P3LH
Well-Known Member
In other countries there are breeders doing this exact cross in quite specific measures and line breeding, to breed ‘retro pugs’
Good crossbreeds
- Thread starter fankino04
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P3LH
Well-Known Member
Several of us often used to muse about outcrossing rough collies to welsh sheepdog types, due to the US projects of various breeders recreating ‘old scotch collies’ (classic rough collies) by breeding to English shepherds, which are similar to welsh in some senses. A breeder I know and admire greatly - who breeds very nice pure and classic style rough collies anyway, has taken on the experiment. The first generation seen here are already looking a lot more like the older style roughs, and bringing in desperately needed new genes too!! I would have one of these
https://www.wicani.co.uk/rags-litter-1-2
Moobli you may like these!!
https://www.wicani.co.uk/rags-litter-1-2
Moobli you may like these!!
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Meredith
riding reluctantly into the sunset
A pretty dreadful photo but the only one I could find of Ted on the web. He was a rescue ‘collie’ of unknown breeding from the North Wales /England border country.
fiwen30
Well-Known Member
Oh wow, those are some beautiful dogs! I’ve always assumed I don’t like pure rough collies due to their extremely fine, pointed faces, and enormous, exaggerated double coats; and that I wouldn’t have a border collie due to their drive and high energy.
Forgive my ignorance, but is a smooth collie a branch of rough collie? I had it in my head that a smooth collie was a short-haired border collie, for some reason?
P3LH
Well-Known Member
Smooth collies are the smooth haired cousins of the rough, a vulnerable native breed - though I don’t know why as they are fab. They haven’t changed with fashion as some roughs have, hence why when one of my rough boys popped up ina. Smooth collie litter he looked as they did sixty odd years ago.
fiwen30
Well-Known Member
That’s very interesting, thank you!
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
I had a smooth collie growing up. Fabulous dog. Was a bit neurotic but I think that might have been partly/mostly down to us and how we functioned as a family at that time. I'd quite like another one but the inbreeding coefficients you tend to get with them being "rare" puts me off a bit. I REALLY like the look if those dogs you linked above luke_H!
Moobli
Well-Known Member
He’s a stunning dog ?
Moobli
Well-Known Member
Me and hubby did toy with the idea of lining his red/white collie bitch with my working line GSD but were never really serious, although as an experiment it would have been interesting.
P3LH
Well-Known Member
Thank you. He is so special and primarily probably the reason I won’t have anymore of the breed - there aren’t any who look or act like him. He has the steady yet sensitive temperament (without being neurotic) I recall of the breed, sensitive without being neurotic. Nothing but calm and wonderful, he basically trained himself and I can’t quite accept he’s eight next month - I hope I have at least double left with him!
Moobli
Well-Known Member
oh wow, yes I do!! Thanks Luke. I’ll follow that experiment with interest.
satinbaze
Well-Known Member
In the days before designer crosses there were a number of people in working trials and obedience who did collie x Goldie cross. They were very successful and many were made into champions. The affixes that come to mind are Coltriever, Retcol, Melnola, Skipaway. There have also been a few litters of collie x GSD that are specifically bred for working trials.
Of course Guide dogs also breed a number of specific crosses. As far as I know They only ever do first generation crosses so parents are always pure bred.
Of course Guide dogs also breed a number of specific crosses. As far as I know They only ever do first generation crosses so parents are always pure bred.
Moobli
Well-Known Member
We have working beardie x border collies and they’re great. High energy and workaholics but with a clearer head than some pure border collies. Great characters.
I’m tempted by the idea of breeding my working line GSD bitch (dependent on health test results) to a GSD x Dutch shepherd I have my eye on in future, with the idea of increasing athleticism, agility, drive and with hoped for hybrid vigour. I need to do a lot more research first though.
I’m tempted by the idea of breeding my working line GSD bitch (dependent on health test results) to a GSD x Dutch shepherd I have my eye on in future, with the idea of increasing athleticism, agility, drive and with hoped for hybrid vigour. I need to do a lot more research first though.
maisie06
Well-Known Member
They all need outcrossing or I hate to say it never being bred again and allowed to go extinct, 90% of the flat faced dogs have a miserable life.
wispagold
Well-Known Member
My mum has a JRT x collie. He was very much the result of a mistake! He was born at the yard where we had our horses on livery at the time. The JRT bitch had been sent to a JRT stud dog. All the puppies were sold as JRT and then after a few weeks people started to comment that the puppies looked a bit odd. Turns out the livery owners FIL had accidently let the collie cattle dog in with the both the yard owners pet dogs, the JRT and a GSD. Both were in heat and he caught both of them!
Archie came to us at a year old and we were his 4th home, firstly due to a marriage breakdown and then when he was rehomed to someone with a standard poodle bitch and they kept running off together. He is 13 now and showing his age. He has arthritis in his hips and back legs. But still very happy and enjoying life at a slower pace. He has been a brilliant dog, much more collie like in his behaviour than terrier. Don't we think we have another like him.
Archie came to us at a year old and we were his 4th home, firstly due to a marriage breakdown and then when he was rehomed to someone with a standard poodle bitch and they kept running off together. He is 13 now and showing his age. He has arthritis in his hips and back legs. But still very happy and enjoying life at a slower pace. He has been a brilliant dog, much more collie like in his behaviour than terrier. Don't we think we have another like him.
Indy
Well-Known Member
Indy
Well-Known Member
Clodagh, that's my Kelpie Collie x above. There's been a lot of blood, sweat and swearing getting that picture up.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
handsome boy
Indy
Well-Known Member
thank you, he is quite a striking dog in real life
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Holsaskew
Member
Excuse the laundry pile but this is my 6 month beddyxwhippet. He's just a delight, super friendly, full of beans but also appreciates a Sunday lie in. Gets on so well with my neurotic BT, she's really enjoying the company. My Mum is super jealous, I think if there were more left in the litter we'd have come home with more ?
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nellietinker
Well-Known Member
Errin Paddywack
Well-Known Member
The Skipaway prefix belongs to a friend of mine. She had some lovely dogs but stopped breeding years ago.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
And he is gorgeous! Thank you. I will try to upload an old pic tomorrow.
DressageCob
Well-Known Member
Lurchers are great dogs.
I like the idea of introducing fresh breeds to improve the more unhealthy/exaggerated ones, such as pugs and English bulldogs. I knew a bulldog x staffie that just looked like a better proportioned bulldog. He was a really nice dog. I met a pug x Manchester terrier that was nice, and another pug x smooth fox terrier.
my main objection to many cross breeds is the stupid names - all the poos, jugs, doodles etc. That and the fact that people think crossing breeds makes them immune to all health or behavioural issues in either separate breed.
I like the idea of introducing fresh breeds to improve the more unhealthy/exaggerated ones, such as pugs and English bulldogs. I knew a bulldog x staffie that just looked like a better proportioned bulldog. He was a really nice dog. I met a pug x Manchester terrier that was nice, and another pug x smooth fox terrier.
my main objection to many cross breeds is the stupid names - all the poos, jugs, doodles etc. That and the fact that people think crossing breeds makes them immune to all health or behavioural issues in either separate breed.
LadyGascoyne
Well-Known Member
I’m so tempted to have a litter by my South African-bred border collie.
He’s from two fantastic working parents, has the loveliest nature and has had no soundness of health issues. He’s not neurotic either, which is rare.
If crossed with a nice UK bc, there would be some fresh blood in the mix and hopefully some of his soundness and easy nature might be passed down.
Downsides are that he’s 12 so he’s old. I’d need to find someone with a nice bitch who wasn’t intent on having registered purebreds, and I’m not sure if there is a market for unreg ones that I’d trust. I’d want to keep 2 or 3 but wouldn’t have more than 3.
He’s from two fantastic working parents, has the loveliest nature and has had no soundness of health issues. He’s not neurotic either, which is rare.
If crossed with a nice UK bc, there would be some fresh blood in the mix and hopefully some of his soundness and easy nature might be passed down.
Downsides are that he’s 12 so he’s old. I’d need to find someone with a nice bitch who wasn’t intent on having registered purebreds, and I’m not sure if there is a market for unreg ones that I’d trust. I’d want to keep 2 or 3 but wouldn’t have more than 3.
GSD Woman
Well-Known Member
Crossbreeding for a real reason is marvelous. To churn out idiot dogs for big bucks makes me stabby. Probably 50-75% of the dogs we see at the clinic are "designer" dogs. They tend to be ill mannered and stupid. As well as most of them are matted and have to be sedated to have their ears plucked. I suppose that isn't a bad thing to sedate for ear plucking but if they had been accustomed to handling and grooming from an early age it wouldn't be so traumatic. <-sorry, got off track there.
JJS
Well-Known Member
We’ve had lots of wonderful dogs over the years, including our Lab crosses, Max and Cleo. Max was Lab x German Pointer and Cleo was Labrador x Mastiff. Both lived into ripe old age (15 and 14), despite being large dogs, and they were the most fantastic family pets you could ask for.
They had very different personalities though! Max was incredibly high energy, bright, active, and exuberant, but very destructive as a young dog, whereas Cleo was saintly. Our current Lab is a lot like Max but nothing like Cleo, who was much more similar in personality and temperament to the Old English Mastiff we had. I’d have either cross again.
They had very different personalities though! Max was incredibly high energy, bright, active, and exuberant, but very destructive as a young dog, whereas Cleo was saintly. Our current Lab is a lot like Max but nothing like Cleo, who was much more similar in personality and temperament to the Old English Mastiff we had. I’d have either cross again.
yhanni
Well-Known Member
I once met a 'Wottie' at a rural show up in Yorkshire. A Rottie bitch and a Westie dog!! A mistake but he was absolutely gorgeous - looked like a very, very big terrier! Google him - I'm too much of a technoidiot to attach it. I had a brother and sister Mastiff x Rottie and they were lovely - both lived into their teens and never had a sick day. Madge was very bright but brother Terry was thick as pudding - great guard dogs but perfectly nice to people once properly introduced.
misst
Well-Known Member
OMG just googled that - sweet pictures of the Westie and the Rottie and the pups - my husband would love one. We are terrier people but he does like a "proper" dog and rotties are high on the list. Just adoreable!
P3LH
Well-Known Member
I come back to this thread as I sadly seem to have friends acquiring all manner of strange crosses throughout lockdown. Bred, in my opinion, for no other reason than to line pockets. It honestly saddens me as they’ve, in the main, come from two completely unsuitable breeds and individuals, stuck together.
I feel my earlier posts, all detailing specific cross breeding lines and/or the need for/merits of, cross breeding are quite clear with my stance but to be clearer, I’m strongly against most cross breeding;the fad cross breeding, the thoughtless, the daft name brigade. I do however think that some sensible cross breeding/outcrossing within certain breeds could do a lot of good. And think in some cases certain well known crosses (eg lurchers, in particular bedlington whippets) are worth their weight in gold, and find myself definitely ‘for’ their breeding. Then again these all tend to, generally, breed to some degree of ‘true’ of ‘type’ so can be predictable and therefore able to be matched with owners who are suitable. You compare that, for example, to a Bernese x poodle ( not giving it the stupid marketing name) as someone I know has just purchased - how can anyone tell if the end product is going to be suitable for their circumstances and what they want for a dog? It is a lovely, and very cute pup and will be well loved but...
I think, as with any mating of ANY animal, cross breeding should be done carefully, with a lot of thought, purpose and an end in mind beyond cute puppies to sell via pets4homes.
I feel my earlier posts, all detailing specific cross breeding lines and/or the need for/merits of, cross breeding are quite clear with my stance but to be clearer, I’m strongly against most cross breeding;the fad cross breeding, the thoughtless, the daft name brigade. I do however think that some sensible cross breeding/outcrossing within certain breeds could do a lot of good. And think in some cases certain well known crosses (eg lurchers, in particular bedlington whippets) are worth their weight in gold, and find myself definitely ‘for’ their breeding. Then again these all tend to, generally, breed to some degree of ‘true’ of ‘type’ so can be predictable and therefore able to be matched with owners who are suitable. You compare that, for example, to a Bernese x poodle ( not giving it the stupid marketing name) as someone I know has just purchased - how can anyone tell if the end product is going to be suitable for their circumstances and what they want for a dog? It is a lovely, and very cute pup and will be well loved but...
I think, as with any mating of ANY animal, cross breeding should be done carefully, with a lot of thought, purpose and an end in mind beyond cute puppies to sell via pets4homes.
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