Heavy riders, who should speak out and when*spin off*

[Starbucks]

Yes, that is a good point well made, but the point I am trying to make is that a a good 'heavy rider' will always ride better than a poor 'light rider'. We all have seeen those that lean on the back on the saddle, slump in the saddle and so not have a clue.....Sadly, due to my working life - I have probabaly gained about 3 stone over the past three years - but I still ride relatively light, due to past riding experience.

So all larger riders are good riders, there are no bad ones? I bit like all fat women are "real", have a much better personality and are more attractive to men than "stick insects"?

Get a grip!

 

[Trinity Fox]

Yes I think we should speak out the guy on the grey is a joke and who would see that and say nothing, I think op you are far too big for both of those horses and would not allow it if they were mine.

For some reason we seem to have a situation where it is a taboo subject, if you are too heavy then you have to accept that and think about the horse, I restrict what I eat alot and if my weight creeps up I diet purely for the sake of the horses I am riding. I think it is incredibly selfish to expect your horse to lug around all that weight.

Recently at an event I was at, there was several very overweight riders on horses not up to it, a letter was written to the paper by somebody stating some very valid points, there was then a response of the horses are happy with it, horses were bred to carry weights and several references to higlands carrying stags and horses being used to carry massive weights in the past etc etc, and friends of said people showing support, when they should kindly tell the truth and state when a rider really is too big.

I have refused to let people I feel are too heavy try horses when I have been selling, I feel very strongly that if you really want to ride and are thinking about the horse you will wait until you have lost weight before you ride.

I do not think you need to be nasty about it but do think we should stop pussy footing around the issue. It is better for health reasons not to be so large but I have no issue with people being whatever size they want or having any lifestyle they wish but that changes when that is forced on an animal who has no choice in the matter.

 

[Littlelegs]

But dressed kez, that only works between relatively similar weights. 8 stone will never feel like 20, no matter how awful they ride.
And where did this attitude that many light riders are unbalanced, bouncing riders whilst all heavy riders are balanced & competent originate from? That's certainly not my experience.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

There isn't really a 'right' to mention it unless in professional capacity. But a moral one, yes. If I saw someone batter a horse with a whip, or riding a lame horse I'd say something because I can't stand by & watch an animal hurt. Being far too heavy is no different. I don't generally go round interfering with people, but cruelty is different.

I might mention if I thought one of the kids at the RS was too big for a horse, but where do you draw the line and what else would you discuss?

There's a new horse at the yard, total dope on a rope from what I've seen so far. I saw him being ridden after the proud new owner had been to a tack shop (she asked me if I could help fit a saddle, I told her to get a professional out, at least she did this, thank God) He has on a grackle. I asked why they chose this bridle, does he cross his jaw, get his tongue over the bit....? No, she liked the look of it. Just depresses me. Cruelty or doesn't matter? I would always start with a snaffle and work up if needed, but is it cruelty?

 

[dressedkez]

So all larger riders are good riders, there are no bad ones? I bit like all fat women are "real", have a much better personality and are more attractive to men than "stick insects"?

Get a grip!

I am strugggling with the point you are making - are you being 'fattest' or 'thinnest'? Are you saying becuase I have got fatter.... I should be giving up the horses.....perhaps? Of course fat riders, as well as thin ones are bad riders.....but those who were once good riders, cannot be good, because they have got fatter? Blimey, might have to end it all tomorrow !!!

 

[devonlass]

Rubbish..... an 8 stone person can ride at 12 stone if they are not in balance with their horse.

Sorry but you can't possibly say that with accuracy,how did you determine this exactly??

12 stone is 12 stone,balanced or not.

Why do we think that horses feel less weight just because the rider is more skilled?? It might bounce around less,or more elegantly but the weight remains what it is,it simply cannot 'feel' less than what it is

Heavier people (and I class myself in this still as no 8 stone light weight even now),are sure to struggle more with balance and agility than lighter people of a similar ability.I know I do,add age into the equation and I'm practically decrepid but that's another story lol

 

[Littlelegs]

Ct, I think it depends on the level of suffering. I don't have a standard rule, I go off each case individually. The situation you mention I wouldn't say anything, unless they approached me for schooling help, as while I feel its unfair, its not cruel imo.

 

[mhorses]

No chance on earth would I be seen dead wearing jods if I was the size of a whale.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Ct, I think it depends on the level of suffering. I don't have a standard rule, I go off each case individually. The situation you mention I wouldn't say anything, unless they approached me for schooling help, as while I feel its unfair, its not cruel imo.

Other than asking why they had bought a grackle, I have not said anything. I don't think the pony is suffering, it's not my business and there are plenty of instructors etc around if anything untoward occurs.

 

[devonlass]

No chance on earth would I be seen dead wearing jods if I was the size of a whale.

Well it doesn't get more to the point than that lol

Personally I always feel the size of a whale in jods,swear they are designed to make everyone feel that way!!

 

[dressedkez]

Sorry but you can't possibly say that with accuracy,how did you determine this exactly??

12 stone is 12 stone,balanced or not.

Why do we think that horses feel less weight just because the rider is more skilled?? It might bounce around less,or more elegantly but the weight remains what it is,it simply cannot 'feel' less than what it is

Heavier people (and I class myself in this still as no 8 stone light weight even now),are sure to struggle more with balance and agility than lighter people of a similar ability.I know I do,add age into the equation and I'm practically decrepid but that's another story lol

But if you are an experienced horse person, you do your self an injustice here - what ever you weigh (within usual boundaries - and based on the horse you ride) than you will be able to ride a 12HH as well as you can sit on an 18HH. It is not so much about weight carrying capacity, but how you balance with the horse - when I was 15 years I could ride 10HH to 18HH - but the upper height I rode less well, Now I am almost 50 than I struggle with 10HH, but I could still ride 12HH for 30 mins and not break it - because I still have balance, I could also ride 18HH better, than I could at 15 years, because I have a little more 'gravity'.
Fat people should not ride horses per se, but please don't start having a fat ometer - where if you are 9 stone you ride a TB (max) and 14 stone it has to be a Shire, and any heavier than that - well just don't bother.......

 

[Littlelegs]

I'd probably do the same Ct.

 

[Rose Folly]

It's a really difficult question. That huge guy on the little grey Araby horse looked appalling. But throughout the ages, in the Uk and Europe, it was common for ladies, children to ride pillion. So you put up your 11 stone man, with his 9 stone wife riding pillion, and you probably have a greater weight than the big guy in the pic. And horses coped with it. As has been pointed out in other threads, Highland ponies bring down the stags off the hill - probably 16 stone+. The Dales ponies were bred to carry lead from the mines at Alston, high on the Northumberland fells, down to the docks at Newcastle. They carried two paniers with 8 stone of lead in each pannier; I believe the distance is about 29 miles, and they were capable of trotting a lot of the way.

I don't think it helps to speak out unless you have very definite proof that the horse is suffering - not just because you think it doesn't look dainty.

He also looks totally unbalanced, whereas OP looks fine on her horse. The point about being heavy/riding light and being light/riding heavy is a very valid point.

 

[meesha]

I think we are much too focused on how a rider looks on the horse when the real question is what weight would that horse comfortably carry! All the horses shown I would guess would be happy with up to 14/15 stone but I would question anymore on them but I am not sure I would comment, it depends on circumstances (although would have to be held back from man on grey)

 

[Big Ben]

Here goes the multi quote queen, but first thanks to everyone who has posted so far, and have honestly shared their thoughts.

I think if u r asking the ? And posting pics then u probably have doubts as to whether u should be riding the horses in the pics. They r your horses and it is your choice but just because the horse can carry u does it mean it should? I am no skinny myself and think u have to make your own decisions.

No I wasn't actually asking about me and the big guy, as I said I'm fine on him on our current walk, trot, 20 mins 2 or 3 times a week with ground work in between. The small pic, well yeah my personal jury is out on her.

Hmm, tricky questions to answer! I'm a heavier rider myself and I would say something to the man on the grey, partly because he is so obviously too heavy and the other part because the horse he's riding isn't fit and muscled up to help it cope with his bulk.

Seeing you out and about on the first of your two horses I don't think I'd have anything to say to you about it, assuming I wasn't seeing you galloping around like a mad thing and attempting 4' jumps. The mare I'm not so sure about, the photo is smaller and I think she looks a bit finer and longer in the back than your other horse so maybe I'd feel you shouldn't ride her. I'm a similar size to you though so that would make me reluctant to say anything.

That's another issue, would I feel like a hypocrite if I was riding Bid Ben and said something to the guy on the grey? IDK. and you are not likely to find me galloping or jumping anything, not at this weight and unlikely at a lighter weight, I have this broad yellow streak down my back.

In the past I have told people they are too big in an instructors capacity. And once refused to teach a very heavy teen with a tiny scrawny pony, when my reasoning was ignored. And with one or two others. Not randomly approaching them shouting abuse. But along the lines of when we've been talking anyway & they've brought up either some riding issue or even their weight themselves.
And not necessarily obese people. I once pointed out to a lady of 12stone & 6' that riding her kids elderly shettie to the field was not the 'laugh' she thought it was. A few on that forum I would have to bite my lip while I rephrased my initial thoughts. Not out of any desire to save feelings, but in the hope I might be listened to.

Nice post and good thoughts.

I think the first of your two horses looks to be coping fine anyway OP. Even the second one I wouldn't say you look THAT drastically too heavy but that's my opinion as a fairly heavyish person, probably wouldn't suggest taking up puissance or anything

LOL, no puissance ambitions, maybe many years ago, but not anymore.

To be honest I would find it very difficult to tell someone they are too heavy for their horse, just as I don't really like to stick my nose in, I find horsey people often a bit too forthright with their opinions.

I think certainly vets at shows should be able to exclude people and that should get the message across, but I wouldn't want this to lead to the usual weight nazis going round imposing weight limits on people's OWN horses, it's bad enough that riding schools have the weight limits that they do despite having horses perfectly capable. If it was genuinely based on individuals that would be fine. Judges... well they seem to have some funny ideas about what is an appropriate weight for a horse so wouldn't like them to comment on people too, but perhaps feedback could be tactfully given.

The guy on the grey, well I'd be surprised if that horse is not displaying some sort of physical problem when ridden so I'd probably suggest he take it home and give it a rest, and send him adverts of horses I think he might like!

LOL

I'll be honest none of those pics look 'fine' to me.Yours don't look too bad.First one the horse doesn't look too concerned,but very hard to tell from one snapshot in time,I don't think you as a rider look comfortable and balanced though.You may well ride perfectly fine BTW,but the look suggests you could not be as agile,effective and as secure as you would be if carrying less weight.Like mentioned before though hard to tell from a pic.Second one is a bit too small for me to see it very well.

I hope you don't take this as rude OP and feel free to ignore,but I am going to guess you are in excess of 16-17st weight wise?? I think when you are getting into those kind of weights (and assuming that weight is fat not muscle before anyone with a rugby player husband jumps on me!!),it should be time to start considering addressing it not only for your horses benefit but for your health as well.
I'm not saying you should or shouldn't ride that isn't my place,but there has to be a cut off IMO for riding any horse for regular and proper work.Is down to you to decide where that is.

As for the guy in the last ones,well I wouldn't just say something,I'd be hauling his great big lard @rse off the poor pony

I do not take any honestly and politely put opinion as being rude, but thank you for checking. I am aware that I am not at my best as a rider when I am this weight, and I am standing on the cusp of a drastic change. I am going to be doing the weight loss surgery diet, without the surgery

The plan is in place, I just need to pull the trigger, and get on with it, it should give me a kick start to be able to work myself fit for next spring summer, when I hope I will feel comfortable to ride any of my horses, and to be able to compete Ben without a care in the world.

Heavier people (and I class myself in this still as no 8 stone light weight even now),are sure to struggle more with balance and agility than lighter people of a similar ability.I know I do,add age into the equation and I'm practically decrepid but that's another story lol

LOL, should we start worrying about old riders as well

 

[Littlelegs]

Dressed kez, it doesn't matter how well you ride, the laws of gravity dictate you cannot be lighter than you are. You can be a greater burden by riding badly, but not a lighter one by riding well.

 

[mhorses]

Sorry didn't realise that was you in the pics! I was 15 stone 6 years ago and now 10.5 stone thanks to weekly visits to slimming world for six long years. You should give it a go! I am the worst dieter ever, but you are very brave putting photos of yourself on here. I didn't ride until I cut down to 12 stone, good luck!
Mandy x

 

[Starbucks]

How about, if people just have to common sense to ride a suitably sized horse? It's really not rocket science!!

 

[Fii]

They r your horses and it is your choice but just because the horse can carry u does it mean it should? I am no skinny myself and think u have to make your own decisions.

This slightly confuses me ^^^^^^ My answer would be......um....yes! Unless you believe that nobody should ride horses!

 

[Big Ben]

How about, if people just have to common sense to ride a suitably sized horse? It's really not rocket science!!

It isn't that easy either, I say Ben is suitable for me, but others argue he isn't, so whose suitable to we go with?

 

[honetpot]

Yes 12 stone will always be 12 stone but anyone who has held a wriggling child, a dog that doesn't want to be bathed, or done a piggy back with soemone who doesn't help will know that 1 stone can feel like 5 if it doesn't sit still or doesn't help.
The guy on the grey is not only too heavy he is totally out of proportion to the horse so in now way would be able to shift his weight to assist his animal in carrying him. Mark Todd may not be too heavy for his horses but his long frame is a disadvantage but because he is extreemly skilled at shifting his weight and his frame he is not a hinderance to his horses. A novice rider of his height and weight would be.
The OP may be larger than some people would like but its what you do with the weight and how fit and well muscled the horse is. I see lots of lighter people riding who I wouldn't want anywhere near my animals as they bounce, yank and generally have no consideration for the animal they are riding.

 

[dressedkez]

Dressed kez, it doesn't matter how well you ride, the laws of gravity dictate you cannot be lighter than you are. You can be a greater burden by riding badly, but not a lighter one by riding well.

And you are basing that assumption on.......???!!
Sadly you are possibly not that expirienced in how horses / ponies are actually ridden in the main stream - how arrogant are you being in reality? Please do share with the rest of us your weight, and tell us how wonderful is that is, in your own brand of horsemanship??? Oh am I being too persnal here?? Heaven forbid!!!

 

[YorksG]

I am getting a bit confused here, the tone of this thread appears to have gone down the route of ' heavy people ride better than light people, so heavy people ride lighter than they are and light people ride heavier than they are'. Now this is just not the case ime, so not sure where the evidence is for this.

 

[indie999]

Quite a few riding schools in my area have weight limits and I think its 15 stone allocated to type of horse that could carry this maximum amount(Am sure heavier horse would carry a lot more). Look at Breton horses.

I would say alot of things in life have weight limits of what they can carry or pull even. But I suppose a study would need to be done as to the longevity of horses that carry heavier weights v same size horse carrying lighter weight.

I think the results would be obvious.

Why are humans asked to lose weight when they have ie joint problems prior to ie hip replacement, probably caused by being overweight in the first place. Excess weight causes joint problems so I am puzzled why someone wouldnt think that would apply to a horse as well.
Just because my dog has 4 legs it couldnt carry me.

I have been to the states 3 times and we notice how much bigger some americans are than at home although I think we are catching up with USA with obesity.
Perhaps thats more the norm for leisure horses? Go to india and horses pull huge loads.
What is the norm?

 

[Queenbee]

Yes, I think everyone should speak up for what they do and do not believe, life is too short not to. I am quite used to people expressing opinions that differ from mine, and sometimes they are posted on here, just because they are from behind a keyboard does not make them any less firmly held or pertinent.

Personally, words fail me that anyone would walk by that man and NOT say something about the condition of his horse and its weight carrying abilities in relation to him.

With regards to you, yes you are a larger person, but you seem to be fairly conscientious and pay thought to your weight and the effect it may or may not have on your horse. In the first picture, I would like to see your horse with a bit more topline which would help with his carrying you, but he is a big lad, and not in bad condition, and as you say he is a work in progress. In the second picture, it is a bit far away for me to really see, but if you value your trainers opinion and have doubts, discuss it with him/her.

I have personally developed a thick skin and I would rather speak my tongue than bite it. I doubt I would ever make a good judge as I would say what I think, I would be as polite about it as I could... but if I thought someone should not be in the show ring for whatever reason, condition of horse, weight of rider or soundness, I would ask them to leave the ring explaining my reasons.

Within a yard environment it can be difficult to say your peice without it causing friction and animosity, in such circumstances then a quick word in the YOs ear is best, but it is my firm belief that in whatever manner, such views should be expressed, but they should always be done for truly valid reasons and never out of spite or nastiness.

 

[Starbucks]

It isn't that easy either, I say Ben is suitable for me, but others argue he isn't, so whose suitable to we go with?

I think it is. I'd rather not even have to question it. I am a bit of a little person on a big horse, but someone asked me if I'd take their daughters 12.2 pony hunting the "sort it out", no way!!!

I think the hunter classification works quite well, a MW hunter is quite a big, chunky horse but not expected to carry more than 14 stone. Obviously coblets are a bit different, hence the use of common sense.

 

[Big Ben]

LOL, Queenbee, I was just going to quote you and you edited

Yes, big fella needs to improve his top line, and that is what we are working on when I'm not riding, as well as working on my bond with him, which after 2 lessons at the weekend, half ground work and half mounted, is based around stop saying,

"It's OK Ben, I'm here for you"

to

"For @#$%'$ sake Ben, GROW A PAIR"

It's already paying dividends

 

[Starbucks]

And you are basing that assumption on.......???!!
Sadly you are possibly not that expirienced in how horses / ponies are actually ridden in the main stream - how arrogant are you being in reality? Please do share with the rest of us your weight, and tell us how wonderful is that is, in your own brand of horsemanship??? Oh am I being too persnal here?? Heaven forbid!!!

Based on scientific fact I would imagine!!! Are you on another planet or what??

 

[Queenbee]

LOL, Queenbee, I was just going to quote you and you edited

Yes, big fella needs to improve his top line, and that is what we are working on when I'm not riding, as well as working on my bond with him, which after 2 lessons at the weekend, half ground work and half mounted, is based around stop saying,

"It's OK Ben, I'm here for you"

to

"For @#$%'$ sake Ben, GROW A PAIR"

It's already paying dividends

Lol, it sounds like my baby Ben who has just been backed this june I am sure you will get there and I note that you had an op on your knee, and am sure that the regular workout you both recieve will help both him with his topline and you to lose the weight you gained resting up after the op. He looks more than man enough to do the job

 

[Littlelegs]

Dressed kez, its not an assumption. The laws of gravity are well known last time I looked. No idea what's with your attitude or personal comments, I suggest you have a word with yourself. Seen as its obviously of interest to yourself, for reasons I can't begin to fathom, nor want to, I weighed 8'11 last time I checked. Which means I feel like 8'11 on a horses back. If I rode badly, as for some bizarre & unspecified reason you implied, I would be a greater burden. No idea why you seem to think my knowledge of gravity reflects my knowledge or experience of riding. Clearly you are having some issues.