Grand National meeting.

As far as I can see no horses pulled up in GN left in Scottish National but wasn’t expecting any.

My flat horse had heat stroke or heat problem many years ago at Goodwood. I don’t compete him in hot weather even though am sure it’s not similar but if he wasn’t a racehorse with that information in the press or stewards reports I wouldn’t have known
 
Given how much more horses are affected by heat than people are I'm constantly surprised by what people expect of them on days when humans are heading for the shade and knocking back the pimms (other beverages are available). I'd already wondered about making a comment about bottoming horses and how I hoped people were prepared to make shift for a good retirement for a horse that they had quite literally cleaned out to the last drop.
 
Just had a look at the Scottish National entries and I see Mr Incredible is there, be interesting to see how he runs ?
 
I think the problem with heatstroke is that the horses haven't had time to acclimatise, after all, they are descended from Arab horses that thrive in hot countries. If the heat gradually increases then it is possible to get used to it, but if the week before there was still frost on the ground, and then the following week they are running races in high temperatures, that is when problems occur. Aintree were prepared, with a sun sheltered area, fans and lots of cold water.
 
Orangehorse said:
I think the problem with heatstroke is that the horses haven't had time to acclimatise, after all, they are descended from Arab horses that thrive in hot countries. If the heat gradually increases then it is possible to get used to it, but if the week before there was still frost on the ground, and then the following week they are running races in high temperatures, that is when problems occur. Aintree were prepared, with a sun sheltered area, fans and lots of cold water.
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That's only part of it. We are more humid than the Middle East, so the conditions aren't the same. And horses are just less well able to cope with heat than us because of their body mass to surface area ratio - so come the summer, when we are uncomfortable, they are more so, and they have a ton (figuratively) of muscle generating yet more heat too if we expect them to exercise hard. Fine for people to give themselves heatstroke if they must but why should horses have to risk it?
 
humblepie said:
Racing TV on demand which I think is free to view, they have Danny Mullins jockey cam on Meetingofthewaters, lovely pop round.
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not free sadly £30 pm. Sky Racing is free but Racing Tv have a lot of the track so Sky have a lot of international racing but nt irlenad cos Racing tv have the rights to that.
 
ycbm said:
I think it's good that you are concerned Reynold.

And I'm sorry, I've tried not to interfere in this thread which I know was for people who enjoy watching racing, but how can it be right to even be able to write such a thing about a live animal being used for people's entertainment?
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I'm not replying to make any comment about the good or bad of racing, but isn't the truth of the matter that all horses are kept for their owner's or rider's entertainment in the Uk even if just in a field? And those horses which are kept for work purposes in poorer countries quite often have very tough lives indeed. What any of that means I don't know, but I don't think any type of horse sport is justifiable as a "need" or is more worthy or more repugnant depending on how many people watch it or are entertained by it. I like to look at how happy horses are, but that varies from yard to yard. Some of the saddest horses I've seen are those in livery yards, who rarely get exercised or turnout, but that doesn't mean that I'm justifying horse.sport abuse, I'm just thinking aloud!
 
Darcey69 said:
I'm not replying to make any comment about the good or bad of racing, but isn't the truth of the matter that all horses are kept for their owner's or rider's entertainment in the Uk even if just in a field? And those horses which are kept for work purposes in poorer countries quite often have very tough lives indeed. What any of that means I don't know, but I don't think any type of horse sport is justifiable as a "need" or is more worthy or more repugnant depending on how many people watch it or are entertained by it. I like to look at how happy horses are, but that varies from yard to yard. Some of the saddest horses I've seen are those in livery yards, who rarely get exercised or turnout, but that doesn't mean that I'm justifying horse.sport abuse, I'm just thinking aloud!
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I don't think how happy a horse is, is relevant it's a whole other argument. I'm not a fan of any sport where there is a real risk of dying, nor one where an animal is pushed to its absolute limits for 'sport', simply because they don't have a choice.

I don't judge others opinions on the matter though, but that's just mine.
 
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Unless we go down the PETA route and have no domestication of animals then there is always going to be an element of “use” of animals.
It behoves us to ensure that this free from cruelty be it deliberately inflicted or through ignorance or neglect.
Horse racing in itself is not, in my opinion, cruel and much is being done to improve welfare and safety. Yes accidents happen and we have risk assessments, guidance and rules to try and ensure lessons are learnt for the future but I don’t think we should stop doing things because of risk. Agreed animals don’t choose the risks, but they are not being asked to do something unnatural and if they weren’t good at it then they would be moved on to alternative use.
That doesn’t make it less sickening to see falls like BB but risk is a fact of life
 
Gamebird said:
I think that probably times have changed a little, not least that there many many more equine hospitals and clinics than there ised to be. 20 years ago there were only a tony handful, plus the ones at vet schools, now they are everywhere so there is almost always one close to a course.
And I can't speak for UK trainers, but I have know many Irish horses who have had to stay behind in the UK for anything from a few days to a few months, and there has always been a plan.
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JP's Edwulf stayed at TCEH for a very long time and they worked wonders on him.
 
Clodagh said:
If he needs cross tying I’m sure it’s better to spend the money to get him home as slowly and comfortably as possible. Would you rather he went up a lorry ramp than a very low option?
And you can’t have it all ways, that no one cares about the horses and then complain when they go the extra mile for his wellbeing.
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Having looked at the video of him loading, he is moving like a horse with a possible sweeney shoulder injury, he is struggling to lift his forearm and possibly cannot feel too much through his foot at present. The ambulance will enable him to be supported on both sides and not have to climb or go down a steep ramp. His connections have gone the extra mile for him and travelled him safely. Good luck to him, l am sure the physio's and vets will give him everything he needs at home.
 
Gamebird said:
I think that probably times have changed a little, not least that there many many more equine hospitals and clinics than there ised to be. 20 years ago there were only a tony handful, plus the ones at vet schools, now they are everywhere so there is almost always one close to a course.
And I can't speak for UK trainers, but I have know many Irish horses who have had to stay behind in the UK for anything from a few days to a few months, and there has always been a plan.
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You have made me feel so much better about a bloody awful night.\\so glad times have changed .........But have they , the problem was a small trainer budgeting on a shoe string suddenly faced with costs he was hard put to manage. Tell me that's changed? Welfare decisions need to be legislated and enforced or otherwise we will loose the support of our public.
 
Bob notacob said:
You have made me feel so much better about a bloody awful night.\\so glad times have changed .........But have they , the problem was a small trainer budgeting on a shoe string suddenly faced with costs he was hard put to manage. Tell me that's changed? Welfare decisions need to be legislated and enforced or otherwise we will loose the support of our public.
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If you look at the BHA Judicial Panel results you will see that welfare post race is taken seriously - there are a lot of equine welfare officers on raceday behind the scenes who will notice any potential issues or indeed issues. The thing about racing is that it is so visible and accountable.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Having seen the video of a very sore, stiff and rather tottery Broadway Boy loading up for a 150 mile journey I fully stand by my earlier comments that I think that it was too soon after his fall to travel him
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I must say most horses I have known having fallen or injured themselves.
Lay down to rest for a considerable time, shock, it's only natural

To travel him, was brutal, at least rest him over night
 
tristars said:
I must say most horses I have known having fallen or injured themselves.
Lay down to rest for a considerable time, shock, it's only natural

To travel him, was brutal, at least rest him over night
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What a crazy amount of fuss about one horse who did rest over night, travelled the next day and is now back in his own stable where I’m sure he will recover and be fine.
 
Just saw this - so very sad.

I just wish the 10 day ban for his jockey could now be increased to reflect that his actions ended up causing the death of the horse.

Racing authorities are doing their absolute best to make things safe but ultimately once out of the track we have to rely on the jockeys to make the best decisions
 
Clodagh said:
Idk. But I wonder if it could affect his internal organs? 😢
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If it was heatstroke that is quite possible. My sister found her pony in a very distressed state one hot summer. He was in a field with cattle and this was before warble flies were eradicated. Anyone who remembers those days will remember cattle 'gadding', running away from the warble fly. Her best guess was that the cattled had 'gadded' and he had gone with them then got trapped in the middle of them in a little copse. Severely dehydrated when she found him, vet out immediately and then transported to our farm where he could be kept in a cool shed that doors both ends so a nice breeze. We were warned that when his gut started working again later he might colic and he did. Vet was there for hours and finally left after he appeared to quieten. Ok but very drowsy next day but the day after started to colic again and suddenly died. Autopsy showed ruptured aneurysm on the artery that goes into the kidney.
 
Clodagh said:
Idk. But I wonder if it could affect his internal organs? 😢
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Horses are very susceptible to heatstroke and it can quite easily be fatal. They can suffer seizures and, as you say, organ damage.

My horse became seriously dehydrated due to hypovolaemic shock. He had impaction colic, a tremendous thirst, and elevated heartrate of 100. He eventually suffered a couple of seizures and died. Although it was the blood loss that ultimately killed him, it was a very hot day and he had stopped sweating, probably quite some time before we found him.
 
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reynold said:
Just saw this - so very sad.

I just wish the 10 day ban for his jockey could now be increased to reflect that his actions ended up causing the death of the horse.

Racing authorities are doing their absolute best to make things safe but ultimately once out of the track we have to rely on the jockeys to make the best decisions
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Not condoning what he did but I expect he feels as bad as anyone.
 
bonny said:
What a crazy amount of fuss about one horse who did rest over night, travelled the next day and is now back in his own stable where I’m sure he will recover and be fine.
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Not sure what horse you are talking about ????

Baywood bay was travelled by ambulance on the same day and Celebre d'Alllen stayed there and then died at his yard....
 
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