Happy Days For ISH Breeders

Eothain said:
Looks like we're here forever anyway!!!

And no Gadetra, Cruising will never produce a horse as good as or better than himself. Why? He's the best to have ever lived. He's the best of any breed, any discipline, any type, any race, creed or colour. He's the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be!
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Now them's what I call Cruising-coloured spectacles. :cool:
 
rebel mountain said:
i
we might have a tb problem but foreignbreds aren't tb's but if you want a tb horse by master imp golden master is your man he is only s1 unfortunatly
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Yes! Big fan of Golden Master, almost as much as Kings Master, and it's all but impossible to find Prefairy in any Irish pedigrees. :o S1 status wouldn't bother me in the slightest and had plans worked out, he would have made a great match for my Clover Hill mare. Jill Day bought one of his foals at Goresbridge last October so excellent showcase home.

There MAY be another new TB sire arriving in Ireland. ;) If and when it works out - just heard the news today - I'll be standing top of the queue, with at least two broodies in tow. :D
 
Eothain said:
Super, I'm looking forward to some good reading later!

On the point of who will control our sport in the future; I hope that Showjumping Ireland and the Showjumpers Club continue to work hand in hand. I think it's an absolute disgrace that Millstreet is going ahead this year as an unaffiliated show. I for one, won't be there because if I have nothing else, I'll have my honour. Any riders who go, need to check their morals. How dare Millstreet think they are bigger than Showjumping Ireland!
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Simsar can provide the next chapter, I'm just back in 'briefly' to post summat else. ;)

Was thinking more along the lines of course design and three-day-event short-shorter-shorter again formats in the future. After watching the World Cup final courses, wonder would it be possible to somehow get some collie blood as an outcross to breed the next generation of 'agility stakes' showjumpers. How much higher or abstract can showjumping courses get?

Not to mention the fact that riders and grooms must practically have a pharmaceutical background to understand the latest regulations and the vigour of Kim & Aggie to keep feedbuckets scrupulously clean..

And after George Morris' comments about chestnut mares, are those planning to breed showjumpers considering eliminating the ginger gene? :D
 
Paraphrasing but along the lines of 'this is a chestnut mare, chestnut". Which kind of inferred that chestnut mares are extra-sensitive :confused:

The full press conference with McLain and Tim Ober, at which George makes the remarks at the end of, is online, Google it. ;)
 
Thanks,
I watched the video of the press conference. "this is a chesnut mare" "this is a chestnut mare" so important!, he had to say it twice!
By the way, I love chestnut mares!
 
GrassHorse said:
Thanks,
I watched the video of the press conference. "this is a chesnut mare" "this is a chestnut mare" so important!, he had to say it twice!
By the way, I love chestnut mares!
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I get where he is coming from in a way, I have a home bred chestnut colt who is hypersensitive. When he gets bitten by an insect it becomes the size of a golf ball, he gets rain scald in a mild shower. He has special going out to play suits for summer and winter to protect him. He is twitchy and sensitive and says OUCH much more loudly than the other colours I have.

She must have been a very patient chestnut mare because my boy would have had somebody's eye out if his leg was palpated 57 times. We persevere with him because he is brave and talented albeit a bit delicate in his own time.

I do think George WAS trying to pull some tails with those chestnut remarks (an old chestnut so to speak - gawd think I'll leave the puns to Hilly)
 
I don't know about the whole chesnut thing. I have three chestnut mares, only one is touchy. The two others are fine. I think when you have a mare like that, its very easy to say " chestnut mare"
Whats the only thing worse than a chesnut mare? an Irish Draught chesnut mare:rolleyes:
 
Eothain said:
I don't think they would have sired better class with out the foreigners. When you look at videos on youtube of the old Irish horses, it looked more like sheer heart rather than out standing talent that got them around. They were quite unorthadox and cobby. When you watch Rockbarton or Heather Honey or Heather Blaze, you'd think to your self, how in the name of God did they manage to jump around? The problem with the foreigners that came in originally was that they simply weren't good enough. Cavalier, Furisto and a couple of others had a lot to offer but they were hampered by some other yakks that came in and the stigma is still there.
As for the Draught fellas, they are still in the dark ages. Anything they have to offer has been lost in a sea of bitterness to advances in modern sport. The fences are bigger, wider, lighter and cups shallower. In 1975 the courses had no such thing as a related distance or dog leg. The horses could gallop along, fire itself in the air and once they didn't hit the fence on the way up. They wouldn't knock it on the way down. Look at the videos of the old jumpers and listen to them rub off every fence. They'd be eaten alive by Peppermill and Co today. We need the sharpness of those foreigners to quicken the horses and get them up in the air.
Yes, I do mean it'll be traditional ISH colts I'll be looking for. I've not given up on them yet.
One last thing, the unsuccessful foreign horses still have the temperament to go and do other things outside of competition. Look at the sheer numbers of horses exported to America for equitation classes. What do the young Germans learn to ride on? Those 'thick' foreign horses are not as thick as their reputation claims! There are of course exceptions but for the most part ...
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I am fascinated by this subject, as we can see everyone is quite passionate about it, and everyone wants to breed the best, but all with very different views.. I am in agreement with the majority of what you mention, especially regarding the Draught horses, their breeders seem to think that we are still going to breed ourselves a showjumper by using RID x TB. That is not possible anymore. Our horses need to jump more techincal, bigger tracks, .. the irish horse is brave and careful, but lacks scope and the majority of continental breeding can offer that. This is why Cavalier worked well with the Irish horse, especially King of Diamonds or Cruising dam lines.. He gave us the scope we needed, though the rideabililty and carefulness was slightly lacking. Luckily, the majority of Irish mares had those attributes.
However, AS for the TB, they are all flat bred now, and have nothing to add to breeding a showjumper. Maybe an eventer, but I would prefer to ride a scopey Holsteiner x Irish around Badminton than a little flat bred TB!
The majority of stallions you mention I think will help turnaround our breeding,(some I would not agree with) but we must be more critical of our mareherd as the stallions can only do so much!!
 
Eothain said:
Looks like we're here forever anyway!!!

On to the red text:

Without an injection of warmblood we'd be even further behind than we are. The classical Irish horse was a galloping horse that generated jump through speed. With more technical courses, they'd have no room to generate that jump. Warmbloods can generate jump from little or no space. We need that in our horses.

Because we have an awful marketing machine, if we weren't subsidised, we wouldn't be debating this. There'd be nothing to debate. I've already outlined how I'd go about changing that.

I'm ignoring the stuff about Draughts. I think Draught Horse and then think ... Meh!

We're not selling out by using warmbloods. See point 1. Yes, we need thoroughbred blood but where are they? We're not going to get access to the likes of Presenting or Old Vic and even if we could, who's to say they'd be of any use? Where are the thoroughbreds?

I hope Watermill Swatch can help out but I know he has his doubters. I can only live in hope that his doubters can be proved wrong.

One other thing, I agree with Jan Greve when he says that there is no such thing as a freak showjumper. I agree when he says that a mare who produces a grand prix horse is a good mare as is a stallion who sired a grand prix horse though he never competed himself. Who's to say that in different hands, the parents wouldn't have been stars themselves? The family of a grand prix showjumper is always a good family in my view.

And no Gadetra, Cruising will never produce a horse as good as or better than himself. Why? He's the best to have ever lived. He's the best of any breed, any discipline, any type, any race, creed or colour. He's the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be!
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I just have to wonder how you could mention Cruising and Watermill Swatch in the same conversation? Cruising was a great horse, yes for sure, but Watermill Swatch has nothing to offer the showjumping breeders, only the showing breeders. All he will breed are pretty correct types that cant jump a cross pole. I would be very surprised if he could breed a 1.60m horse from our mares in Ireland.. He is a dressage horse..
 
You're not the first person to say that to me about Watermill Swatch! However, my point is that he could quite possibly add that suspension in step to our mare herd. I'm not saying that he'll breed the next superstar, but as a potential dam sire I hold him in provisional high regard. If he breeds good looking, well conformed, good moving mares that can make a nice shape when loose jumped then he could prove his worth there. Theoretically, that could be the filly which will bring plenty of blood before breeding to a big powerful Holsteiner stallion that will bring the jump and scope.
If he doesn't work out, so be it. I am looking forward to seeing the progeny out of his fillies on the circuit in a few years time
 
QUOTE: Virgina Wolfa produced Boherdeel Clover but tell me more about the other mare?

Zonah's Pet produced Captain Carnute-by Equest Carnute by Oberon Du Moulin. Pamela Miller bred those two mares to a couple of SF's ages ago-ahead of her time maybe?!




QUOTE: There are some pretenders to Master Imp's crown; I am baffled and bemused by one claim that a certain TB sire was regarded as second to him? :eek: The objective challenger is Power Blade with Cult Hero, who is definitely producing some very promising 'youngsters' including Flying Machine, Ghareeb and possibly Frankfort Boy. French Buffet and Watermill Swatch will be up there in a couple of days, agree it may be too late for FB.

Yeah I have my doubts about Ghareeb I think he may be a bit of a Big Sink Hope-pretty lookin commercial things who may get there through numbers alone. I like Golden Lariat though, haven't seen him but seen plenty of his offspring an they're fine big strong lookin stuff with nice steps-the next Golden Cliff maybe???!!
Colin Diamond's progeny have super temperaments, that is one of the reasons he's so popular but at the end of the day, it's the breeders choice, (and pocket) whichever stallion they pick. :)[/QUOTE]
 
GrassHorse said:
I don't know about the whole chesnut thing. I have three chestnut mares, only one is touchy. The two others are fine. I think when you have a mare like that, its very easy to say " chestnut mare"
Whats the only thing worse than a chesnut mare? an Irish Draught chesnut mare:rolleyes:
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Every ID breeders worst nightmare!!
 
Yeah Watermill Swatch is a dressage horse but i agree with Eothain about him adding a bit of suspension-and maybe a more active hindleg. As to bringin the resulting progeny to a Holstein'r I'd go French personally but in the hope of the same result!!

How about High Roller for a nice eventing chap? Vaguely Noble damsire so not too flat bred although I definately agree that there is a profusion of light bred flat types out there as I said in an earlier post.

Surely we must be most viewed by now? I haven't ventured beyond the breeding threads are there really armies of little girls posting about pink stuff? Scaryness!!
Here's to being the most viewed-certainly the most interesting!!
 
Afraid it's trailing far behind the McLain Ward/Sapphire story on Chronicle of the Horse which is close to 60,000 hits in one week. :eek::eek::eek:

On the chestnut mare comments, ack, will put it down to exasperation on George Morris' part although his 'feel far away from home' comment was possibly another kneejerk reaction.

Sweeping statements are my bugbear. It's an old wives tale about chestnut mares; one home-bred chestnut here was the sweetest most placid creature that gave maligned redheads a good name.

FEI would have a field day with BrownTingedGingerYearling. Tired of dunking the Pretty Pony's abandoned Jolly Ball into his hayrack, his latest party piece is chucking it out over the door at passers-by. :rolleyes:

Farrier is due this weekend so a refresher course in picking up feet this week. Maybe too much. All you have to say is 'Up', touch a foreleg and he hops from one front leg to the other like Michael Flatley on Red Bull. Dropped in his evening feed earlier - usually he's hovering at the manger .. nope, standing patiently in the corner, on three legs with his near fore held up ready for a manicure. Or FEI jury. :D

And he's by Ghareeb. :p What is wrong with pretty, commerical horses??? :eek: I'll take 'em anyday to fugly Can't Get Rid Of 'Em ones! They're also very intelligent characters, I can't abide thick neddies but any of the Ghareebs I've met are kindly, intelligent characters. Love them. :)

Not in the same category at all as Big Sink Hope, apart from Playboy and a nice youngster, Plutarch, can't think of many of his progeny that have gone on eventing whereas the Ghareebs have, including Coolio and Regal Promise, over in the States.

He hasn't got huge numbers either though that could well change this year with Master Imp's absence and now Ghareeb is available by AI again within Ireland.

And just as I've mentioned Imp, two of his progeny in the Rolex top ten and damsire of Ashdale Cruise Master, also in the top ten. All to play for yet over the next two days but interesting to see so much TB blood at the top of the dressage leaderboard, including Cool Mountain and .. what's this? The fourth-placed horse is by .. an Irish Draught. Must be a typo. ;)

Mentioned Golden Lariat in another post - early days for him, Watermill Swatch and French Buffet.

Can't scroll back further but someone mentioned Badminton cross-country machines? Last year's picks, for me, were Coolgrange Merger (by a flat-bred TB sire) and Lenamore (out of a flat-bred TB dam).

Am saying nowt about the possible import, Rebel Mountain, until the deal is done and his travelling boots are removed at his potential new Irish home. NOT MINE. No connection. I just heard the story and his partial pedigree earlier this week; now I've seen his full pedigree/pics and oh lordy .. I'm just giddy over the new kid on the block's pedigree as it just ticks all the boxes for anyone planning to breed eventers. IF and I've heard no updates, it works out and he's as impressive in the flesh, I will be top of the 2011 queue. :)
 
Reading this post made me think back to an Irish Draught ( Simply Velvet) mare i used to know when i worked at a local riding school many moons ago now. She was one of the most beautiful horses and had a fantastic temperament. Anyways after looking I found out she has 3 Hornby premiums which i think is good for breeding purposes but not sure how any of her youngsters have actually got on. Has not much to do with the thread but just wanted to say thanks for awakening the memories.
 
Eh? Agree Master Imp was as good as it got but if you mean by leaving 'you' out of the loop over new neddy, that's as much as I can know or say until the 'winner alright' is declared. :)

Had a lovely weekend; first at the very well-organised Connie-ference yesterday where there was a fab line-up of speakers and topics, not just Connemara pony-related. No need for DVDs or knitting at this convention, IL. ;)

Stef Bucca from Somerton Equine Hospital was excellent, as were all the speakers, but the Thought-Provoking Cookie of the day had to go to the lady who declared that "the days of Ireland breeding showjumpers are gone". And that would be one Mary McCann, owner of Hartwell Stud and Cruising. Now, there's food for thought from the expert's mouth.

Dropped the 'Monster' off at horsepital earlier for foaling; she is within sight of Huntingfield Rebel who looks as Andulasian noble-like as ever and Cruisings Micky Finn. Not at all what I expected; he's looking $500,000 and I'm sure once he's got 4 more weeks of TLC at his new base, will look the full million but still impressed by the new arrival. He definitely resembles Sky Boy, not at all clunky or plain.

Now, off to watch the Rolex live streaming. :D
 
hilly said:
the Thought-Provoking Cookie of the day had to go to the lady who declared that "the days of Ireland breeding showjumpers are gone". And that would be one Mary McCann, owner of Hartwell Stud and Cruising. Now, there's food for thought from the expert's mouth.
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Well, this entire thread can be deleted so. The white flag has been raised. With tears rolling down my cheeks, it's time for me to reach across my desk, grab The Essential Simon and Garfunkel and play Bridge Over Troubled Water.

It's over, we lose.

Did she give any reason as to why she said that?
 
Eothain said:
Well, this entire thread can be deleted so. The white flag has been raised. With tears rolling down my cheeks, it's time for me to reach across my desk, grab The Essential Simon and Garfunkel and play Bridge Over Troubled Water.

It's over, we lose.

Did she give any reason as to why she said that?
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AW Eothain my heart goes out to you!! -step away from the Simon an Garfunkel...dry them eyes...it's time to start your own all Ireland showjumping breeding empire. One mare at a time then BAM! your the next male Mary McCann! ;-)
 
hilly said:
And he's by Ghareeb. :p What is wrong with pretty, commerical horses??? :eek: I'll take 'em anyday to fugly Can't Get Rid Of 'Em ones! They're also very intelligent characters, I can't abide thick neddies but any of the Ghareebs I've met are kindly, intelligent characters. Love them. :)
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Well your right the fugly unsaleable ones are worse. Ghareeb has 600 foals registered to him an been approved since 1998. That's a fair old time and a fair few progeny on the ground to not have something decent represent him at the top level...
Is Colourfield sill covering? He's gettin on a bit now. I have a soft spot for them.
 
Speaking of Big Sink Hope, he actually had a horse in the Premier GP in Louth today. It's much easier to go through the Premier startlists than the Chippison League startlists.
Big Sink Hope, Errigal Flight, Clover Brigade, Cavalier, Clover Echo, Touchdown and Cruising each had one hoorse in the Grand Prix today. 23 of the 30 qualified starters were foreign horses. Maybe Mary McCann is right! Maybe we're screwed!

***EDIT***

Lux had one in the GP as well, but it doesn't count because it isn't an Irish bred son of Lux
 
Moving to the World stage, it is not all bad news for Irish horses and a complete feather in the cap for Irish Draughts; below are the rankings after the cross country at Rolex Kentucky.

"Three Irish Sport Horses are in the top ten following the x-country action today at Rolex Kentucky CCI4*

2nd Tipperary Liadhnan (ISH) – 1997 grey gelding by Fast Silver (RID) out of Gypsy Star (ISH), by I’m A Star (TB). Bred by Tobias Corbett. Rider: Kim Severson (USA)
6th Mandiba (ISH) - 1999 gelding Master Imp (TB) out of High Dolly (ISH) by Chair Lift (TB). Bd William Micklem. Rd Karen O’Connor (USA).
7th ODT Master Rose (ISH) – 2000 bay gelding by Master Imp (TB) out of Skyrose (ISH), by Sky Boy (TB). Bred by Patrick Kirwan, Knockroe, Borris, Co. Carlow. Rider: Oliver Townend (Gbr) "

Just looking at the line up it is clear if we are to be more scientific, the genetic value in the sires mentioned in the above paragraph is glaringly obvious. How to harness those with new blood of equal merit is going to be the hard part.

Congratulations to FAST SILVER (RID) and his connections. (You will believe a draught can fly!)

(Hilly - Trick photography, smoke and mirrors, typing error???;))

We ARE capable of producing world class horses and if Eventers are our speciality, then capitalise on it and celebrate it. So we don't do showjumpers anymore - Do we want to? Why not focus the effort where we can do the job and make our Eventing studbook invincible??

So saying, I was looking down the microscope at a Belgian warmblood's tadpoles on Saturday with a view to inseminating my warmblood broodmare......... Dreams hey:)
 
Unfortunately, Paddy as Kim Severson's horse is known to his friends, rather let the side down yesterday by refusing one fence and demolishing several others to drop way down the list!
 
Errmmm Yes I know SJFan:o..................

However :), it is still proof the Irish Draught has a role as a foundation breed when the progeny are competing at 4* despite their detractors and congrats still in order to Fast Silver's people.
 
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