Heavy riders, who should speak out and when*spin off*

[Big Ben]

It's no secret that I came over here following the hysteria over the Fuller Fillies 22" saddle, and the larger riders posting pics on an American based forum. I have been thinking a lot about this issue, and would like to discuss another point. I may be, probably am, whistling in the wind, when I ask that people try and stay polite and nearly on topic, but, hey ho, a girl has to try.

There is obviously a huge divide in what people find acceptable both between countries, and different people within countries. It is a subject that sometimes brings out hateful and poisonous remarks in the safety and relative anonymity of message boards, but when and where, who and how should the issue be addressed.

Often times people say that their vet/trainer etc say that they are fine, is that because they are the customer, and people don't want to lose the business?

What about the lady who has shared pictures of her at 275 pounds competing in competitive trail rides, should the vets and or judges be telling her she is to big, or is the fact that her horse passes the vetting proof that it is OK?

I compete in video dressage competitions, and have only ever had one remark, and that was for my last test, when i had gained a lot of weight and lost condition, due to knee surgery back in the summer, and that was Cesar Parra saying "remember you need to be fit to ride dressage" totally valid point.

OK, people said I was brave sharing this pic, but I don't call it brave, I feel fine on this boy, my trainer says I'm fine, he is still in training so we haven't been judged yet, but if he was ready I would compete him, Intro level dressage, maybe training.

Now this is brave, I have only ridden this girl once, and although my trainer says we are fine, I'm not sure. She is one for next year.

This photo prompted some of these thoughts, I know that people were upset with some riders shown, but this is in a different category, I don't know who this person is, but this is a different level of weight carrying than any of the folk that posted before.

That does not look OK in anyway to me, and I wonder how people can ride with him and not say something, maybe they do speak up and he ignores them anyway, who knows..

Point is, who should speak up, when and how? It is easy to set weight limits for your own horse, and refuse others to ride, but what on their own horse, would you say something to me in real life, if you saw me on Ben, or Willow? Would you speak up if the gentleman posted turned up to ride with you?

At competitions, should judges be allowed to exclude people for a bad fit, should on site vets call it.. over to you

 

[FfionWinnie]

The guy with the hi viz on appears to be about to fall off sideways so perhaps the riders don't know any better. The grey is ludicrous. Hopefully the guy sees the pics and gets off. Utterly terrible. I couldn't see your pics.

If I saw the guy on the grey I couldn't not say anything.

 

[YorksG]

Hate to be picky, but the fuller fillies saddle was 22"
I think it is a problem knowing when to say something, but if the rider was like the bloke you posted and so obviously too heavy, for an incidentaly too thin horse, then I would indeed say something. With others, it may be that a tactful comment about not riding too far, or for too long would be enough.
With regard to competition, I think most list judges would indeed speak up and you can bet a pound to a penny the pair would not be placed, which may help to get the message across.

 

[dumpling]

Oh my goodness, the man on that grey. That's shocking. I'd've shoved him off if I was there!

I don't think I've seen anyone morbidly obese at shows riding, it's not something that's brought up , I think it would only be brought up if the horse was obviously in pain, not coping. I'm talking about showing and dressage, I've never really seen a 'larger' person show jump. Definitely competition wise if the horse doesn't look happy or like its giving its 'all' due to the size of the rider something should be said or horse and rider put down the line.

 

[dressedkez]

There are heavy riders and those who ride light - a heavy person can ride light (if in balance with the horse) and light rider can ride heavy if not........

 

[Big Ben]

Hate to be picky, but the fuller fillies saddle was 22"

*Whistles innocently* that's what I said

 

[debsey1]

Poor poor horse I would be utterly shocked if I saw someone of this size on a horse. I would certainly say something I wouldn't be able to keep quiet

 

[Little Fat Pony]

Point is, who should speak up, when and how? It is easy to set weight limits for your own horse, and refuse others to ride, but what on their own horse, would you say something to me in real life, if you saw me on Ben, or Willow? Would you speak up if the gentleman posted turned up to ride with you?

At competitions, should judges be allowed to exclude people for a bad fit, should on site vets call it.. over to you

IMO, everyone/anyone should speak up, if they feel they should. There's no need to be harsh or cruel and go in all guns blazing, there are ways around it.

If I saw that man riding I would say something. That is just cruel, and there is no way that he can actually think he is an acceptable weight to ride.

I think vets/judges should exclude people, and tell them straight "you are too heavy", it's not fair on the horse otherwise. I think thats where part of the problem stems from, people are afraid to open their mouths and speak out.

Off topic but I had the vet out for my horses vaccinations the other day and he said weight wise he's perfect but he needs more topline, which I already knew, so agreed with him and had a conversation about it. He said I was one of the only people who doesn't take offence when he critises their horse, and it confused me. Do people genuinely get upset when a vet critiques their horse? Surely if a vet says your horse is overweight/underweight you know it's in the horses best interests? In this respect I think it should be the same for people. I can understand people getting upset if someone rudely said they were too heavy, but if someone worded it politely, then I see no problem with that.

Sorry, I dont even think I've answered your question, but it is thought-provoking

 

[Little Fat Pony]

I think it is a problem knowing when to say something, but if the rider was like the bloke you posted and so obviously too heavy, for an incidentaly too thin horse, then I would indeed say something. With others, it may be that a tactful comment about not riding too far, or for too long would be enough.
With regard to competition, I think most list judges would indeed speak up and you can bet a pound to a penny the pair would not be placed, which may help to get the message across.

That is exactly what I think, just worded 10 times better than my earlier post

 

[FfionWinnie]

*Whistles innocently* that's what I said

Funny it said 20" the first time I read it too.

 

[meesha]

I think if u r asking the ? And posting pics then u probably have doubts as to whether u should be riding the horses in the pics. They r your horses and it is your choice but just because the horse can carry u does it mean it should? I am no skinny myself and think u have to make your own decisions.

 

[YorksG]

Funny it said 20" the first time I read it too.

Thank goodness, I thought I was having a funny turn

 

[FfionWinnie]

Thank goodness, I thought I was having a funny turn

No funnier than usual

 

[RealityCheck]

There are heavy riders and those who ride light - a heavy person can ride light (if in balance with the horse) and light rider can ride heavy if not........

But you cannot physically make yourself weigh any less. A 300lb rider is always going to be 300lb, whether they have good seat and hands or not.

And for what it's worth, I would not be allowing the OP on any of my similarly built horses, but I guess that's personal choice.

 

[Bikerchickone]

Hmm, tricky questions to answer! I'm a heavier rider myself and I would say something to the man on the grey, partly because he is so obviously too heavy and the other part because the horse he's riding isn't fit and muscled up to help it cope with his bulk.

Seeing you out and about on the first of your two horses I don't think I'd have anything to say to you about it, assuming I wasn't seeing you galloping around like a mad thing and attempting 4' jumps. The mare I'm not so sure about, the photo is smaller and I think she looks a bit finer and longer in the back than your other horse so maybe I'd feel you shouldn't ride her. I'm a similar size to you though so that would make me reluctant to say anything. Personally I have two horses, one heavyweight irish cob standing at about 15hh whom I ride several times a week both hacking and schooling but no jumping because I don't like it, and the other is a 15.3hh IDxWB 5 year old who I won't ride at all yet because I know I'm too heavy for her. Some people might well think I was too heavy for my cob, however I know he is relatively fit and is comfortable carrying me working correctly in the school for dressage or working loosely out on a hack so I don't tend to worry about it. If for any reason I even thought he was uncomfortable or struggling then I wouldn't ride him any more until I'd shifted the weight, but of course shifting the weight isn't as easy as it sounds as some of us well know!

 

[YorksG]

No funnier than usual

Cheeky!

 

[ShadowFlame]

I think weight is a difficult one. Some finer horses carry weight better than you'd expect, and some cobs have conformation that means they don't carry weight quite so well. If the horse is happy and coping, there isn't really an issue. My lad is a 14.2/3ish 5 yr old cob, he's carried a 15st 6ft bloke before without batting an eyelid, but having said that he does have a lot of bone. I knew a cob a while ago, same size, not quite so heavy built (but not far off) and overweight. His owner was a "large" lady, and he slowly developed lameness that the vet couldn't pinpoint, along with a very bad back, to a point where he ended up on box rest for weeks at a time. He'd come sound again, but as soon as she got back on board he'd start hopping again, yet he was fine with lighter riders. Do you say something? It's hard to know where your place is, and everyone will have a different opinion about it. However, if it's fairly obvious a horse is suffering as a result of the weight it's carrying, something should probably be said (or as someone else said, a helping push might not go amiss!).

 

[Dizzle]

How would you find a horse to fit a 22 inch saddle?

I want to get my OH riding lessons for Christmas, he's a 6ft2 former rugby player so he's not a small chap, but the closest place to him has a 15 stone weight limit, not sure how much he weighs but I doubt he's under 15 stone.

 

[Littlelegs]

If I saw that guy, I would have to go & smoke a few cigs & calm down, as my immediate response would get me arrested for gbh. What a truly vile & twisted way to treat an animal.
In the past I have told people they are too big in an instructors capacity. And once refused to teach a very heavy teen with a tiny scrawny pony, when my reasoning was ignored. And with one or two others. Not randomly approaching them shouting abuse. But along the lines of when we've been talking anyway & they've brought up either some riding issue or even their weight themselves.
And not necessarily obese people. I once pointed out to a lady of 12stone & 6' that riding her kids elderly shettie to the field was not the 'laugh' she thought it was. A few on that forum I would have to bite my lip while I rephrased my initial thoughts. Not out of any desire to save feelings, but in the hope I might be listened to.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Jaysus, the grey should be riding the bloke! The rider is way too fat, let's stop mincing words here, not heavy, not well built, plain ruddy fat. (I say this as a fat person myself) I hate these stupid terms I've seen bandied about: fluffy? Dream on, fat is the word.

I know I am way too fat, even for the boy in my sig, even though the farrier, physio etc keep saying I'm fine. There's no horse, IMO, that I should be getting on right now and OP, I'm sorry, you are a lot bigger than me, so IMO, way too big to ride any horse currently. (And no, I'm not an 8 stone dripping wet, size 10 body dismorphia, am I too big for my mammoth type, honest!)

I think anyone (female) over about 16/17 stone should be seriously asking why they are that weight unless there's a medical issue and trying to do something about it, up to and including extreme surgery if they have really tried and failed with every dieting avenue.

 

[Starbucks]

There are heavy riders and those who ride light - a heavy person can ride light (if in balance with the horse) and light rider can ride heavy if not........

I don't understand this at all - if you are heavy you are heavy!!

In answer to OP, it should be down to rider responsibility. Otherwise maybe a kind word from the judge saying "I think you might be slightly under horsed".

It's all horses for courses.

 

[mandwhy]

I think the first of your two horses looks to be coping fine anyway OP. Even the second one I wouldn't say you look THAT drastically too heavy but that's my opinion as a fairly heavyish person, probably wouldn't suggest taking up puissance or anything

To be honest I would find it very difficult to tell someone they are too heavy for their horse, just as I don't really like to stick my nose in, I find horsey people often a bit too forthright with their opinions.

I think certainly vets at shows should be able to exclude people and that should get the message across, but I wouldn't want this to lead to the usual weight nazis going round imposing weight limits on people's OWN horses, it's bad enough that riding schools have the weight limits that they do despite having horses perfectly capable. If it was genuinely based on individuals that would be fine. Judges... well they seem to have some funny ideas about what is an appropriate weight for a horse so wouldn't like them to comment on people too, but perhaps feedback could be tactfully given.

The guy on the grey, well I'd be surprised if that horse is not displaying some sort of physical problem when ridden so I'd probably suggest he take it home and give it a rest, and send him adverts of horses I think he might like!

 

[dressedkez]

I don't understand this at all - if you are heavy you are heavy!!

In answer to OP, it should be down to rider responsibility. Otherwise maybe a kind word from the judge saying "I think you might be slightly under horsed".

It's all horses for courses.

Rubbish..... an 8 stone person can ride at 12 stone if they are not in balance with their horse.

 

[RealityCheck]

Rubbish..... an 8 stone person can ride at 12 stone if they are not in balance with their horse.

Yes, but you cannot make yourself lighter - unless one of the benefits of being fat is the superpower of gravity manipulation?

300lb is never going to be any lighter or less damaging.

 

[Flame_]

The question is whose place it is to speak out? Do welfare organizations have any responsibility to act on complaints about horses expected to carry too much weight? Whenever anyone has general welfare concerns, the advice is usually "report it". Can anything be done about a big fat person riding a too small horse?

Obviously on forums its a place for airing opinions but in RL I don't think I'd have any right to tell anyone to stop riding their horse unless it was on my property (which would be hard because I don't have a property ) or if I had judging or training responsibilities (again, hard as I'm not a judge or trainer).

If this isn't grounds for the welfare charities to step in then it might be time they considered looking into it since people are getting fatter and sooner or later its going to be a frequent issue.

 

[Starbucks]

Rubbish..... an 8 stone person can ride at 12 stone if they are not in balance with their horse.

An 8 stone rider can ride badly or well, a 18 stone rider can ride badly or well. My money is on the 8 stone rider being fitter and more inbalance with themselves, never mind the horse.

As someone else said, you can only make yourself heavier, not lighter!

 

[Littlelegs]

There isn't really a 'right' to mention it unless in professional capacity. But a moral one, yes. If I saw someone batter a horse with a whip, or riding a lame horse I'd say something because I can't stand by & watch an animal hurt. Being far too heavy is no different. I don't generally go round interfering with people, but cruelty is different.

 

[dressedkez]

Yes, but you cannot make yourself lighter - unless one of the benefits of being fat is the superpower of gravity manipulation?

300lb is never going to be any lighter or less damaging.

Yes, that is a good point well made, but the point I am trying to make is that a a good 'heavy rider' will always ride better than a poor 'light rider'. We all have seeen those that lean on the back on the saddle, slump in the saddle and so not have a clue.....Sadly, due to my working life - I have probabaly gained about 3 stone over the past three years - but I still ride relatively light, due to past riding experience.

 

[YorksG]

Yes, that is a good point well made, but the point I am trying to make is that a a good 'heavy rider' will always ride better than a poor 'light rider'. We all have seeen those that lean on the back on the saddle, slump in the saddle and so not have a clue.....Sadly, due to my working life - I have probabaly gained about 3 stone over the past three years - but I still ride relatively light, due to past riding experience.

But not as lightly as you did when you were 3 stone lighter, in fact you will ride 3 stone heavier.

 

[devonlass]

I'll be honest none of those pics look 'fine' to me.Yours don't look too bad.First one the horse doesn't look too concerned,but very hard to tell from one snapshot in time,I don't think you as a rider look comfortable and balanced though.You may well ride perfectly fine BTW,but the look suggests you could not be as agile,effective and as secure as you would be if carrying less weight.Like mentioned before though hard to tell from a pic.Second one is a bit too small for me to see it very well.

I hope you don't take this as rude OP and feel free to ignore,but I am going to guess you are in excess of 16-17st weight wise?? I think when you are getting into those kind of weights (and assuming that weight is fat not muscle before anyone with a rugby player husband jumps on me!!),it should be time to start considering addressing it not only for your horses benefit but for your health as well.
I'm not saying you should or shouldn't ride that isn't my place,but there has to be a cut off IMO for riding any horse for regular and proper work.Is down to you to decide where that is.

As for the guy in the last ones,well I wouldn't just say something,I'd be hauling his great big lard @rse off the poor pony


Slightly O/T but few years ago I was worried about my pony's comfort carrying me so decided to tackle my weight.Took nearly a year and a complete change of eating habits and attitude to exercise but I lost over 3 stone and have kept most of it off ever since.It can be done,and ultimately was a far simpler approach than constantly questioning and berating myself for being too heavy to ride.
IME addressing the cause of a problem is by far the simplest and most effective way of dealing with it