Heavy riders, who should speak out and when*spin off*

[Wagtail]

Hey Waytail/Flame,

Good advice, I wont get back on him now, like i say I fell off the wagon big style, I have turned him away, I took all of his measurements before I turned him away (weight/bone/height/girth/length) and I can see he is going through a pretty good growth spurt, he has gone bum high, im 5ft 4 and I wont even get back on the scales now but Im going to get it back off again, I know I can do it again, I did it once for him and I will do it again.

Then next year I will re-do his stats and do the maths.

I cant even look at a picture of myself on him, there is no point doing this until I can get back to where I was, let him grow on and mature etc. I will see what a bit more growth and maturity bring.

I could ride him fat, and even though I am not skinny when I have lost weight I still feel its unfair to make him carry more than he is able because its selfish and wrong, which is why I lost weight.

There was uproar among friends and family when this happened as everyone thought I worked so hard and did great and looked great and looked good on him but like I say doesnt matter what you weigh there is always some bu**er who thinks you are fat! LOL I didnt buy the saddle at the time as I didnt see the point but it was 1 16.5" saddle, correct me if I am wrong but this isnt an overly large saddle is it??

No it isn't! It would be too small for me and I'm slim. I currently weigh ten stone and when 9.5 stone used to regularly ride a 13.3 hh welsh section D. She coped no problem.

 

[Achinghips]

Hey Waytail/Flame,

Good advice, I wont get back on him now, like i say I fell off the wagon big style, I have turned him away, I took all of his measurements before I turned him away (weight/bone/height/girth/length) and I can see he is going through a pretty good growth spurt, he has gone bum high, im 5ft 4 and I wont even get back on the scales now but Im going to get it back off again, I know I can do it again, I did it once for him and I will do it again.

Then next year I will re-do his stats and do the maths.

I cant even look at a picture of myself on him, there is no point doing this until I can get back to where I was, let him grow on and mature etc. I will see what a bit more growth and maturity bring.

I could ride him fat, and even though I am not skinny when I have lost weight I still feel its unfair to make him carry more than he is able because its selfish and wrong, which is why I lost weight.

There was uproar among friends and family when this happened as everyone thought I worked so hard and did great and looked great and looked good on him but like I say doesnt matter what you weigh there is always some bu**er who thinks you are fat! LOL I didnt buy the saddle at the time as I didnt see the point but it was 1 16.5" saddle, correct me if I am wrong but this isnt an overly large saddle is it??

Is this for real???

 

[FfionWinnie]

Is this for real???

Which bit?

Did you read the first post about the saddler telling her she was too heavy for the horse?

 

[Coldfeet!]

Hmm thats what I though,

I tried a 17" and a 16.5" the saddler said there was nothing in it eally and the smaller one felt a bit more comfy, I suppose I can use another saddler when the time comes.

hard not to take these things to heart when you feel on top of the world for getting it done and someone shoots you down in flames! LOL

Thanks for the boost!

Im back on the wagon!

 

[AmyMay]

Fit to ride. End of.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Hmm thats what I though,

I tried a 17" and a 16.5" the saddler said there was nothing in it eally and the smaller one felt a bit more comfy, I suppose I can use another saddler when the time comes.

hard not to take these things to heart when you feel on top of the world for getting it done and someone shoots you down in flames! LOL

Thanks for the boost!

Im back on the wagon!

You suppose?? I wouldn't want to give that person a penny if they were incorrect when you had worked out the percentages. Were you within 20%??

 

[Coldfeet!]

Achinghips it's so real my self esteem is in the dirt.

I WISH it wasn't.

 

[Coldfeet!]

20%

Im not sure y'know!

I was 151 lbs he is 745 but i dont know the weight of the tack which was synthetic and in that cold harsh reality I am probably borderline, not sure of the sum (maths isnt my strong point).

I will just have to wait and see he is a fab pony and I love him to bits, he is still growing so maybe we can still have a chance of being compatible.

I think the point of my post was if people speak out about weight then it does shock the weight carrier into reality. Its hurts like hell but we have to acknowledge our fatness and if we love our horses we must work to put it right.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Coldfeet the thing is you said you looked gaunt at that weight so you were not fat. You may have been too heavy for that pony, but that wasn't because you were fat.

I think you are right to see how he develops, I can't remember how old you said he was then or what condition he was in.

I think you are right about people watching what and how they say things.

 

[Littlelegs]

Coldfeet- its hard to really know without seeing the horse, I've met some immature scrawny Welsh ds who weren't up to much, & brick outhouse types too. At an average guess though, the majority are up to 11stone though.
Definitely try a new saddler though. Years ago my novice friend was getting a saddle fitted to her tank of a sec d. Saddler had been given a template & been told she wanted a good quality second hand leather one. Only one the saddler had that actually fitted was a 15.5", which was too small for my 5'6 10 stone friend. Saddler was telling her it was perfect for her, I stepped in & said it wasn't. At which point saddler began hinting about weight loss to fit the saddle, pony couldn't take much bigger etc. Funnily enough when she first arrived she was trying to sell her a 17" that did indeed fit beautifully, but was also a brand new albion & way over budget.

 

[Coldfeet!]

FfionWinnie,

Do you know, Ive never thought of it that way! makes more sense, all I could see throught the red mist was that I was too fat to ride a Welsh Cob! Its also not only about what people say but how you take it I suppose!

He is 4, bum high and in good condition. He was very poor when I got him and its taken him a year to recover from that and being gelded which knocked him sideways so I feel he is still catching up with himself. 14.1hh bum is at 14.2hh just over so hopefully he will top out there and even higher. over 8" of bone and 745lbs

All I can do is wait and see and work on myself in the mean time.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Oh if he is a welsh D check out the welsh D transformation thread in the pictures section to cheer you up

 

[Christsam]

At the end of the day I dont know why people are still going on about this. If you have to seriously question whether you are too big and have done the maths and are at the top end of the max weight or over then you need to stop riding that horse. Big_Ben said she is 23 or 24% of max weight then posted the research notes that say that marked physical changes become apparent at 25%. so why are you still riding this horse? Its not even about being fat or overweight. Im small but there are still ponies I would be to heavy to ride so I wouldnt. Simple as.

 

[Coldfeet!]

Littlelegs, really thats facinating!

And shocking!

Thank you x

 

[Littlelegs]

Don't panic too much, I imagine by the time you are back at your previous weight & he's mature you will be fine. I once backed & schooled a just 4 sec d, with my stirrups far shorter than I like as I was really too leggy for it. I then had a quick sit when it was 5, the difference was huge. Previously bareback my feet had been halfway between elbow & knee. Now, they are only just near elbow. And its not grown an inch in height or carrying more fat. It's just bulked out massively.

 

[Big Ben]

Horses break down all the time. Because they were backed too soon, because they do too much schooling, because they don't do enough schooling and learn to use themselves properly, because we feed them imperfect diets, because they are hell bent on breaking their own necks, because we hack them on the roads, etc, etc....

The OP has a point, her horse has a job to do and at the moment its doing it, not unhappily if she's correct. Who's business is it in RL to tell her or anyone else what they should and shouldn't be doing with their horse?

Ahh, so this is what it feels like on the other side of the debate, I did wonder, I guess you are all feeling the same outrage that I do when people proudly show their 2 year old who is already jumping and doing a day on the trails.

Big_Ben said she is 23 or 24% of max weight then posted the research notes that say that marked physical changes become apparent at 25%

Again, the study was done riding for longer and trotting and cantering, none of which Ben is asked to do under saddle. What changes would be seen if carrying 15% around a cross country course, or 10% out hunting all day.

It makes you cringe to see me sit on Ben and walk him, it makes me cringe to see a horse cantered on hard top road, even with a small person on.

FfionWinnie,

Do you know, Ive never thought of it that way! makes more sense, all I could see throught the red mist was that I was too fat to ride a Welsh Cob! Its also not only about what people say but how you take it I suppose!

He is 4, bum high and in good condition. He was very poor when I got him and its taken him a year to recover from that and being gelded which knocked him sideways so I feel he is still catching up with himself. 14.1hh bum is at 14.2hh just over so hopefully he will top out there and even higher. over 8" of bone and 745lbs

All I can do is wait and see and work on myself in the mean time.

I bet you will be surprised come spring, he may well blossom into a real chunk next year.

 

[Clava]

It makes you cringe to see me sit on Ben and walk him, it makes me cringe to see a horse cantered on hard top road, even with a small person on.


.

I'm not sure I understand the comparison? Most people don't intentionally canter their horses on hard top roads.

 

[FfionWinnie]

FfionWinnie,

Do you know, Ive never thought of it that way! makes more sense, all I could see throught the red mist was that I was too fat to ride a Welsh Cob! Its also not only about what people say but how you take it I suppose!

He is 4, bum high and in good condition. He was very poor when I got him and its taken him a year to recover from that and being gelded which knocked him sideways so I feel he is still catching up with himself. 14.1hh bum is at 14.2hh just over so hopefully he will top out there and even higher. over 8" of bone and 745lbs

All I can do is wait and see and work on myself in the mean time.

I have body image problems too , I would have taken it exactly the way you did. Did you check out this thread

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=569120

I think you will be grand once he has matured.

 

[Big Ben]

I'm not sure I understand the comparison? Most people don't intentionally canter their horses on hard top roads.

Unless out hunting, maybe the world has changed in the new fluffy era, but used to see it done a lot in the 'good old days'

 

[Christsam]

It makes you cringe to see me sit on Ben and walk him, it makes me cringe to see a horse cantered on hard top road, even with a small person on.

At no point did i say it makes me cringe. if ANY PERSON is that much over the max weight they should think seriously about not riding. Actually it makes me cringe as well to see a horse cantering on a hard top road so I am not quite sure why you are using this comparison. And No, i do not do it as it is not good for the horse, no matter what my weight comparison is to the horses weight.

 

[Clava]

Unless out hunting, maybe the world has changed in the new fluffy era, but used to see it done a lot in the 'good old days'

Surely anything that damages a horse is not a good thing and to be discouraged, disapproving of one and not the other seems oddly selective unless of course, you do not believe that one is damaging.

 

[Achinghips]

Coldfeet, my question was in reference to your estimation that 16.5 saddle was big. I'm riding in 18" and I'm 12 stone at 5' 2", I have long thighs though but am very short knee to ankle, so I am now waiting for my made to measure to arrive, whicvh has 17" flaps. I'm also extremely muscular and fit (well, as fit as you can be and still smoke - oops!), so look smaller. My lad is a gigantic half shire so he can quite happily cope - I was on the very edge with my Tb at that weight, esp as she had arthritis, so it was time for a change.

Welsh D's are beautiful horses, I used to have one myself - he was lovely and strong as an ox! Generally speaking they can carry a large-ish weight, so don't worry. Like others have said, he'll be a big chunk of a lad! and you WILL be fine, half the battle is your awareness of your weight, you have this and you will make any necessary plans. I am sure you are fine

 

[Christsam]

Also, Big Ben what do you do under saddle with him then? You say the research was trotting and cantering, none of which he does under saddle, but yet you do video dressage. So presumably you at least trot in this and have to practice?

 

[Christsam]

Surely anything that damages a horse is not a good thing and to be discouraged, disapproving of one and not the other seems oddly selective unless of course, you do not believe that one is damaging.

Totally agree clava.

 

[kerilli]

Surely anything that damages a horse is not a good thing and to be discouraged, disapproving of one and not the other seems oddly selective unless of course, you do not believe that one is damaging.

Yes, precisely. I cringe watching horses in films, galloping flat out on roads or on tracks baked hard in the sun, just for the cameras... I wonder how long those horses lasted. I think most of us are unhappy about anything we see which is detrimental to the horses's welfare.

 

[Wagtail]

Also, Big Ben what do you do under saddle with him then? You say the research was trotting and cantering, none of which he does under saddle, but yet you do video dressage. So presumably you at least trot in this and have to practice?

You beat me to it! I was just going to try to find where she said that. I think there is a bit of back peddling going on...

 

[Spring Feather]

Cruelty to animals comes in many guises. When cruelty is involved I always speak out. If I were to meet the man on the Arab in real life I would have no qualms about saying to him that he is greatly exceeding the weight limit for that horse and if he did not refrain from riding the horse then I would call Animal Control without a second thought. To the OP, I know you are in the early stages of dieting, I'm sure your horses will be much relieved. I really do have to question the motives of your instructor though. You say she will be paid whether you ride the horses or not; regardless, the trainer is no trainer I would ever employ at my stables. She has quite clearly demonstrated her complete ignorance by suggesting you are okay riding your other fine-boned horse.

 

[Big Ben]

Also, Big Ben what do you do under saddle with him then? You say the research was trotting and cantering, none of which he does under saddle, but yet you do video dressage. So presumably you at least trot in this and have to practice?

I said, more than once I believe, that I was aiming to do dressage with him in the spring, currently we have practised enter at A, walk down centre line halt at X..........the rest of it we will be doing on long reins from the ground, no trotting from me until we are both fitter, the repercussions are to horrific, I've seen the knockersaplenty in action at a lighter weight, I don't think there is a bra on teh market that could keep their current voluptuousness from having earthquake like affects for several minutes

 

[rodeo12]

Agree to disagree? It's all the same comments but just moving from different people who are catching up on the thread! A bit boring now . . . yes some of you think it's cruel but it's also clearly been stated things aren't going to change. Time to move on and find something else to do with your time? Those who think it's cruel, as soon as this topics stopped being bought up - you can go back to the saying ignorance is bliss and Bigben can carry on enjoying the horses whether it's on the ground or on top for a short ride. EVERYONES HAPPY - as much as you write comments on here it's really not changing the world so speaking your opinion isn't going to do much!

 

[Littlelegs]

Couldn't the same be said of every single thread & topic on here though rodeo 12? If you find it boring don't read it, just move on & find something different to do with your time. Everyone's happy, oh yeah, except the horses carrying too much which was the reason most of us are commenting.