Happy Days For ISH Breeders

Yes, I'm a fan of Irish-breds as well. Oli's other ride Ashdale Cruise Master is of course by Cruising, out of Slys Girl by Master Imp and was very unlucky to take that horrible fall.
 
Thanks for that Irishlife, It looks as though our little ID colt has got the best ID breeding for eventing then, being by a RID half brother to Grange bouncer and out of a good Fast Silver mare, good job that is what we bought him for, watch his space!!!!!:D:D
 
gadetra said:
Well your right the fugly unsaleable ones are worse. Ghareeb has 600 foals registered to him an been approved since 1998. That's a fair old time and a fair few progeny on the ground to not have something decent represent him at the top level...
Is Colourfield sill covering? He's gettin on a bit now. I have a soft spot for them.
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It's not that long and it's not that many! You're talking about an average of 60 foals per year in that ten-year span from his first foals on Irish ground to last year and for me, he's well on course for producing eventers and has already achieved his target as a showhorse sire. That is his main role. An eventer & showhorse sire. :)

Master Imp had a seven-year lead on him - went to stud as a 3yo - and even with all his advantages, he is gone before his best are yet to be seen on the eventing circuit.

Such is the lot of the eventing sire; as Colourfield's pragmatic owner says about his stablemate, Orbis, 'he'll be dead before people know how good he was'.

Alas, Colourfield went to the covering paddock above 2 years ago; a very useful sire and even better broodmare sire as his daughters throw their stock like their covering sire.

No, Mary didn't elaborate. She did add that the French have almost caught up in the eventing studbook rankings and .. reach for the smelling salts .. that one of the most commercial animals was a Connie mare crossed with a TB sire.

She's smart, she's shrewd and she has seen the writing on the wall. And personally, I agree the glory days are gone and that I would rather throw pins at the moon than start a showjumping breeding programme that realistically may only catch up with the European leaders in showjumping breeding in 3/4 generations. Which will take at least 30/40 years - I aim to have retired to the Florida sunshine long before then but will continue to breed those pretty, commercial animals in the meantime. ;)

Them's not special effects, Irishlife, them fence judges in the grassy knolls gave up waiting for the Draught thing to lumber round the course in four hours. :rolleyes:

Yes, it fell apart for him on the last day, whether it was an injury picked up on the SJ course or he ran out of steam after a gruelling x-country, who knows. Mandiba pulled a shoe x-country and I can imagine the work put in by the O'Connor team overnight but he'll be back in September. :) Ollie's fall was a shock - the speculation last week was whether he and WFP would even make the competition so it puts the whole risky sport of eventing into perspective. The best news is all horses and riders are in one piece after the Rolex and they will resume battle there during the WEG.

The other piece of obvious news from the Rolex is TB, TB and more TB lines. I'm not sure on whose watch the formats were tweaked but when they were, it was supposed to usher in the end of the TB influence in eventing. Between Miner's Frolic and Cool Mountain, pure TBs are cleaning up at 4* level and Michael Jung's Sam (at least 80% TB) is the other top horse right now.

And yes, big shout out for Fast Silver's connections. He's standing at the moment with one of the nicest young Draught enthusiasts/breeders you could meet - he even built a brand-new stable especially for Fast Silver's arrival last year and puts his heart & soul into preserving Draught lines. Another breath of fresh air. :)
 
Eventing may be our speciality but I'll be damned if I give up on our showjumpers.

Congratulations to Fast Silver and his connections for the Kentucky result. I'm absolutely delighted for all involved.

Now, some people might think, *gasp* You hypocrite, how dare you jump on the bandwagon!!! I'm not. I said waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back somewhere near the beginning that I want the ID stallions to show me that they can produce the goods. I didn't/don't care if it's showjumpers or eventers. I want them to show me they have a place at the table. I want to sort out who has a place in a Sports breeding program and who doesn't. Fast Silver's place is well and truly secured.
Another ID who has proved he merits a place and he hasn't been mentioned at all yet is Crannagh Hero. What a gem. If I could find a Crannagh Hero filly with two crosses of good thoroughbred back beyond that, I'd find it hard to pass by.

The glory days for showjumpers are well over but I'm sure there's enough of us who are too stubborn to give up on getting those days back eventually. No one said it's going to be easy but if it's not worth fighting for, it's not worth doing.

Thankfully, the TB studbook isn't affiliated to WBFSH, or our job would be even trickier than it is at the moment.

All I know, is that I'm rooting for Sam Watson in particular at Badminton. I've had the pleasure of speaking to his dad John on several occasions. He's the only person I've met that likes Puissance more than I do. I dare say he likes Puissance more than the Hutchinsons do!!! What a genius when it comes to Event horse breeding. He's made it very clear to me what is going to be required from Eventers in the next few years
 
[droped the 'Monster' off at horsepital earlier for foaling; she is within sight of Huntingfield Rebel who looks as Andulasian noble-like as ever and Cruisings Micky Finn. Not at all what I expected; he's looking $500,000 and I'm sure once he's got 4 more weeks of TLC at his new base, will look the full million but still impressed by the new arrival. He definitely resembles Sky Boy, not at all clunky or plain.

Now, off to watch the Rolex live streaming. :D[/QUOTE]

stupid question/what do you mean by this
 
Crannagh Hero ah yes bred by the lovely lovely Tim O'Sullivan, what a great man he is, met him and Mr Casey at one of our breed show dinners 2007 I think. Fantastic horse.
 
hilly said:
Ack, Photobucket is acting up, had a pic of Colourfield to post. Later
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pats Photobucket ..


ColourfieldRDS1992.jpg


Here's the old boy when he won the Croker Cup in '92. And one of the ringside onlookers is the one-time owner of Diamond Lad, Accondy and now, Cougar and who also bred the dam of Carling King.

You meet practically everyone if you stand still at Ring 1 for long enough. :)

Going back to Ghareeb - Coolio won the 2* at Scone Palace last weekend for the second year in a row. Not bad for a Pretty Sire. :D

Puissance and Master Imp's success is mainly due to Imperius; now if only there were even more sons of his available. :o
 
hilly said:
pats Photobucket ..


ColourfieldRDS1992.jpg


Here's the old boy when he won the Croker Cup in '92. And one of the ringside onlookers is the one-time owner of Diamond Lad, Accondy and now, Cougar and who also bred the dam of Carling King.

You meet practically everyone if you stand still at Ring 1 for long enough. :)

Going back to Ghareeb - Coolio won the 2* at Scone Palace last weekend for the second year in a row. Not bad for a Pretty Sire. :D

Puissance and Master Imp's success is mainly due to Imperius; now if only there were even more sons of his available. :o
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The stallion Jack Of Diamonds carries the Imperious blood... He is by Irco Mena and his dam is by Imperious x King of Diamonds mare. Irco Mena himself has the breeding of the old Irish thoroughbreds Menelek and Battleburn (sire of Boomerang). He is definitely going to be a serious jumping & eventing sire. his foals are getting big prices at sales too..
Check out www.lissavastud.com
 
Well I finally got a big strong healthy colt last night.... only about 3 1/2 weeks overdue !!

So quick question, the dam is an imported german warmblood mare and the sire is a foreign warmblood stallion, but he was born right in the heart of Tipperary!!!!

So would you consider him to be Irish? I know he's not the irish bred horse you've all been talking about as there's no Irish blood in him to be seen!! But I'd say he was Irish as he was born here, but then I'm biased lol
 
Puissance and Master Imp's success is mainly due to Imperius; now if only there were even more sons of his available. :o[/QUOTE]

cavalier land carries imperius blood.he is by cavalier royale x imperius x highland flight sire of highland king sire of ballincoola
can anyone trump those eventing lines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol:):D
 
no he is s1
i bought a skyboy mare off his owner i asked him the same question he told me he was s1 selected for performance testing and that was good enough for him :confused:
 
He should be brought out for inspection anyway. Regardless of his lineage! In my view, which I stress to those reading and following this but that may not be commenting, in my opinion stallions absolutely must be brought forward for inspection. Unless of course the connections of any given stallion, not necessarily Golden Master, have a lack of faith in their horse and therefore have something to hide!!!

Simsar, what happened to the compilation of thoughts on ISH breeding going forward that you were working on?

This entire thread is slowing down. I realise that people are running out of things to say, but no one has answered the question I asked.

What, in each of your opinions, is the best way for Irish breeding to forward with the end goal of defending our Eventing crown, restoring the pride of our showjumpers, continuing to produce the bread and butter horses that everyone loves whilst also, most importantly, creating an economically viable Sport Horse sector in Ireland, encompassing everyone from elite riders to breeders? How do we create a sector that is able to stand on it's own two feet and not as dependant on subsidies?

How do we do it?
 
Eothain,

you will, doubtless remember many pages back, that I asked much the same question. You've asked "How do we do it"? and I asked, "What of the future"?

Perhaps it's a good thing, that this thread has slowed down. Perhaps those with valid opinions, are starting to consider the views of others. Defending "our" own corner is to be understood, but whilst an Irish breeding programme is fragmented, and there is no common goal, then progress will not be made. It may well be that the traditionalists, and those who would see a change of direction will hold hands, or at the very least, consider the views of others.

That Ireland has produced the very best horses for many years, cannot be in question. It may well be that, because of financial pressures, the bed rock of good and purposeful breeding, the best of brood mares, has rather been abandoned. If I'm wrong, and it hasn't, then the stallion selection has been inadequate.

You started this thread, and I'm sure that I'm not alone in applauding your efforts. It will, though, be a pointless exercise if the only points queried will be those which are contentious. If Ireland is to regain it's deserved crown, then entrenched attitudes need to change. It can be done.

I may well be alone, but the opinions of most on this thread, have rather altered my thinking.

Your final question? Don't know, I was rather hoping that you would tell me!

Alec.
 
look at the great horses we used to produce
eg cruising =sea crest RID x nordlys TB x water serpant TB
eg puissance =imperious TB x diamonds are trumps RID x mythical TB
eg laughtons flight =king of diamonds RID x highland flight TB x bell laughton RID
THE MEN BEFORE US WERE NOT FOOLS THEY KNEW WHAT WAS OUT FOREIGN
cavalier was a great stallion but he did more harm than good he set everyone in this country foreign bred mad so when other foreigners came in to this country people thought they were all going to be cavaliers and they not.why poison our irish bloodlines with foreigners
for me cavalier was good but was he as good a sire as cruising or clover hill
just my opinion
 
I'm not trying to be contentious. I've already given my view on what the way forward is. It's back somewhere around the early to mid-30s I think. I've my opinions on how things can go forward. Some of my thinking has been changed by this thread. Not to be entrenched!
Not one comment has been made about my thoughts on how to make an industry out of Sport Horse breeding in this country because we don't have an industry in my view, we have an expensive hobby! I can repost what I've said already if you missed it.

All I want, is to hear from a few others who have been on this thread the whole way through to get their stance on where we go from here.

Then this thread, delightful as it has been to be a part of it and indeed to have started it, can be laid to rest.

As for Cavalier doing more harm than good ... That's a bold claim!
 
Eothain.This is our stance on the subject as depicted by what mares are going to what stallions this year.As far as bread and butter horses are concerned where are the buyers for them now???

Ballyshan Diva(Ricardo Z X Carnival Night) covered with Cornet's Stern.
Ballyshan Lady by Cavalier Royale to Mermus R(Burrgraf X Ramiro Z)
Lough View Lass(Animo X Cabby/Chou Chin Chou) to Ustinov(Libero H X Nimmerdor) or Eurocommerce Canturano(Canturo X Coriano)
Ballyshan Claudia(Lux Z X Diamond Lad) to Chellthago.
Ballyshan Belle(Fastness X Persian Bold) to Lancelot(Voltaire X Nimmerdor)
Ballyshan Cleopatra(Cobra X VDL Arkansas) to Verdi/Canturano.
_________________
 
Hi I really will reply soon been a bit busy with puppies, covering mares, vets and I have stupidly agreed to take on a major role in the IDHS(GB) breed show organisation so don't really have a lot of time to come on here at the moment, I have got Saturday off so will try and reply to your questions then:D

Simon
 
Ballyshan - An exciting mixture of stallions on some well-bred mares.

I think everybody who has contributed to this thread should form the steering committee for the Irish Horse Board strategic plan to achieve it's goal of improving the Irish showjumping horse. All of life and experience is here - our overseas customers and consumers, hobby breeders, strategic breeders, professionals, Irish horse traditionalists, dreamers and pragmatists, experts and novices,show jumpers, eventers, hunting folk and warmblood people.

Laying this thread bare, it was originally a post celebrating we now had access to even more stallions and choices for our breeding programmes. What it has become is a very rough blueprint of what we should be preserving, how we should be improving our broodmare herd, demarcation between types of sport horses and we have touched a little on sport horse production (separate thread please - a part two to this one). To a degree we can fine down the mixture of phenotypes neeeded for a given type, then identify traits from given stallion lines and dam lines and have a fairly good punt at producing the goods.

However, far from being a non subsidised industry, the only way to harness horse breeders is to have a state run facility e.g. The Army stands and competes stallions and these horses are made available at standard subsidised rates to mares who have passed an inspection and have been put onto a genetic improvement programme or are considered suitable foundation mares for the future of Irish show jumpers. We may even have to take it on the chin when our mares are NOT approved for the breeding programme. This of course would run along side private enterprise. It would take serious investment and as a nation financially strapped at the moment, and even in good times, the financial scale of regional state run stallion centres would be phenomenal but the advantages would be affordability for breeders as the best stallions in Ireland and Europe could be leased or semen made available at subsidised rates.

But, this is Ireland and this kind of structure just would not work. The chasm between enlightened breeders and backyard breeders and all degrees between is frightening. I think someone said earlier the Irish don't do discipline and yes that is quite true there are a million breeding theories within a square mile of me so goodness knows what is out there in the rest of the country.:confused:

Example: RID mare of blue blood breeding was taken for a return service (did not go in foal) to an RID stallion. In the intervening year, the stallion was sold so was not available, so she was covered with a 2yo ID colt who they hope might pass his inspection next year.

So tear your hair out.:(

The traffic light system is a huge leap forward I think its easy to understand
Approved, Preliminary Approved and Not Approved.

The future is a long way off for Irish Show Jumpers competing regularly and recognisably at international level but in the meantime, there will always be another Carling King or Cruising coming along to keep us hopeful and motivated.:)
 
Irishlife thank you for your compliments.Please dont get me wrong in the stallions we have chosen and the mares that we have are what I want to mix with our herd.In turn if there is something out there that is irish and has the scope then we will use it.There are always going to be people who breed the traditional way.ID x ID or TB x ID and vice versa but we are not one of them.If people say the traditional cross(bread and butter type horses)are making a profit then who am I to disagree.This is the route we have taken and as long as it says Irish Sport horse that is all that matters.We have in the past been offered zangersheide or KWPN papers but as long as it says ISH I dont mind.
 
Wow, have just read the whole thread and have to say that I have found it extremely informative and reassured that there are still plenty of very knowledgeable people out there in realtion to breeding.

I however, have a huge predicament! I am a small amateur breeder (1 mare) and am completely confused as to who to send her to (have about 10days to make up my mind).

My mare is bred to event (which she did successfully) she is by Senang Hati out of a Carnival night mare....she was bred by the late Michal Leonard (Ringwood horses).

I am torn between Puissance and Royal Concorde (a friend has sent his mare to him and is very keen on him). Or do I go to Kings Master or Colin Diamond?

I have a Ricardo Z yearling - which seems to be fairly correct...will he be an international eventer - who knows? will he be a nice saleable horse - I sincerely hope so. Yes we would all love to breed the next badminton winner, but ultimately not all horses make it to badminton so at the end of the day I ideally want to breed a horse that is fit for a purpose - maybe some call this the bread and butter breeding market....but something has to pay for the breeding of the superstars.

going off topic slghtly! A very good friend bred Portersize Just a Jiff, who is at Badminton this weekend....not bad for an 'overgrown' pony as she would admit herself. His 1/2 brother and sister were competing last weekend, getting placed in the amatuers and 1.20 as 5 and 6 yr olds!


So summing all up....any ideas as to who I should my mare to? All ideas much appreciated.
 
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