Having a horse put down - Injection or Gun ?

[spotty_pony]

Sorry to hear this OP. It’s never an easy decision to have to make.

Injection with sedation first - the only time I’d say gun is if a Vet wasn’t nearby and there was somebody around who was licensed to shoot and a horse had had an accident and suffering needed to be prevented.

I have watched 4 of my horse pass away by injection now and all passed away peacefully.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Seen the aftermath of many horse shot- its not pretty, also witness them pulling the horse in truck. Not intentionally I woke up and heard the noise and saw them pulling Heron in.

The way I see it - horses have injections all the time, where as putting something between their eyes can cause them to move sudden like CD did and grossly his Br*ns came out his ear. I was lucky not to be there at the time but it is always there to remind me even tho done in 80's.

My mare is head shy and I like being with them till confirmed gone cuddling them .


The gun I would have to be out of ear shot of the sound and it would haunt me for ever, I could not do that.

I always keep their ashes so that is my preference hoping one day their ashes can be put in with mine.

 

[ester]

For me I think part of the decision is who is available to do it as much as how. The Vet I had a relationship with is now retired (I thought the gun license might have gone with him but one of the new partners can do it) and we have a knackerlady with a very good reputation locally and who we have used for previous collection. As such it will likely be the latter.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Personal choice but I don't think I could watch any of mine be shot. I think that image would always be burned into my brain. Also as daft as this may sound two of mine have beautiful white blazes on their faces and I couldn't bare the thought of them being stained with blood, and our red bay Standie has such a beautiful proud head, the thought of an ugly wound on his beautiful face.....
An emergency is different of course but if I get to plan it, it will be by injection with me by their side, cuddling them until they've slipped away.

 

[rabatsa]

All this talk of blood. Often there is very little and that comes out of the nose.

Unless burried on site the carcase is winched onto a wagon no matter what method of pts is used.

 

[Gallop_Away]

All this talk of blood. Often there is very little and that comes out of the nose.

Unless burried on site the carcase is winched onto a wagon no matter what method of pts is used.

I'm fully aware of what happens to the "carcase" (lovely use of language by the way) after the horse is dead. It doesn't change the fact that I would like to be with my horse when the time comes and afterwards before they are taken away.
I couldn't bring myself to stand there and watch them shot. It would be distressing to me and this could in turn cause distress to my horse. Nor could I personally hand them to a stranger.
Some horses bleed very little, others bleed a lot. Having seen the aftermath of a horse shot by a gun recently, some definitely can and do bleed a lot.
It's personal choice at the end of the day. It would be my preference for my horses to go by injection so that I can stay with them and spend time with them afterwards before they are collected.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'm fully aware of what happens to the "carcase" (lovely use of language by the way) after the horse is dead. It doesn't change the fact that I would like to be with my horse when the time comes and afterwards before they are taken away.
I couldn't bring myself to stand there and watch them shot. It would be distressing to me and this could in turn cause distress to my horse. Nor could I personally hand them to a stranger.
Some horses bleed very little, others bleed a lot. Having seen the aftermath of a horse shot by a gun recently, some definitely can and do bleed a lot.
It's personal choice at the end of the day. It would be my preference for my horses to go by injection so that I can stay with them and spend time with them afterwards before they are collected.

It is indeed personal choice, I don't think anyone has said anything different, as is the choice of language used to describe the process. Which word would you prefer rather than 'carcase'? 'Dead body'? They mean exactly the same!

 

[milliepops]

i understand what you are saying PAS and I am happy to be matter of fact about the subject, but for most people their horse is a pet that they feel sentimental about even in death. so "body" would be perfectly suitable, and probably preferable to take account of that sensitivity in general chat... in the same way that we don't call dead humans a carcass, it's usually a body when people talk about e.g. the undertaker.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

i understand what you are saying PAS and I am happy to be matter of fact about the subject, but for most people their horse is a pet that they feel sentimental about even in death. so "body" would be perfectly suitable, and probably preferable to take account of that sensitivity in general chat... in the same way that we don't call dead humans a carcass, it's usually a body when people talk about e.g. the undertaker.

Some of us deal with the trauma of having to have a horse, or any other pet, pts by being matter of fact about it. The false, sickly sentimentality drives me nuts!

Already on this thread, it has been suggested that we don't talk about what happens if the hunt/zoo deals with the disposal and now we are being asked to use specially chosen words!

Next we'll be saying that the horse 'passed away' another phrase that annoys me. Even people '*die* and being mealy-mouthed about it doesn't change a thing.

 

[milliepops]

different strokes for different folks. It's a very emotive subject for some people, i don't find it a hardship to deal with the language that people prefer if it's as simple as that

 

[Pearlsasinger]

different strokes for different folks. It's a very emotive subject for some people, i don't find it a hardship to deal with the language that people prefer if it's as simple as that

If I were speaking to an individual that I knew couldn't cope with realism, I would be happy to use language that they can feel comfortable with but on a forum, we *all* have to remember 'different strokes for different folks' and shouldn't demand that others change their approach for us.

 

[Birker2020]

I agree I wouldn't want my horses' last experience to be the haze of sedation. One of our current horses really doesn't like being sedated and my personal experience is that it is a very unpleasant feeling.

You could say that about any domestic creature put to sleep that way though.
If you were 'allowed' (and I know this is done in hunt kennels) would you prefer a pet dog shot? I know I wouldn't.

For those reading this that are now saddened that any animal they have ever owned has been in an unpleasant feeling haze prior to being pts or can feel that they are 'going' when lethal injection is performed, I don't know how we can quantify this. This is only heresay and guess work.

IMHO it is over so quickly that before they have even managed to fathom what is happening (if they do reason like that) then they are gone. They don't have any preconceptions of dying, they don't know they are about to.

I once asked a vet which is the quickest, pts with gun/humane captive bolt or lethal injection. He said that the horse is literally 'dead' before it hits the ground, whether that is dead, dead in the case of gun, or unconcious and not aware in the case of lethal injection before the heart stops.

To the OP - If you are present for a euthanasia, it is helpful to know a few things ahead of time that can happen during the process. The first is that sometimes, a horse may gasp when it is euthanized. This is called an agonal breath, and typically occurs after the horse has already passed away. This is a natural reflex and it is important to realize that the horse is not in any distress if this occurs. It is also important to realize that the eyes of the horse will not close after they have passed. Lastly, when a horse falls to the ground, while being euthanized, the fall is not always graceful and it happens fast.

Thinking of you at this difficult time. x

 

[Gallop_Away]

Well said millipops. Some people are clearly very matter of fact about death which of course is fine. However given the sensitive nature of the topic, people could chose their words more carefully.

 

[Tiddlypom]

PaS, you seem to be in an unusually combative mood.

To talk of humans 'passing away' is common terminology these days, though you seem to despise the term as being 'mealy mouthed' and only appropriate for those who can't deal with realism.

Maybe take a chill pill .

 

[milliepops]

there are actually studies detailing the length of time that each bodily function takes to cease after various methods of euthanasia. i went down a rabbit hole earlier after reading a post on Horse Vet Corner about injecting lidocane into the spinal column as an alternative to the normal pentobarbital.

 

[rabatsa]

Gallop_Away I am still getting over the very traumatic vet pts of a much loved animal. This is not the thread for details but it is an hour and a quarter that I would never wish to repeat.

Once life has left the "body", by whatever means the end result is the same no matter what occurred beforehand.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Gallop_Away I am still getting over the very traumatic vet pts of a much loved animal. This is not the thread for details but it is an hour and a quarter that I would never wish to repeat.

Once life has left the "body", by whatever means the end result is the same no matter what occurred beforehand.

I am so sorry for your loss.

I was simply making the point that not everyone is matter of fact about losing a much loved pet, and while realistically the end result is the same, people must chose the best method for their horse and indeed themselves.

My reasons for not wanting any or mine to go by gun are my own entirely, and based on what suits my horses and myself. I couldn't be with them whilst they are shot. I don't think I could compose myself and would hate for my horses to pick up on that and cause them upset. Also as I said afterwards I would like to spend time with them afterwards, and while I understand some don't bleed much, I don't want my last memory to be my beautiful horse's faces covered in blood. It's just my own personal feelings on the matter and the fact that my horses will be "gone" doesn't change that.

Just to add also on the subject of collection. I recall someone posted on here about a collection and cremation service that uses a stretcher to collect the body instead of the winch. The body is put on the stretcher, and then the stretcher is winched on to the lorry. I believe they are based in Wales. Might be helpful to those of us who are mealy mouthed folk

 

[Gallop_Away]

http://equinecremationsouthwales.co.uk/

Found it xx

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

It is indeed personal choice, I don't think anyone has said anything different, as is the choice of language used to describe the process. Which word would you prefer rather than 'carcase'? 'Dead body'? They mean exactly the same!

Personally I would prefer them to use deceased horse.
As that was someone's pet and family member. We don't use carcase on dogs and cats when they are pts.

 

[Boulty]

Totally personal preference / what's best for the horse. I'd always thought I'd probably have the second one shot as he hated needles & vets but due to how headshy he became due to his physical issues & some of his behaviour related to this (rearing if any pressure put on his poll) opted to go for injection after dormosedan & enough iv sedation to floor an elephant (not sure the yard he was on at the time would have allowed me to have him shot anyway). He still did his level best to try & fall onto the vet rather than away from. His last act of awkwardness I guess

 

[maisie06]

I'm fully aware of what happens to the "carcase" (lovely use of language by the way) after the horse is dead. It doesn't change the fact that I would like to be with my horse when the time comes and afterwards before they are taken away.
I couldn't bring myself to stand there and watch them shot. It would be distressing to me and this could in turn cause distress to my horse. Nor could I personally hand them to a stranger.
Some horses bleed very little, others bleed a lot. Having seen the aftermath of a horse shot by a gun recently, some definitely can and do bleed a lot.
It's personal choice at the end of the day. It would be my preference for my horses to go by injection so that I can stay with them and spend time with them afterwards before they are collected.

It is a carcass, but as you say it's personal choice. I have had 2 shot one injected of th 2 I had shot one was so needlephobic he was actually dangerous, he never took any notice of the gun on his face but the chap who did him had been in the business for many years and was a true horseman. At the end of the day it's not an easy job to despatch and dispose of big animals whichever route you choose and if an owner is an emotional wreck it's probably best they are not present at either and hand the horse to a calm and trusted person, there is nothing wrong with that either. I'm pretty pragmatic having been around farm livestock - there's always deadstock but horses tend to be treated more as pets, again nothing wrog with that, different people diffrent view, do what's right for you.

 

[Gallop_Away]

It is a carcass, but as you say it's personal choice. I have had 2 shot one injected of th 2 I had shot one was so needlephobic he was actually dangerous, he never took any notice of the gun on his face but the chap who did him had been in the business for many years and was a true horseman. At the end of the day it's not an easy job to despatch and dispose of big animals whichever route you choose and if an owner is an emotional wreck it's probably best they are not present at either and hand the horse to a calm and trusted person, there is nothing wrong with that either. I'm pretty pragmatic having been around farm livestock - there's always deadstock but horses tend to be treated more as pets, again nothing wrog with that, different people diffrent view, do what's right for you.

Again as I said as an owner you need to decide what is best for the horse and yourself in this situation and clearly it is better to have a needlephobic horse shot.

I also completely agree as I said above that I would not want to be present if one of mine were to be shot as I don't think I could keep composure and would not want the risk my horses picking up on this and becoming distressed themselves. However I personally wouldn't want their last moments to be with a stranger either. Again nothing wrong if others choose to do this but it is not my own choice.

I have nor criticised anyone who has chosen to have their horse shot. I have simply explained why that option isn't my own preference. I'm not sure why people are feeling the need to jump on my posts when like everyone else I have only given my own reasoning for prefering mine to go by injection.

Also again if we want to be pragmatic, yes it is a carcase, but most people do not refer to their dead pets in that way, and were this thread about having a dog, cat, hamster etc pts I doubt that word would be considered appropriate for such a topic.

 

[ycbm]

If you were 'allowed' (and I know this is done in hunt kennels) would you prefer a pet dog shot? I know I wouldn't

Yes, and cats. I see no attraction at all to either of those species to having a leg shaved and a needle inserted. I'd much rather they got a bullet they can't even see through the back of the head.
.

 

[TheMule]

Having watched many horses expertly shot at the abattoir, I prefer it as a method as it is so quick. However, I like to be with mine when they go and I personally can’t cope with the sudden loud bang, so mine go by injection. I don’t like it, my old boy really panicked and heaved, but he did drop quickly so I'm not sure he was actually conscious of anything.

 

[criso]

I can't even remember the 'bang' so it couldn't have been that dramatic. I turned my back and when I turned back you could see from his eyes, he was gone. I'd decided to let my other horse see the body as he would get anxious as soon as Frankie was led out and didn't relax until he came back so had to try something. (It worked) That meant I had to look at him and it was tough seeing him with no expression but it also meant that I knew he had gone instantly.

I'm one of the people that didn't want to sedate and I can say he didn't like it. He needed sedation at various times and got really grumpy, ears back muzzle curled and tried to fight it, shaking his head angrily as he tried to come out and then sinking back as the sedation took over. The good thing was he was so good with vets, he didn't need sedating very often as we could do most procedures without.

 

[southerncomfort]

there are actually studies detailing the length of time that each bodily function takes to cease after various methods of euthanasia. i went down a rabbit hole earlier after reading a post on Horse Vet Corner about injecting lidocane into the spinal column as an alternative to the normal pentobarbital.

We had one PTS recently and it took a good 3 minutes for her heart to stop completely. It was still very peaceful as she'd been sedated beforehand. She was only taking three or four breaths a minute and was completely unaware of anything. The vet was on the verge of getting another syringe when her heart finally stopped.

I must admit it shocked me a bit and I felt a bit weird about it for a while (actually i still feel a bit weird about it now) as the 2 previous ponies were gone before they hit they hit the ground.

I've no idea why she took so long.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I've no idea why she took so long.

Her circulation might have been very poor. I had a cat put to sleep once that had final stage kidney disease. The vet was able to inject him then I held him until he went. Usually as the injection goes in they are gone.

 

[milliepops]

the studies i looked at this morning did have a fair bit of variation. i would guess the individual's physiological state may play into it. The thing i was looking into, using lidocane instead of pentobarbital, takes much much longer but apparently there are some states in the US where pentobarbital is not permitted for certain methods of disposal so it's suggested as an alternative. (should add the protocols said the horse should be anaesthetised before lidocane was administered so they weren't conscious while it took effect).

hard to think about the nitty gritty sometimes, when it's a horse you've been very fond of. With my gelding this year i had to remind myself that it was better to do in a controlled planned way rather than find he'd had an accident.

 

[rara007]

As a rough estimate I’ve probably been there for 2500 animal euthanasias now. I’ve seen my share of ‘bad’ ones and many very smooth. Even my needle shy pony will be injected unless there’s a longer wait for that and time is critical. It’s just what I’m comfortable with. Sedation if needed but otherwise ‘straight’ Somulose via IV cannula.

 

[Orangehorse]

In some areas they can be fed to hounds if your local hunt have a fallen stock service

Our hunt doesn't have a fallen stock service any more. They will take carcases if you can get them there, which means that it is mostly farmers who take deadstock in.