Heavy riders, who should speak out and when*spin off*

[devonlass]

Fat people should not ride horses per se, but please don't start having a fat ometer - where if you are 9 stone you ride a TB (max) and 14 stone it has to be a Shire, and any heavier than that - well just don't bother.......

I am totally confused by your posts

You were on about rider weight feeling and being different based on rider ability or so I thought?? That is what I was responding to.A persons weight is what it is no matter what their riding ability,and i disagree that someone can feel 4 stone heavier or lighter based on skill as you seemed to be implying in your earlier post??
Balance and ability may well make the experience more pleasant for the horse and may look more elegant to an observer,but it does no alter the weight that is on the horses back.Personally I think it's an argument that get's trotted out to make ourselves feel better about being heavier riders.

I certainly never mentioned breed or size as I am a staunch advocate that weight carrying ability depends entirely on the horse as an individual and it's build and type,not on many hands it is or if it's a carthorse!!

H
I am standing on the cusp of a drastic change. I am going to be doing the weight loss surgery diet, without the surgery

The plan is in place, I just need to pull the trigger, and get on with it, it should give me a kick start to be able to work myself fit for next spring summer, when I hope I will feel comfortable to ride any of my horses, and to be able to compete Ben without a care in the world.

LOL, should we start worrying about old riders as well

Good for you!! I can't do drastic dieting,but I did manage to lose weight none the less,just took a while.Sure you will succeed once you make that move to do it and you will feel so much better not having to second guess yourself about riding all the time.My only regret about changing my eating 'lifestyle' was that i didn't so it years ago.

Let us know how you get on,and don't be afraid to yell if need a virtual kick up the bum for the diet doldrums

As for age well TBH I strongly suspect that will stop me riding before weight does,or at least my premature ageing in regard to things going wrong.Swear I hit 35 and started falling to bits,and haven't stopped since lol

Dressed kez, it doesn't matter how well you ride, the laws of gravity dictate you cannot be lighter than you are. You can be a greater burden by riding badly, but not a lighter one by riding well.

What i was trying to say in my waffling post above,but littlelegs has put it much more exact and precisely.

 

[Big Ben]

Lol, it sounds like my baby Ben who has just been backed this june I am sure you will get there and I note that you had an op on your knee, and am sure that the regular workout you both recieve will help both him with his topline and you to lose the weight you gained resting up after the op. He looks more than man enough to do the job

Oh we will get there, Ben is only a baby in his training, he was only started last year, as a 9 year old, so he can be opinionated at times, but he is smart, and once he knows you mean business, he is all business.

I am just starting to get really going again after the OP, I have had a year of limited mobility, so I have a lot of work to do, but I am looking forward to it.

 

[Brigadoon]

Lets be frank,the majority of overweight people eat too much and exercise too little. No one is forcing us to eat so many calories.... our horses certainly aren't. We all have a duty of care to our animals. Your handsome black horse looks very well looked after but sadly you are too heavy for him at present. A month of strict dieting and perhaps swimming ( since you have knee probs) would make a wealth of difference to your lad's life. Imagine by Christmas you could be wearing a size smaller breeches and knowing, if you kept it up, come spring you would be hopping on and off your other horse with ease as well.
I ain't no skinny and always have to be watching what I eat. I am sometimes asked to pop on something and never will if I feel I would be too big for it.

People will often say " Ohhh no your not" when asked if you are too big for a horse but it's because it's a huge taboo. No-one baulks about not letting an in-experienced/rubbish/harsh etc etc rider on our horses but we tip-toe around hefty riders.
Years ago horses did do many things such as carry/pull great weights..but that doesn't mean it was right and gives us carte blanche to heave our massive frames onto our noble friends.
As for that colossal man on that poor, skinny wee grey...I would shove him right off. A tiny shove would be all that it would need as he is so unbalanced.
That is down right cruelty.
OP, we can all lose weight and I hope you keep up with your bravery to pop on some slinky posts of you in the spring with your fabulous looking horses.

 

[brighteyes]

Mostly what Brigadoon said and also I would have pushed that fat guy on the grey off onto his fat arse and left him there. That picture is shameful. Arrogant *******

 

[Littlelegs]

I think really when it comes to deciding what's a suitable weight we should always stay within what we know is fine, rather than what might be fine, seen as horses can't speak. Eg daughters pony I wouldn't want more than 6stones on. She could probably manage 6.5, & I doubt 7 would kill her. But as I don't actually know, 6 stone would be the max as I'm 100% sure she's fine under that weight.

 

[ozpoz]

I do hate the reasoning that the horse is fine carrying a heavy rider because it "copes" perfectly well.
Yes, it doesn't buckle and splat, but what about the cummulative damage to joints? Is it ethical to knowingly cause joint damage by riding at too big a weight?

I think people need to be educated to recognise when a horse can move freely carrying a rider and when not. I haven't yet seen a picture of a large person on a horse that shows freedom of movement.

 

[Shysmum]

I have only got as far as seeing that severly obese man on the grey horse, and all I can say is I want to throw up. If I saw that in the UK (where it is unlikely to happen), I would have the police and RSPCA out immediately.

I find this subject very upsetting tbh - the poor horses are so good, they just carry on, even though their backs must be agony.

 

[Kat]

Answering the original question, I think vets at competitions, and doing vettings at endurance and eventing especially should speak up if someone is too heavy for their horse. Vets generally should say if a horse is struggling with weight or if performance issues are linked with rider weight.

I think instructors should address weight issues with clients.

I would be uncomfortable with judges tackling the issue as they seem to vary so much and have some odd ideas. Like the one that told Redmone's tiny whippett thin daughter she is too big for her chunky native. In practice though fatness will be a hindrance in showing and in dressage the pair will be marked down if it effects performance.

Would I personally say anything...... I think it would have to be pretty extreme for me to say something if the subject wasn't raised.

 

[Tinypony]

I think that you can normally get some idea if the rider is too heavy when you see them and the horse together in real life. The man on the grey - that's obvious. You and your gelding Op - I haven't seen you in motion, but the people who judge your video dressage have and I'd expect them to tell you if they saw a problem. However, I'm sure we all know that judges can come out with some daft ideas... I do think that the people responsible for an event have some duty of care to the horses though. Your filly is younger and a bit finer (judging from the photos you posted before) so I'm not sure about her. I'd be inclined to put her on the back burner until your fantastic dedicated approach to losing weight has shown some results. I think we owe it to our youngsters to cherish them a bit and hopefully then we will be riding them for many years to come. Is it acceptable to express those honest opinions?
I have mentioned to a friend that their horse appears to be struggling with their weight, it can maybe be put in terms of how I think that the horse would perform better if it doesn't seem to be a really bad problem. If I was faced with riding out with the guy on the grey, I'd decline and put my horse away. It would depend on the circumstances who I'd speak to about it, be it him, the person organising the ride for example.
I do agree that some riders ride "lighter" than others because they have better balance, but that can only go so far to offset too much weight.
But then, I'm getting to be a grumpy old woman these days. )

 

[ImmyS]

In my opinion, people, horses, any animals should not be overweight. And I believe people should be a healthy weight before even getting on horse, not even for the horses good but for their own. We go on about people not realising a fat horse when you see one, well it's the same with people, it doesn't take much to be overweight. My mum, a nurse, sees overweight people all the time complaining of 'asthma' and similar ailments when in fact they are just overweight. I weigh just over 9 and a half stone and I'm 5ft 8 and I'm by no means stick thin... There's no excuse for being overweight, whether horse or human and there's no excuse to inflict your weight on other creatures.

 

[Tinypony]

Mind you... a horse can appear to be carrying weight fine, but we do need to consider long-term damage. I used to help at an RDA school. They had a couple of big horses to use the the heavier riders (bigger than your gelding op) and cope the horses did. However in the couple of years I was there I watched two of them go from joining the school to retiring to light work due to back and other physical problems, so you can't help but wonder. After the second was sold as a light hack the school did reduce their weight limit to 14 stone. Before anyone jumps on that as being too light... it was also for the benefit of helpers who were finding it physically difficult to help the heavier riders on and off the horses.

 

[indie999]

In my opinion, people, horses, any animals should not be overweight. And I believe people should be a healthy weight before even getting on horse, not even for the horses good but for their own. We go on about people not realising a fat horse when you see one, well it's the same with people, it doesn't take much to be overweight. My mum, a nurse, sees overweight people all the time complaining of 'asthma' and similar ailments when in fact they are just overweight. I weigh just over 9 and a half stone and I'm 5ft 8 and I'm by no means stick thin... There's no excuse for being overweight, whether horse or human and there's no excuse to inflict your weight on other creatures.

Absolutely what I was getting at. If the OP has had an op on her knee (i think thats what she said) she would have been told to lose weight. She should try to lose it before squashing her horse, but I think she could do that quite easily. Unfortunately people make money out of horses so their welfare isnt always important, as long as the human is having a nice time. I watched a very good instructor give a lame horse a lesson who was clearly lame(it was). Money. It is quite obvious big things squash little things. The weight on that horses back and the grey I agree is even worse, its legs look like they are compensating but hey the fat guy thinks he is fab and thats all that matters. Its only a horse and there are more where they came from.A shire would be more suitable or Breton type. or Elephant.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Lets be frank,the majority of overweight people eat too much and exercise too little. No one is forcing us to eat so many calories.... our horses certainly aren't. We all have a duty of care to our animals. Your handsome black horse looks very well looked after but sadly you are too heavy for him at present. A month of strict dieting and perhaps swimming ( since you have knee probs) would make a wealth of difference to your lad's life. Imagine by Christmas you could be wearing a size smaller breeches and knowing, if you kept it up, come spring you would be hopping on and off your other horse with ease as well.
I ain't no skinny and always have to be watching what I eat. I am sometimes asked to pop on something and never will if I feel I would be too big for it.

*Like*

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

I think I could draw up a chart for everyone to go by as a guideline, infact I could market it and makes loads of money..... if your arse if bigger than your horses arse, you probably shouldn't be riding it!

 

[Cortez]

Gosh, people are being so polite. I would most certainly tell someone if I though they were very much too heavy for their (or any) horse, and have done so - but then that is part of my job sometimes (I do a bit of training and judging). The man on the grey horse would be prosecuted for animal cruelty if he was in this part of the world. OP, your horse is a grand big fella, but he is long and weak in the back; if I was you I would not be riding this horse, nor the other mare either, until I had lost the weight and put considerably more muscle over my horses loin.

 

[Littlelegs]

I think the reason it goes on, quite often unchallenged is because people are scared of hurting feelings, & commenting on a persons weight is taboo. I bet if my 5'10 self started turning up at shows or big busy riding schools, yards etc on a 12hh exmoor or cob, with my feet down near its knees, I'd get a fair few comments. Despite the fact I'd be ok weightwise. However if a shorter, 12 stone person rode the same pony, people would keep quiet. Don't get me wrong, my height would prevent a pony that size performing to its maximum ability, & I'd look rather odd. But I imagine less so than the heavier rider.

 

[kerilli]

Wow, what a thread, and very brave of you, OP.
Brigadoon has said most of what I am sitting here thinking, but I'll add:
When I see a picture like the guy on the grey... I despair. We see the same sort of pics of (sometimes obese) tourists going down the Grand Canyon on very small mules, and of donkeys, mules, ponies, horses being used as beasts of burden all over the world. They look horribly overburdened and it makes me really sad but I know that that is just how it is for a lot of animals. If I was there and saw that guy I would go over and tell him that he's far too heavy for that horse, yes. For any horse actually. 100% I would. He could do with the exercise of walking, to put it bluntly.
OP, as for the pictures of you... would I say anything to you? No, not unless you asked me face-to-face for my opinion... which is I guess what you have done with this post?
If I owned those horses and you turned up for a ride I would apologise, and say that you are too heavy at present. I would say that you can fuss them, groom them, take them for walks, do ground work with them, spend as long as you like with them, but not ride them.
And I would advise you to go on a strict very-low-carb and low-fat, no fizzy drinks, loads of water, loads of protein and green veggies, diet, and do a lot of walking if you could. It works. It's not rocket science. It's not easy, especially with the temptations freaking EVERYWHERE the moment you go out, but it works. You could expect at least 2lb weight loss per week, reliably. And the euphoria that comes with that... wow.
I think the current PC-ness about obesity is absolutely crippling. It fosters the delusion. If obese people are just going to sit on the sofa and ride Harleys, fine, their business. But when it leads to horses suffering, horses that don't live in the third world where they are overburdened because their owners are trying to eek out another few pennies to survive on, but horses owned by well-meaning people who profess to care about them but are sometimes ill-advised by those around them, sometimes with a vested interest, sometimes just too busy trying to be 'nice' and not hurt anyone's feelings... well, I think I've made my feelings clear.
I think you'd be a much better rider (balance, effectiveness of leg muscles, core stability, and so on), and a much easier passenger for your horse, if you lost a significant amount of weight.

 

[Wagtail]

That man is just cruel beyond belief! I would be telling him that in no uncertain terms. I have had to tell people on two occasions that they are too big for their horses. It is hard, especially when they are really lovely people and you don't want to hurt their feelings. One was a 20 stone plus woman who came to try out my 17.3 ID gelding, the other is (still) one of my liveries. However, said livery ignored my advice that she needed a bigger horse or lose a few stone. I have told her once a few years ago. Won't tell her again as it's her pony and up to her. But he is suffering some major back issues now. I felt it was my duty to tell her, even though it was really hard. What she does with the information is up to her.

OP, I have told you before that I think you are too heavy for your boy due to his conformational faults that I outlined in a previous thread, but you ignored. As for your mare, what were you thinking? She is a beautiful fine boned animal...

 

[Honey08]

I am strugggling with the point you are making - are you being 'fattest' or 'thinnest'? Are you saying becuase I have got fatter.... I should be giving up the horses.....perhaps? Of course fat riders, as well as thin ones are bad riders.....but those who were once good riders, cannot be good, because they have got fatter? Blimey, might have to end it all tomorrow !!!

I am a rider who had put on 3 stone over the last few years due to injury and basically laziness. I'm riding the same horse. I'm an ok rider (Im an AI), but I do feel that I don't ride as well as I did before - there is more of me that wobbles, and I am convinced that my centre of gravity has changed a bit (boobs are a lot bigger..) so I am not as balanced as I was 3 stone ago. My mare does fine, she is a big ISH, but I will not jump or get back to eventing until I get fit and lose weight. Hopefully that process is on the way.

Of course there are bad fat riders and bad thin riders. But a bad fat rider is worse, and a good fit rider is better for the horse than a good fat rider. Sad fact for those of us overweight to take, but true.

 

[Cortez]

It is exponentially harder to ride well if you are overweight; your balance is off, your flexibility is off, your thighs will be round rather than flat against the saddle, your centre of gravity will be wrong and if you fall off you will hit the ground harder and hurt yourself more than if you are lighter (this is why kids "bounce" more than adults). I have never been very obese, but I weigh more now at 53 than I did at 23, and I certainly don't bounce anymore!

 

[BeesKnees]

I agree that weight has become a very taboo subject, and no wonder when our weight is so wrapped up in our emotions and our feelings about ourselves, our lives and our self-worth.

I've just come back from a holiday in Mexico. The resort was full of Americans, and what was interesting was the two extreme body types on show with very few in the middle. On the one hand there were the gym bunny 'hard bodies' with some of the scariest abdominals I've ever seen on women (and I'm a Pilates teacher so I have abs!).

On the other hand were some of the fattest people I've ever seen (and interestingly here I was going to put 'large' as It feels uncomfortable to write 'fat'. But that is what it was).

We got talking with an American couple (not overweight), who talked about how hard it is to get healthy and fresh food and how everything comes in a super sized portion. They were amazed that we can get organic food in supermarkets in the UK!

From that, the US ads on tv, and the food available in resort and outside, it became very evident that so much of the food available in the States is processed crap. Even the bread is sweet and clearly has sugar in it. As did the natural yogurt (why???)

For the first time I understood how hard it must be to eat well in the States, and how easy to give in to the junk. Massive portion sizes are considered normal.

OP I wish you really well with your weight loss. You clearly love your horses and want to do something positive for them and for you. I hope you have support in place as no doubt it will be hard at times, but so worth it.

 

[alainax]

Just a tiny point on the balanced heavy riders/unbalance lighter riders...


I ride light, im overweight... but it doenst make me any less of my actuall weight on the horses back. Im still exactly what I weigh... Just gentler on the horses back than a beginner bouncing around.

A beginner of my same weight would be more of a burden to the horse imo.
(hence why riding schools set lower limits very often, ofc work load too)

However.. it couldnt possibly be said that I feel less than my weight to the horse, im just gentler for him.


sooo..... imo... any rider... heavy or light... can either feel thier weight, or feel heavier. You cant possibly feel lighter.


I guess the problem comes with the phrase " riding light" I guess your not really riding light... its more that others ride heavy...


Does that make sense?

 

[Honey08]

I go to the states a lot, and while there is a lot of junk food, it is really easy to eat healthily too. I go to their supermarkets and there is loads of gorgeous fruit and vet, lean meat, fat free products.. Its just easier to eat junk.

 

[joeanne]

It isn't that easy either, I say Ben is suitable for me, but others argue he isn't, so whose suitable to we go with?

Sorry but you are kidding yourself if you think you are ok to ride that pony at that weight.
An odd half a stone might not be an issue if you rode well and were balanced, but at that weight, your riding ability will make no odds.....ultimately you are damaging your horses long term health by subjecting him to carrying that amount of weight.
His back and joints are being subjected to weights far greater than he is supposed to be carrying.
None of those pictures look "ok" to me.

 

[Serephin]

You could say something to the person, whether they listened or not, is another matter.

The fact that the huge bloke is riding that horse in the first place suggests to me that the people around him didn't say anything, or if they did, were ignored. For someone to get to that size in the first place they have already found many ways to justify their size and why they have a right to be fat and do what they want no matter what.

I once knew a woman who was having problems mounting her horse - it would buck her off and refuse to stand by the mounting block. She asked me to help her on one time and the way she dragged her lard arse into that saddle left me open mouthed. I said to her 'do you think maybe the way you are getting on might be hurting her back?' and she bit my head off and said No! She also had a trainer who told her that she would benefit from seeing a back person as she was sitting crooked on the horse and affecting the horse's way of going. So she dumped the trainer.

Some people just don't want to hear it. They are so defensive about themselves that it falls on deaf ears.

 

[BeesKnees]

I go to the states a lot, and while there is a lot of junk food, it is really easy to eat healthily too. I go to their supermarkets and there is loads of gorgeous fruit and vet, lean meat, fat free products.. Its just easier to eat junk.

They sell gorgeous vets?

OK maybe I'm just being too kind

I think education around nutrition must come into it obviously. If you don't know what a balanced diet is, or what a reasonable portion is, then you make poor choices, get used to the taste of sugar, salt and fat, and then the healthy stuff just doesn't seem appealing.

And cost of course. Just as here in the UK, it can be cheaper to buy frozen processed crap than fresh food.

I'm not making excuses for people. My husband and I make an effort to eat well, as he has a massive genetic tendency to blood pressure, diabetes and heart disease. We choose to deny ourselves high GI carbs and sugar most of the time and keep weight down. He could say, oh it's my genes, go into denail and not bother (as many of his family do) , but instead has chosen to fight it.

 

[Tinseltoes]

I go to the states a lot, and while there is a lot of junk food, it is really easy to eat healthily too. I go to their supermarkets and there is loads of gorgeous fruit and vet, lean meat, fat free products.. Its just easier to eat junk.

Being married to a american I lived in the USA for 8 years and gained weight,but now back in the UK the weight is coming off.Yes there is a lot of choices of food in the stores in USA and there is also a lot of junk food temptations too. (ho ho,twinkies ) yum!!!! as well as fast food resturants everywhere.
I feel sorry for that poor grey horse.That man is way to heavy for that horse

 

[kerilli]

They sell gorgeous vets?

OK maybe I'm just being too kind

I think education around nutrition must come into it obviously. If you don't know what a balanced diet is, or what a reasonable portion is, then you make poor choices, get used to the taste of sugar, salt and fat, and then the healthy stuff just doesn't seem appealing.

And cost of course. Just as here in the UK, it can be cheaper to buy frozen processed crap than fresh food.

I'm not making excuses for people. My husband and I make an effort to eat well, as he has a massive genetic tendency to blood pressure, diabetes and heart disease. We choose to deny ourselves high GI carbs and sugar most of the time and keep weight down. He could say, oh it's my genes, go into denail and not bother (as many of his family do) , but instead has chosen to fight it.

This. It is an effort. Fattening food is EVERYWHERE. You can't get a 'quick snack' that's healthy. Queuing up in River Island (FGS) there are sweets right by the till. There should be a law against that!
America has extra problems because there is corn syrup in just about everything (which the Powers That Be staunchly defend, to protect the corn growers, apparently) and because a normal portion there is HUGE. I have a big appetite and was shocked. I'm talking lasagne, in 1 restaurant, 1 serving was honestly enough to feed 6-8 adults, with no exaggeration at all... and if you grow up with huge portions, and sugar in everything...
They have sugar in their bread. It's shocking. Sugar makes you fat. Simples, as the wise meerkat says.
It's getting worse here... it is a struggle. I love going into Costa coffee but all I can have is 1 or 2 large Costa Light lattes. There is NOTHING in there that I can eat and stick to my aim to avoid sugar, wheat, fat. I fill up on lattes... but it's not easy!
America is far worse, I love the place but it is so easy to put on weight there. You'd have to make a concerted effort, every single day, to seek out natural foods and avoid 'dead calories'.
Btw, did you know that we are the first generation who are, in many cases, obese at the same time as being malnourished? All that food and hardly any vitamins and minerals. Unreal.

 

[Honey08]

They sell gorgeous vets?


.

Hee hee - would have brought one back years ago if they did!!

I have to say that when I'm dieting I don't struggle in the US. India is my most difficult country!

Different parts of the US seem to have different attitudes to diet - in LA it is easy to do fitness and healthy eating.. Generally though, although they have the most fast food and largest portions I've ever seen, I think it is easy to eat healthily. I think the UK is not that far behind them when it comes to junk and processed food.

A lot of restaurants over there have calorie contents - even their salads are huge and full of calories in things like Cheesecake Factory. But they do do diet versions now.

If you have to work at being thin and fit, its hard most places. I always think I would be naturally thinner if I lived in South Africa - the food there is wonderful, lots of meat and wonderful veg (just have to avoid the yummy wine too!).

 

[Littlelegs]

The view that the horse doesn't show discomfort doesn't wash for me either. Horses put up with a lot. A few years ago my friend & I were messing about with her tiny mini. I was demonstrating my ability to stand over it with my feet on the floor, as in with a half inch gap between myself & its back. We decided it would be amusing if I stood on one leg, holding the leg closest to the camera up in an impression of riding, of course still with a gap between myself & its back. Pony chose this moment to dart off in canter, knocked my leg I was stood on, resulting in me being on its back briefly. Within a few strides I had gathered my wits back & hopped off. But certainly in those few strides pony looks rather happy & not remotely like he's struggling. Does that justify me getting on intentionally? Not at all. I'm over double the weight most people would recommend for a mini. And before anyone asks, we deleted the evidence. And I'm sure most of us have stories of horses in pain through injury, illness, ill fitting or misused tack etc that have carried on without expressing it. So the fact a horse doesn't show signs of discomfort isn't any use, by the time it does its way beyond mild pain ime.