Has anyone successfully complained about a farrier to the farriery council?

[LEC]

So why my question? I was thinking back to a few years ago when I went ballistic about a horses feet that wasn't under my care but the horse was a livery and it was lame. I had a stand out row with the farrier about the quality of the work and how the horse now had two diffferent size feet. I had been with the girl when she bought the horse, so knew it had not arrived like that. I then got my farrier to look at the feet. He would only confirm a shit job had been done verbally, told me in no uncertain terms that he would never put it in writing and that farriers do not comment on each others work. I asked how you take complaints forward and was basically told its impossible.

This brings me to now. I am based on a livery yard and some of the work is such a poor quality but actually if farriers will not help you to take a complaint further - How do you get redress? How is the consumer able to know if the farrier is any good? It just means the poor ones go on unchecked......

 

[IrishMilo]

I think the biggest problem is that most owners just see a foot... and that's it. They have no idea what constitutes and good and bad farriery, or know anything about hoof anatomy, which is really depressing.

 

[Tiddlypom]

This brings me to now. I am based on a livery yard and some of the work is such a poor quality but actually if farriers will not help you to take a complaint further - How do you get redress? How is the consumer able to know if the farrier is any good? It just means the poor ones go on unchecked......

I’ve posted recently about this on another thread.

There is a complaints system for farriers. A complaint will be forwarded to a regional farrier rep to be overseen. The rep and the complained about farrier will be from the same region, and may well already know each other. This makes farriers very unlikely to testify against each other - my farrier said he simply didn’t want the hassle of upsetting a local big cheese farrier, although he agreed that the work was dreadful.

It is a very poor system keeping the complaint within the local area - the personalities involved should not know each other.

I didn’t proceed as the horse was out on loan at the time of the crap shoeing, the loan home thought the crap farrier was wonderful, and I couldn’t get a proper history.

You could, though, involve a vet if the farriers clam up.

 

[dorsetladette]

Could you not have a vet comment on the foot? I know vets recommend 'good' farriers which would suggest they know the not so good ones too.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I was advised not to claim by my new farrier about my sacked farrier. He said that he had recently been a witness for a very clear cut complaint and he said that it was a stressful process for the person who complained, that the result was weak and pathetic and not worth it.

 

[Tiddlypom]

MC, that’s awful .

 

[Gingerwitch]

Could you not have a vet comment on the foot? I know vets recommend 'good' farriers which would suggest they know the not so good ones too.

Vets won't comment either but if you ask whom would you recommend to shoe Neddy they will usually recommend if they know the comment will be off the record do to speak.

 

[maisie06]

It's too much of a closed shop and too stressful. Best thing for owners is to get clued up about what consitutes good farriery and if you are unhappy with a farrier get rid. I had one farrier who started off great, really good job, nice feet then as he became more popular her got slap dash trying to rush and cram in clients I was unhappy with the work so I never rebooked, if owners did that instead of not recognising bad work and having the crap farriers back again and again until the horse is lame the rubbish ones wouldhave no clients left.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Yes, he said a few other things about what he would improve about the worshipful company, including the syllabus, regular mandatory training to keep up to date as well as overhauling the complaints process. He also said that it was ridiculous that owners needed to be so knowledgeable and that in his opinion, you should be able to know nothing about hooves, hand your horse over to a trained farrier and be assured of a good job that is above a minimum standard. He said that you don't need to to learn about plumbing and follow your plumber around to check that they solder all the joints properly, so why should that be the case with farriers?

 

[Frumpoon]

I've also had cause to be very concerned about Farriers but not bothered taking further - its a boys club and they know it!!

I've had 2 female farriers - both superb and would always recommend those 2 individuals, sadly not in my area anymore

Farriers are told they are not allowed to comment badly on another farrier's work and can be struck off if they do - if that is not representative of a governing body that isn't fit for purpose I don't know what is!

Its very common for medical practitioners to provide and receive second opinions so I don't know why this lot think they are above it

 

[milliepops]

Yes, he said a few other things about what he would improve about the worshipful company, including the syllabus, regular mandatory training to keep up to date as well as overhauling the complaints process. He also said that it was ridiculous that owners needed to be so knowledgeable and that in his opinion, you should be able to know nothing about hooves, hand your horse over to a trained farrier and be assured of a good job that is above a minimum standard. He said that you don't need to to learn about plumbing and follow your plumber around to check that they solder all the joints properly, so why should that be the case with farriers?

maybe... but i think pretty much anyone would have some horror story about a trade or professional of some kind that they've employed

builders who do half a job, or
garages who rip you off, or
doctors who miss obvious symptoms

some of it is honest human error, some is shonky practice - we all have to be pretty savvy in all aspects of life really :/

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Absolutely true MP.

It's what he said though.

ETA - I think he was a bit despondent after the complaint he had gone through (as a witness) and needed to vent a bit.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Vets won't comment either but if you ask whom would you recommend to shoe Neddy they will usually recommend if they know the comment will be off the record do to speak.

Some vets will! Mine did after a notorious farrier made 1 too many butchery efforts!
Farrier got struck off eventually though it took mediation, supervision and then another eminent vet getting involved. Farrier actually came sideways from the services, he was a bloody monster. V glad he never touched mine, but it was the talk of the area for a few years.
This was in the early 90s.

 

[LEC]

It was as I thought - very depressing and very arcane.

I particularly find it astonishing as its a welfare issue and vets have complaints all the time which are treated very seriously by their membership body. In fact vets really are not very protected by their membership body and I would say it has gone too far the other way.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Re owners should recognise bad farriery, well, they should, but...

There’s a local farrier who has been around for donkeys years. Nice guy. I used him for over 30 years. He was also used by some top yards - one of the most successful showing yards in the country and a top National Hunt training yard.

His farriery is awful, the top yards have all let him go now. But apparently knowledgable people have used him for years.

When I was on the Wirral over 30 years ago, there was so much ‘navicular‘ about. The common link being a certain farrier. He was a training farrier too , he trained the crap farrier that I posted about above.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I wasn't involved and don't know how the process worked but I do know of a local farrier who was struck off because he kept turning up drunk. I had used the farrier whom he was apprenticed to - and he should have been an excellent, skilled farrier, probably was when he was sober.

 

[LittleBlackMule]

Vets won't comment either but if you ask whom would you recommend to shoe Neddy they will usually recommend if they know the comment will be off the record do to speak.

I looked after a horse with such badly twisted and unbalanced feet his heel bulbs were practically horizontal when viewed from behind, I tried many times to point it out to his owner but she wouldn’t believe it could possibly be anything to do with her farrier.
I got the opportunity to show the vet one day and he was appalled, described it as ‘a dereliction of duty’.. but when I asked him if he could talk to the owner he immediately backtracked saying he didn’t want to offend anyone..

 

[DirectorFury]

Could you not have a vet comment on the foot? I know vets recommend 'good' farriers which would suggest they know the not so good ones too.

IME vets won’t want to get involved, the vet who condemned my ex-farrier was happy to do so verbally but wouldn’t put anything in writing. On talking to the receptionist for the vet (as she’s a friend) it was mainly because the farrier was notorious for bad mouthing vets who didn’t agree with him and vet didn’t want the hassle.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Robbie Richardson The biggest problem in my profession is there is no minimum standard. Once qualified a farrier may shoe how he/she wishes. We should not wait for the owner to be educated to put things right, we need to change the education system in our profession so it is more suited to present day farriery. As someone who shod horses for 40 years before turning my business 100% barefoot I am convinced that the only improvement I witnessed in the shod horse was the standard of the ready-made shoe. Owners deserve more, Mark and farriers like him are doing their best but the profession does not see the future of farriery as we do!

I looked at Mark Johnson's page that was recommended by Amber's Echo (on a different thread) and found the above comment. Is there really no minimum standard? That would explain one of my farrier's comments that I mentioned in post 9 on this thread.

https://www.facebook.com/markjfarrier/

 

[ester]

I was curious what the CPD situation was for farriers.
This seems to read to me that only newly qualified farriers from 2016 onwards have a CPD requirement?
https://www.farrier-reg.gov.uk/cont...2014, it has been,a request for their records.

 

[sbloom]

I looked at Mark Johnson's page that was recommended by Amber's Echo (on a different thread) and found the above comment. Is there really no minimum standard? That would explain one of my farrier's comments that I mentioned in post 9 on this thread.

https://www.facebook.com/markjfarrier/

Mark is a brilliant person to follow for anyone that wants to know more about feet. I would say he'd be right.

 

[Marigold4]

It's too much of a closed shop and too stressful. Best thing for owners is to get clued up about what consitutes good farriery and if you are unhappy with a farrier get rid. I had one farrier who started off great, really good job, nice feet then as he became more popular her got slap dash trying to rush and cram in clients I was unhappy with the work so I never rebooked, if owners did that instead of not recognising bad work and having the crap farriers back again and again until the horse is lame the rubbish ones wouldhave no clients left.

It's so difficult to find good farriers though. The good ones are booked up and will only travel a certain distance. So changing from a farrier who does substandard work to a good one is not easy, even if they do deign to answer your calls. I went barefoot in the end and have a great trimmer but sometimes get very fed up with putting the boots on and all their flipping velcro

 

[SEL]

I was curious what the CPD situation was for farriers.
This seems to read to me that only newly qualified farriers from 2016 onwards have a CPD requirement?
https://www.farrier-reg.gov.uk/continuing-professional-development#:~:text=Since 2014, it has been,a request for their records.

Ha! I sort of asked a while back (fortunately not to one that does my horse's hooves) and was basically told 'I've been doing it 30 years there's nothing more anyone can teach me'.

There's some fascinating stuff going on with 3D printing of horse shoes with a guy in Australia where he really is designing the shoe - with heel support - to help the horse in front of him. I'm sure boots could be designed that way too. Perhaps in years to come they won't rock up with a forge, but a 3D printer and an x-ray machine.

 

[dorsetladette]

It's so difficult to find good farriers though. The good ones are booked up and will only travel a certain distance. So changing from a farrier who does substandard work to a good one is not easy, even if they do deign to answer your calls. I went barefoot in the end and have a great trimmer but sometimes get very fed up with putting the boots on and all their flipping velcro

We seem to have a large amount of farriers around here all of a sudden.

I had a farrier who was good at what he did, but if he was in a bad mood his horsemanship skills were not the best. He also injured himself alot doing DIY at home so had a lot of time off. I struggled to find a farrier who was as good as him (on a good day) and who was reliable. i think because I only had 2 trims to do I was never classed as an important customer. I now have a fab farrier who I really rate. He talks me through anything he does and the reason why he does it, what to watch for etc etc - I honestly would not be without him now. A good farrier is worth there weight in gold. Especially when they have an organised wife managing their diary!

 

[Iris1995]

I complained to the Farriers Registration Council and had a good resolution but it was on behaviour rather than quality of work. The issue of feet not being a pair is debatable but should have been discussed with the owner. Unless it is a welfare issue I think it is unlikely to be considered by the FRC. Farriers are not intentionally bad at their job so berating them may not secure improvements. Find a farrier you like and give them your custom.

 

[LEC]

I complained to the Farriers Registration Council and had a good resolution but it was on behaviour rather than quality of work. The issue of feet not being a pair is debatable but should have been discussed with the owner. Unless it is a welfare issue I think it is unlikely to be considered by the FRC. Farriers are not intentionally bad at their job so berating them may not secure improvements. Find a farrier you like and give them your custom.

You might find a farrier you like but doesn't mean they are doing a good job. For me this is a serious concern that their is zero professional development expectation, no recourse from a professional body with a professional way to deal with complaints and its all left to the owner. Not good enough from a body which prides itself on being professional.

I have no issue with my farrier btw. I probably talk once a week on the phone to him about each horse, we discuss changes in advance and I make him bring in his mentor (who is a genius with remedial) when something tricky has come up on any of my horses feet. At one point I have had 3 farriers and a vet looking at my horses feet as you have one shot at getting it right with remedial work. But, I have connections to make this happen (I know a LOT of farriers as friends and I have been on the horse scene a long time here), a fairly strong knowledge of horses feet and I work exceptionally closely with my farrier every time the horse is shod.

 

[LEC]

Ha! I sort of asked a while back (fortunately not to one that does my horse's hooves) and was basically told 'I've been doing it 30 years there's nothing more anyone can teach me'.

There's some fascinating stuff going on with 3D printing of horse shoes with a guy in Australia where he really is designing the shoe - with heel support - to help the horse in front of him. I'm sure boots could be designed that way too. Perhaps in years to come they won't rock up with a forge, but a 3D printer and an x-ray machine.

and its this kind of bullshit answer which I hate. Feet are such an organic thing and we are constantly evolving our knowledge about them. I think it should be essential that they do professional development. I follow the Equine Documentalist and finally they have the research which backs up my hunch that feet have a massive impact on the muscular system. I have always been anal about minor changes and correct angles and now they have the work to back this up.

 

[Iris1995]

You might find a farrier you like but doesn't mean they are doing a good job. For me this is a serious concern that their is zero professional development expectation, no recourse from a professional body with a professional way to deal with complaints and its all left to the owner. Not good enough from a body which prides itself on being professional.

I rather assumed that liking the farrier meant you like the work they do!

Farriers are required to do CPD and my farrier is happy to chat about the CPD sessions he does and meets with the vets to discuss cases etc. and that is definitely one of the things I “like” about him.

 

[rabatsa]

I have a wonderful farrier who went on to do a Farriery degree of some sort. He would not do any of the higher Farriers council stuff as he reckons that they are old and inflexible in their methods and it is their way or no way. He is brilliant with all equines and has sorted out more twisted legs and feet for me than he should have ever been asked to do, for some reason I keep getting given these problems. I am dreading the day that he retires.

In a different world there was a local chap, ancient when I was knee high to a grasshopper, who also was prone to turning up drunk in his younger days. He went to a farm to shoe the work horses one day and the farmer thought that he was too drunk to touch his horses so he pointed out an unhandled and uncatchable colt in a field and left him to it. A couple of hours later he was back and asked where the second horse was as the first was done. The farrier telling me (and the old farriers daughter) the tale said he had made a good job of shoeing the horse too and once word got round no one worried about his being a bit drunk on the job. He also said that he grew out of that problem in a couple of years.

Not that I recommend anyone using a drunk farrier.

 

[Dyllymoo]

and its this kind of bullshit answer which I hate. Feet are such an organic thing and we are constantly evolving our knowledge about them. I think it should be essential that they do professional development. I follow the Equine Documentalist and finally they have the research which backs up my hunch that feet have a massive impact on the muscular system. I have always been anal about minor changes and correct angles and now they have the work to back this up.

I had him come and do J's first set of shoes with me as I was paranoid I was going to break him/ he had issues! He was so good but the cost was too much for me every 6 weeks (and the travel for him as well) and he said J's feet were really good and I should go with a local respected farrier