!
 
ester said:
Do you think that is actually true, just as easily? they might but I should think racing in general makes it statistically more likely!
Click to expand...

Yes, I do. A horse could be galloping down a hill in their field, slip, fall and break their leg. A horse could be kicked by another standing at the gate in the field. A horse could get caught up in tape, panic and break it's leg. It may Happen less often than in racing but could happen just as easily - accidents happen.
 
Yes, someone local to me lost his lovely horse through a kick in the field only last week :(



Keep having to edit 'cause my keyboard appears to only be producing half the letters I press :mad:
 
Last edited:
I guess I was taking the statistical view of just as easily. ie statistically less likely (ie as you said happens less often) does not mean just as easily to me because the risk is higher.
 
ester said:
I guess I was taking the statistical view of just as easily. ie statistically less likely (ie as you said happens less often) does not mean just as easily to me because the risk is higher.
Click to expand...

I would disagree about the risk being higher. You hear about incidents like this as it a high profile event ,you dont here about the common things that happen at home because they are not seen as worth the publicity.
 
The rider (previously known as WorMy on HHO) whose horse died of a heart attack at the race yesterday has contacted me and asked me to post this on her behalf:

"Just want to say a to a huge thank you to the Ledbury hunt for organising the Golden Button today - it was a huge task and immensely well executed. With events like the button there will always be risks but everyone involved knows that and it comes with the game. No different to eventing or racing or show jumping or any other equine pursuit.

I had a fantastic ride around on my superstar ex advanced eventer - he flew everything and loved every second. No one can doubt his fitness as he probably finished more full of running than any other horse there that day - you should have seen him gallop up the last hill and wing the final fence - I couldnt pull him up!!!! But as some of you are aware I sadly lost my superstar Georgie from a heart attack 5 or so minutes after he completed the course...but these things happen - if your times up your times up - and in my opinion no better way to go - he was an old boy and had a great life and I'm delighted he went out on a high doing what he loved.
As you can see from the following pics ( https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd...._=1435499303_55c761f4cc32e3a4e58a586e51586843 ) he absolutely loved the game and was smiling with pricked ears posing for the camera literally seconds before he passed away.

The ledbury hunt dealt with the situation as quickly and professionally as they could in the circumstances and we could not be more grateful and I hope that you will all join me in raising a glass tonight to the most outstanding horse and character I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. My one and only Georgiepone ❤"

imagejpg1_zpsc247f411.jpg


WorMy.
 
This is shocking! You can try and weasel around it by saying worse things happen to other horses but this is easily on a par with that endurance horse with two broken legs. I don't know how we can criticise the uae after this.

"Oh they loved it". I love driving fast in my car- doesn't mean I should!

" oh they knew the risks" they obviously have no judgement! Who cares about the cost eh- plenty of other horses.

What a shameful episode in British equestrian sport.

And how dare people try and brush it off as just one of those things oh you can break a leg in the field you know. Truly indefensible that a bunch of ill disciplined hooray Henrys can do that to their beasts. And don't tell me they're professional eventers as though that makes it OK.

I actually feel ashamed.
 
Thanks for posting the above. He certainly looks a happy horse, it's always sad to lose them, no matter what the circumstances. It sounds as though he had a lovely life and went out on a high. Commiserations to his owner who I am sure cared about him very much!
Edited to add by 'above' I mean only me's post - not the subsequent tosh.
 
Rapidash said:
This is shocking! You can try and weasel around it by saying worse things happen to other horses but this is easily on a par with that endurance horse with two broken legs. I don't know how we can criticise the uae after this.

"Oh they loved it". I love driving fast in my car- doesn't mean I should!

" oh they knew the risks" they obviously have no judgement! Who cares about the cost eh- plenty of other horses.

What a shameful episode in British equestrian sport.

And how dare people try and brush it off as just one of those things oh you can break a leg in the field you know. Truly indefensible that a bunch of ill disciplined hooray Henrys can do that to their beasts. And don't tell me they're professional eventers as though that makes it OK.

I actually feel ashamed.
Click to expand...

Glad to see you aren't bringing any inverted snobbery into this discussion about horses welfare!
 
Rapidash said:
This is shocking! You can try and weasel around it by saying worse things happen to other horses but this is easily on a par with that endurance horse with two broken legs. I don't know how we can criticise the uae after this.

"Oh they loved it". I love driving fast in my car- doesn't mean I should!

" oh they knew the risks" they obviously have no judgement! Who cares about the cost eh- plenty of other horses.

What a shameful episode in British equestrian sport.

And how dare people try and brush it off as just one of those things oh you can break a leg in the field you know. Truly indefensible that a bunch of ill disciplined hooray Henrys can do that to their beasts. And don't tell me they're professional eventers as though that makes it OK.

I actually feel ashamed.
Click to expand...

What a load of bull!!
 
Accidents can and do happen, heart attack can and does take anyone at any time. the risk of serious injury is increased with and increase in speed and fatigue. obviously fitness and preparation reduces this to some extent. poor going increases exertion to a huge extent (ever tried running across a ploughed field?).

the event is obviously setup to test both horse and rider and we all have our limits as to what we view as a fair/reasonable test, for me an event in which so many fall or are injured (I am not counting the heart attack as that could happen any time) is a test too far. would I feel happier if there was an entry standard?possibly as in all likely hood it would reduce falls/injuries and deaths.Would I gallop over that sort of ground? No I value myself and any horse I am riding too greatly to do that, but I do hack on the roads a few times per week and many riders don't as they feel it is not safe to do so...
 
Poor WorMy.. such a lovely horse but these things do happen.. its like the grand national, everyone has for an against arguments for that, its just horse sports.
Does anyone know how the infamous girl who rides a chestnut sidesaddle got on?
 
woodlandswow said:
Poor WorMy.. such a lovely horse but these things do happen.. its like the grand national, everyone has for an against arguments for that, its just horse sports.
Does anyone know how the infamous girl who rides a chestnut sidesaddle got on?
Click to expand...


I really feel for wormy and send her my heartfelt condolences.

I started this thread as I had read some stuff on fb about the GBC and wanted to know more....am well aware that fb isn't the umm well most balanced of accounts! I think the thing that jumps out at me on this is that there is no qualifying criteria....it seems that there are a proportion of starters who like Wormy, are professionals and are fully aware of the dangers, and have prepared both themselves and their horses properly....afterall it sounds a bit more hardcore than something like the tim carter challenge for instance. These riders are more than capable of keeping themselves and others out of danger and will have horses that are fit enough to compete. If something tragic happens to one of these riders, it is still awful obviously but I feel it is more like a professional racing situation- all are prepared and sometimes your luck is just up! (Happens to good horses eventing too). I worry about the fact that any old person with a few guts and a horse that they have jumped a few hedges on can take part. I know someone on fb who seemed super keen on taking part (maybe just talk) and knowing this person well, it certainly wouldn't have been a safe thing for her to do, and I think it's these people who endanger others too.....I think with my limited knowledge I would like to see qualifying criteria.

Also on another note, I echo what someone else says about being very saddened to hear about the eventer who lost their life yesterday too.
 
I think it's one of those things... if you are someone who is really into your hunting you love this kind of stuff.

If you aren't... you look at it and think it's pretty brutal.

I'm in the latter camp - and as someone that works in racing and has ridden point to point, but has fallen out of love with 'amateur racing'!

Don't forget that not only have quite a few horses lost their lives, plenty will be broken down after the days events too... there is something about a certain part of the hunting fraternity who consider their horses to be a means to an end which doesn't lie easy with me...
 
I was there as a spectator and know some of the people involved in the organisation. Just to address a couple of points raised above, in no particular order:

1. Size of field......the field was actually smaller than what you could expect on a Saturday meet of any of the 'top' Shires packs, and on a good day the action was little different.
2. No qualification criteria for entry......there is no criteria for entry when hunting with the Ledbury (over whose land the event ran), or any other hunt for that matter. Common sense is what prevails out hunting and also, I believe, here when you look at the numbers that withdrew after walking the course. Whether this was due to the state of the going, the size of the fences, feeling a bit chicken and having 'talked the talk' but not being able to 'walk the walk', who cares. Those people decided it wasn't for them or their horse on this occasion, so hats off to them for making that call. As an aside, one of the fallers had also won the event on former occasions so sometimes it's just down to Lord Luck not being on your side.
3. Distance and fitness of horses.............the distance was no more than a good old fashioned point, so should not have been a problem to those properly prepared, ridden considerately, or indeed pulled up by those aware of a tired horse. The event has run often enough for people to know what to expect.
4. Horse deaths.......okay, an emotional one and without the full facts no-one can comment....however, all I will say is that horses do die out hunting and eventing, as well as in other circumstances, of heart attacks; sadly, I've had one collapse under me in the field and it ain't nice but it was an ex-eventer and he loved his hunting, he knew nothing of what was happening after about 20 seconds, and it was probably only that long because of the adrenaline pumping through his body. There are plenty worse ways to go and if all I feel when I die is 20 secs of agony/consternation or whatever I will be happy as it will be a lot better than how either of my parents died.
5. Horses are expendable.....horses in former times were viewed as animals of work; over the years this has changed and they have become pets. The 'expendable' view is probably more prevalent in racing/hunting/point-to-pointing where the horse has a very specific role to fulfill than in the riding club circle of guys. Am not saying that either is right or wrong.......there's probably a happy medium between the two! :) However, just because a horse is pampered and does ****** all doesn't mean to say it's happy! And before anyone takes offence, I am thinking specifically of my five year old that has been turned away for the last four months and is bored stupid and wants to work/hunt/jump etc etc. How do I know this? He jumps into the yard, follows horses on exercise up the drive and every time someone goes in the field to catch/turn out he comes racing up going 'is it my turn?', 'do you want me?' And yes, he gets brought in, groomed, fed, has shelter and is seen to every day, but WANTS to work......IMO.

My commiserations to the poster that lost her ex-eventer.
 
popsdosh said:
I think you should!!!!

How on earth can you compare this to the endurance horse just shows a lack of understanding and prejudice.
Click to expand...

OK, write me a couple of paragraphs explaining why and I'll read them with an open mind.

I speak my mind, and I speak it as a hunt supporter, as a grand national supporter.

To me, one horse dead is sad, two a tragedy, three unlucky but four? Surely then there must be something wrong with the race.

I could turn around now and say poor Bundy died doing what he loved, that he wouldn't do it if he didn't want to, that horses break a leg out hacking or in the field. But I think that's irrelevant because he was ridden into the ground. A horse that collapsed 5 minutes after a race was asked to do a race it was not capable of doing whether the owner meant well or not.

I saw it at a similar event where experienced riders did not pull up when they should have. And the write up in h&h said the same thing.

At least no human was seriously hurt.
 
gunnergundog said:
5. Horses are expendable.....horses in former times were viewed as animals of work; over the years this has changed and they have become pets. The 'expendable' view is probably more prevalent in racing/hunting/point-to-pointing where the horse has a very specific role to fulfill than in the riding club circle of guys. Am not saying that either is right or wrong.......there's probably a happy medium between the two! :) However, just because a horse is pampered and does ****** all doesn't mean to say it's happy! And before anyone takes offence, I am thinking specifically of my five year old that has been turned away for the last four months and is bored stupid and wants to work/hunt/jump etc etc. How do I know this? He jumps into the yard, follows horses on exercise up the drive and every time someone goes in the field to catch/turn out he comes racing up going 'is it my turn?', 'do you want me?' And yes, he gets brought in, groomed, fed, has shelter and is seen to every day, but WANTS to work......IMO.
Click to expand...

You've just offered two extremes as if those are the only realistic options and said "meh, they get hurt". They aren't work animals anymore, we don't rely on them for our lives and livelihoods so that is a false comparison.

Horses, like dogs, cannot be counted on in all circumstances to know their limits. That is exactly what a human is supposed to do. My little mare would try to go to the moon if I asked her to, but that definitely doesn't mean she should or that I should ask! Do some horses like it? I'm sure they do. My horses love trail riding and beg to go out, plenty of horses really love working cows, and I'm quite sure that cross-country is a lot of fun for some, but we owe it to them to take the best care we can. Just because they might get hurt in a field doesn't mean we fail to do our best to horse-proof the fences after all.

Steeplechases are known to be particular dangerous to horses, if there is no minimum requirement for entry the way there is in any other sport then I'd say we've failed not only our own equine partners, but also those who may be ridden by inexperienced people. Willingness is not a substitute for experience or fitness and that's all that's being offered. It's pretty disturbing to hear that there's no similar care taken regarding people who choose to join a hunt.
 
Rapidash said:
This is shocking! You can try and weasel around it by saying worse things happen to other horses but this is easily on a par with that endurance horse with two broken legs. I don't know how we can criticise the uae after this.

"Oh they loved it". I love driving fast in my car- doesn't mean I should!

" oh they knew the risks" they obviously have no judgement! Who cares about the cost eh- plenty of other horses.

What a shameful episode in British equestrian sport.

And how dare people try and brush it off as just one of those things oh you can break a leg in the field you know. Truly indefensible that a bunch of ill disciplined hooray Henrys can do that to their beasts. And don't tell me they're professional eventers as though that makes it OK.

I actually feel ashamed.
Click to expand...

The difference is that the endurance horse broke BOTH front legs as a result of an underlying and IGNORED issue/injury/problem that should have been dealt with rather than continuing until the horse literally broke down. I am quite sure Wormy very much loved her horse and he was not carlessly disposed and replaced. I expect she may get another horse but not without a second thought for him.
 
I should have added that the XC horse who died of a heart attack can happen to any horse, especially those in top condition. It's the injuries or unfit horses that I take issue with.
 
Rapidash said:
OK, write me a couple of paragraphs explaining why and I'll read them with an open mind.

I speak my mind, and I speak it as a hunt supporter, as a grand national supporter.

To me, one horse dead is sad, two a tragedy, three unlucky but four? Surely then there must be something wrong with the race.

I could turn around now and say poor Bundy died doing what he loved, that he wouldn't do it if he didn't want to, that horses break a leg out hacking or in the field. But I think that's irrelevant because he was ridden into the ground. A horse that collapsed 5 minutes after a race was asked to do a race it was not capable of doing whether the owner meant well or not.

I saw it at a similar event where experienced riders did not pull up when they should have. And the write up in h&h said the same thing.

At least no human was seriously hurt.
Click to expand...

Sometimes I think we can just get carried away by several unrelated incidents happening in one event and over react without knowing the truth. I once saw 6 horses lose their lives at Huntingdon at a meting ,but the three meetings after that not one coincidence does come into play sometimes!
Why did you feel you needed to bring class into it as that event is open to anybody not just restricted to the 'hooray Henries' . It is a race from experience where the age of the horses would most likely be higher than in racing so maybe that may be part of the reason. As you know from racing it is not uncommon for horses to drop dead soon after a race but because its out of the way of the public it does not get publicised and you could not say they were not capable of competing.
As for picking on the situation that was mentioned in the thread how can you say that the horse was not capable of doing the race ,there is no evidence that the race actually caused his demise. Certainly to me the picture of him being washed off does not look like a horse that has over exerted themselves.
 
I have no issue with the race, it looks amazing fun and any equine sport is a high risk activity. I know of a horse that quite a few years back, broke it's leg tripping in a prelim dressage test. Yes, I know this is comes pretty high where risk is concerned, but at the higher level of any discipline the competitors are working where the limits are tested . The issue is that people can enter without the experience, skills and fitness from rider or horse; this should be regulated surely! Very sad about the heart attack, thoughts with the owners :( but I think that is just an example of a very unfortunate incident from a well prepared team. Look at Hickstead, couldn't exactly say he was pushed beyond his limit that day,but he suffered the same tragedy. If an accident happens to an unfit horse that's what concerns me, I think I am particularly upset by that thought after watching this video of the Antler Challenge... see 5:54-6:11 and then 6:23-6:31, poor bloody thing was exhausted and the rider kept pushing on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcj8Xib3KuM
 
Hoof_Prints said:
I have no issue with the race, it looks amazing fun and any equine sport is a high risk activity. I know of a horse that quite a few years back, broke it's leg tripping in a prelim dressage test. Yes, I know this is comes pretty high where risk is concerned, but at the higher level of any discipline the competitors are working where the limits are tested . The issue is that people can enter without the experience, skills and fitness from rider or horse; this should be regulated surely! Very sad about the heart attack, thoughts with the owners :( but I think that is just an example of a very unfortunate incident from a well prepared team. Look at Hickstead, couldn't exactly say he was pushed beyond his limit that day,but he suffered the same tragedy. If an accident happens to an unfit horse that's what concerns me, I think I am particularly upset by that thought after watching this video of the Antler Challenge... see 5:54-6:11 and then 6:23-6:31, poor bloody thing was exhausted and the rider kept pushing on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcj8Xib3KuM
Click to expand...

Watching that clip makes me want to vomit. How anyone can push and push their horse like that - they are nothing short of monsters IMO. Just the thought of doing that to my mare breaks my heart, and I'm no fluffy bunny by any means. The human race is despicable at times.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top