rhino
Well-Known Member
It's a public forum, the whole point of it is that people can discuss things
Didn't realise there was a new ruling that all threads had to be of life changing importance...
Heavy riders, who should speak out and when*spin off*
- Thread starter Big Ben
- Start date
It's a public forum, the whole point of it is that people can discuss things
Didn't realise there was a new ruling that all threads had to be of life changing importance...
Wagtail
Horse servant
On the contrary. I have changed few views regarding horses from taking part in discussions on this forum. A few others have too. Also, threads like this have spurred people on to losing weight. That can only be a good thing. If you are bored don't read it.
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
I have definitely changed my view of various topics in here. There have been times when I've argued my point, I've taken on board what other people have said and later changed it!
I haven't been spurred on to lose weight here, but I have addressed Mollie's weight issues as a result of the forum.
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
Actually big Ben, in your op you say you compete in dressage competitions, & have only ever had one comment. Now you say you are aiming to do so in spring, currently in practice. Which is it?
Flame_
Well-Known Member
LOL, wait 'til the clocks change next week, threads can get dragged out and go round and round in circles for a lot longer than this. If you're bored, do something else! I'm not going to shut up just because you'd like me to.
FfionWinnie
Well-Known Member
LOL, wait 'til the clocks change next week, threads can get dragged out and go round and round in circles for a lot longer than this. If you're bored, do something else! I'm not going to shut up just because you'd like me to.
Yeah I've been banging on since the start and I shall continue as long as it interests me
horseandshoes77
Well-Known Member
well my 15.2 tb x carries 13 stone at min, altho rider is losing weight however i would not allow her to jump until shes under 12 stone altho mare is perfectly capable... shes only 4 will be 5 in june but shes quite short coupled and def not weak in the back..i use to worry about her carrying 10 stone but altho her new rider is heavier shes very balanced and rides well...mare seems happy enough and we have a well fitting saddle, however a girl neaday r us was around 15 stone riding a fine tb who used to have to give the horse a few days off after shed ridden her as she was sore.... she took her jumping oneday and horse was crippled with back pain for 3 days after .. rider had no idea why so i guess its just common sense !
so i guess its just common sense !Christsam
Well-Known Member
Sorry big ben but in you opening post you say
I compete in video dressage competitions, and have only ever had one remark, and that was for my last test, when i had gained a lot of weight and lost condition, due to knee surgery back in the summer, and that was Cesar Parra saying "remember you need to be fit to ride dressage" totally valid point.
So, is your original post wrong?
I compete in video dressage competitions, and have only ever had one remark, and that was for my last test, when i had gained a lot of weight and lost condition, due to knee surgery back in the summer, and that was Cesar Parra saying "remember you need to be fit to ride dressage" totally valid point.
So, is your original post wrong?
Big Ben
Well-Known Member
OK I can see where the confusion comes in, let me see if I can make it clearer
This is in the past couple of years, where I competed on my last boy through a range of weights as I went up and down, the Parra comment came on my July test, last one before giving up and going for surgery, so heavy, but have put on some more
Yes I did say that I would compete him, but the reality is he isn't ready, and nor am I, so I apologize for not being clear........it does say I would, but I haven't.
You may take this thread as evidence that I am usually honest, somewhat confused at times, possibly delusional, whatever else you want to label me as, but I really do not set out to lie, so there is no need for me to change tack.
Christsam
Well-Known Member
Confusion cleared
Trinity Fox
Well-Known Member
The fact this thread has gained so may comments just shows there is a real response to the topic, I have commented earlier in this and stated rider far too heavy for horses being ridden.
The only facts we have seem to lean towards not loading horses with more than 20 % of their fit bodyweight, all the dross about what horses used to carry or even more funny were bred to carry, horses were not born to carry any weight, we decided to take on their good nature to carry us.
The little research suggests 20% is a good guide, the rest is based on what they have done in the past, we used to send children up chimneys we do not do that now, we also used to sling working horses up so they could carry on working and they used to develop chronic conditions, in old literature they would describe breaking of the side bone , side bone is a ossification in the foot in those days from over loading and stress.Horse were worked with any condition because the people were so poor they had no choice.
We have moved on a long way since then and horses as we well know are loving feeling creatures , if you want to ride your horse and you are too fat, the easy option is to loose weight this is not going to hurt you it is going to make you more healthy, be better for you for your family and your horse.
The only reason I can see for this kind of posting and while you are very personable and funny, is to get people to tell you it is ok to subject your horses to your weight, it is not it will never be, and if you truly wan't to ride and really care for your horse in the correct way it will never be, I wish I could tell you otherwise but if I am going to really be honest, then I cannot do that.
Horses being the size they are and having the power they do are such forgiving creatures, I do not think we should expect them to put up with our failings.
The only facts we have seem to lean towards not loading horses with more than 20 % of their fit bodyweight, all the dross about what horses used to carry or even more funny were bred to carry, horses were not born to carry any weight, we decided to take on their good nature to carry us.
The little research suggests 20% is a good guide, the rest is based on what they have done in the past, we used to send children up chimneys we do not do that now, we also used to sling working horses up so they could carry on working and they used to develop chronic conditions, in old literature they would describe breaking of the side bone , side bone is a ossification in the foot in those days from over loading and stress.Horse were worked with any condition because the people were so poor they had no choice.
We have moved on a long way since then and horses as we well know are loving feeling creatures , if you want to ride your horse and you are too fat, the easy option is to loose weight this is not going to hurt you it is going to make you more healthy, be better for you for your family and your horse.
The only reason I can see for this kind of posting and while you are very personable and funny, is to get people to tell you it is ok to subject your horses to your weight, it is not it will never be, and if you truly wan't to ride and really care for your horse in the correct way it will never be, I wish I could tell you otherwise but if I am going to really be honest, then I cannot do that.
Horses being the size they are and having the power they do are such forgiving creatures, I do not think we should expect them to put up with our failings.
Big Ben
Well-Known Member
Trinity, the responses, and the incredible number of viewings that the thread has does show the interest in the subject.
The 20% guideline has been around since the days of the Calvary, when 20% was worked out to be a maximum load for horses working all day every day, presumably at mainly walk and trot on the flat.
I wonder what the maximum load would be for a horse jumping, eventing, hunting etc, where the shock loading on the joints is increased with every effort?
Yes the horse was abused in the old days by people struggling to live and not being able to do any better by them. Horses are now abused in all sorts of different ways, talk to the barefoot people, they think people nailing shoes on are the devil, I was taking part in a debate on Facebook the other day and there was someone calling bits 'Instruments of Torture' refused totally to use the word bit. I hate the thought of horses standing in stables 23 hours a day, just going out for exercise once a day, but it happens. No I'm not saying that lots of wrongs make a right, but just that different people have different views on what is right and wrong, and where the lines should be drawn.
And again, NO this isn't about getting people to say it is OK to ride my horses, I know it is not OK to ride 2 of them, same way that I know it isn't OK to put my Arab in foal while I lose the weight Yes it was suggested by someone, and they couldn't see anything wrong with me breeding her just so she wouldn't be standing doing nothing for a year, best reason yet I've heard to have a foal *shakes head* I know I'm never going to get anyone here converted, and that's OK, I will carry on as I am, and from Monday every day will get a little closer to ideal, and when I lose that whole 20 pounds that will make me 20% of his weight, I will get on and gallop him everywhere because that will be OK then? No of course I wont, but HEY I'll be at 20% so this argument will become null and void, and he will have had to tote 20 pounds extra around for a few hours out of his whole life, and yes I truly believe that will not cause him long term damage.
Yes I do also know that the 20 pounds is only the start of being 'acceptable' but it will be a start, a start of more serious work for both of us, and every week after that will be an improvement.
The 20% guideline has been around since the days of the Calvary, when 20% was worked out to be a maximum load for horses working all day every day, presumably at mainly walk and trot on the flat.
I wonder what the maximum load would be for a horse jumping, eventing, hunting etc, where the shock loading on the joints is increased with every effort?
Yes the horse was abused in the old days by people struggling to live and not being able to do any better by them. Horses are now abused in all sorts of different ways, talk to the barefoot people, they think people nailing shoes on are the devil, I was taking part in a debate on Facebook the other day and there was someone calling bits 'Instruments of Torture' refused totally to use the word bit. I hate the thought of horses standing in stables 23 hours a day, just going out for exercise once a day, but it happens. No I'm not saying that lots of wrongs make a right, but just that different people have different views on what is right and wrong, and where the lines should be drawn.
And again, NO this isn't about getting people to say it is OK to ride my horses, I know it is not OK to ride 2 of them, same way that I know it isn't OK to put my Arab in foal while I lose the weight
Yes it was suggested by someone, and they couldn't see anything wrong with me breeding her just so she wouldn't be standing doing nothing for a year, best reason yet I've heard to have a foal *shakes head* I know I'm never going to get anyone here converted, and that's OK, I will carry on as I am, and from Monday every day will get a little closer to ideal, and when I lose that whole 20 pounds that will make me 20% of his weight, I will get on and gallop him everywhere because that will be OK then? No of course I wont, but HEY I'll be at 20% so this argument will become null and void, and he will have had to tote 20 pounds extra around for a few hours out of his whole life, and yes I truly believe that will not cause him long term damage.Yes I do also know that the 20 pounds is only the start of being 'acceptable' but it will be a start, a start of more serious work for both of us, and every week after that will be an improvement.
Trinity Fox
Well-Known Member
Yes you are right about the 20% starting from the cavalry days but what you have not mentioned, is in fact the recent research that was such a surprise when horses carrying above this weight showed distress muscle fatigue, they also displayed increased heart rate, lactic acid in their muscles and general distress. Also long term problems , researchers were surprised this weight was so easily and early detected.
I do believe this was mentioned to some degree earlier in this thread, the fact somebody gave you some bizarre advice concerning putting a mare in foal does not distract from riding a horse you are far too heavy for.
I have as stated earlier in this thread no problem with anyone being as heavy as they wish or living any lifestyle they wish, as stated before it becomes a problem when you decide to inflict this on a horse who has no choice in your lifestyle or your weight.
I do believe this was mentioned to some degree earlier in this thread, the fact somebody gave you some bizarre advice concerning putting a mare in foal does not distract from riding a horse you are far too heavy for.
I have as stated earlier in this thread no problem with anyone being as heavy as they wish or living any lifestyle they wish, as stated before it becomes a problem when you decide to inflict this on a horse who has no choice in your lifestyle or your weight.
Trinity Fox
Well-Known Member
Being a senile old coot I forgot to say the fact you try to justify the 20% rule by trying to rubbish when it was established , although it has since been proved to fairly accurate does sadly tell me you want us to agree with what you are doing.
As said before live as you wish but you are too heavy for your horses, if you really care for them do as I do diet and restrict yourself I am no Kate Moss but refuse to expect my lovely horses to have to put up with me carrying too much weight.
As said before live as you wish but you are too heavy for your horses, if you really care for them do as I do diet and restrict yourself I am no Kate Moss but refuse to expect my lovely horses to have to put up with me carrying too much weight.
Big Ben
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry being cootish myself I can't see which way you are arguing, How do I justify the rule by rubbishing it??
The research was done back in the day, the new research has confirmed what the oldies said, so I am not rubbishing anything about it, I agree 20% for a working horse is good, I have stated my intention to get under the 20% before I ask much of him. You should all be happy.
The only thing we are in fact arguing about is the very few hours of walking work that he is going to be doing carrying 23% rather than 20% or below.
At 20% I still will be working slow and steady, as we still both increase our fitness.
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
The way I see it... having missed 37 pages of debate is; 20% of the horse's weight at bog standard walk trot canter is NOT the same as 4* Xcountry, for example. Honestly people, get a bit of perspective!!!
That is all. Apologies from Malbec
That is all. Apologies from Malbec
Arabelle
Well-Known Member
The way I see it... having missed 37 pages of debate is; 20% of the horse's weight at bog standard walk trot canter is NOT the same as 4* Xcountry, for example. Honestly people, get a bit of perspective!!!
That is all. Apologies from Malbec
No, but a 4* cross country horse will be superbly fit and conditioned to get to that level, whereas a leisure horse could be very unfit and in poor condition.
Also, a 4* rider will be skilled and balanced, whereas a leisure rider could ride like a sack of spuds.
Big Ben, I really think you should focus on getting to 20% before you start riding. As has been stated, 20% is the maximum safe weight, not the ideal. At 20% you will still be at the top of the range for acceptable, which makes it entirely unacceptable to ask your horse to carry more.
As you plan to lose the weight, you should be able to ride at least one of your horses with a clearer conscience very soon.
Good luck
meesha
Well-Known Member
Just a thought, I have been following the thread with interested as I am no skinny but I am well below the 20% limit even with tack and was even before I lost weight. OP have you taken your tack into account within the 20% calculation ? and the fact that the horse is unfit ?
tbh you have made up your mind and are trying to justify your actions - we all do that with things. Take a look at someone you know is the same weight as you and ask yourself if you would be happy for them to sit on your horse, if the answer is yes then go for it!
you are very brave to post and sound like you are going to be trying soo hard to lose weight - but diets dont work ! are you going to diet for the rest of your life ? I have abandoned diets, I now eat slightly more healthily - its taken 3 months to get a stone off but its stayig off and hopefully more will come off and I dont feel like I am dieting - I still have a takeaway on a sat night and treats occasionally but "occasionally" is the key - I also eat "normal" evening meal with my oh. Quick weight loss is not the answer.
I wish you every luck as its a horrible position to be in, wanting all the weight to come off quickly but stay off - Good luck
tbh you have made up your mind and are trying to justify your actions - we all do that with things. Take a look at someone you know is the same weight as you and ask yourself if you would be happy for them to sit on your horse, if the answer is yes then go for it!
you are very brave to post and sound like you are going to be trying soo hard to lose weight - but diets dont work ! are you going to diet for the rest of your life ? I have abandoned diets, I now eat slightly more healthily - its taken 3 months to get a stone off but its stayig off and hopefully more will come off and I dont feel like I am dieting - I still have a takeaway on a sat night and treats occasionally but "occasionally" is the key - I also eat "normal" evening meal with my oh. Quick weight loss is not the answer.
I wish you every luck as its a horrible position to be in, wanting all the weight to come off quickly but stay off - Good luck
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
The key word being could
IMO if you're expecting your horse to gallop for 3-4 miles over 30 odd massive, solid fences, you owe it to your horse to be as fit and light as you can. Can think of at least 1 4* rider who is FAT- not just chubby or stocky, but fat. Fine if you want to pootle round the block, but NOT for the demands of eventing. But that's a whole different thread.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Well one would certainly hope so - but not always evidenced at some events.
Again you would hope so - but of course we know that is not always the case.
Big Ben
Well-Known Member
Yes to tack, and in the pic he was actually reasonably fit having just returned from 60 days at the trainer, being ridden up hill, (well valley, Saskatchewan is blessed with negative topography, no hills only valleys) and down dale, rounding up cows and generally having a great time!
If they could ride yes, there is a trainer not to far away who is around the same weight, I would let him ride Ben, but only in walk and only for a short time.
Am I going to diet for the rest of my life, hell yes! I'm 55 so much of my life has been wasted by various events, illness, injury, yo yo dieting, waiting until I'm the right weight to do this that or the other, and looking back I always was the right weight
I did try abandoning dieting, with predicted results, someone said earlier about banning wheat, sounds like a plan. I have 2 issues, losing the weight, and maintaining. Losing I am fantastic at, have lost large amounts 3 times in my life, now going for number 4, it is stage 2 maintaining that I suck at. The one factor that is constant, low carb diets are the ones that allow me to lose, they work, when others have failed. So the clue to maintaining is right there.
D-Day - 4 and counting, (although have already lost a few over the last few weeks)
meesha
Well-Known Member
well done you for the weight loss already - mine has levelled out so jogging will be introduced next week (someone yell at me if i dont do it !!) ! you know what works for you just keep it in moderation so you dont get fed up and fall off the wagon.
alainax
Well-Known Member
For maintenance ive heard of lots of people who have done really well on the few days on few days off kind of diet.
So you can effectively eat what you like for 5 days, but for two you must have super low calories. In effect balancing out if you over ate during the "off" days.
Possibly works due to the mindset - feels like your not on a diet, just eating **normally** ( ie not uber un healthy lol) and onlly have to do the "hard work" for two days.
I think when I get back down to target ill try that way, will let you know if it works
Ofc in the ideal world we would all eat exactly perfectly for our bodies needs, but for those who struggle with maintenance- this seems to work
So you can effectively eat what you like for 5 days, but for two you must have super low calories. In effect balancing out if you over ate during the "off" days.
Possibly works due to the mindset - feels like your not on a diet, just eating **normally** ( ie not uber un healthy lol) and onlly have to do the "hard work" for two days.
I think when I get back down to target ill try that way, will let you know if it works
Ofc in the ideal world we would all eat exactly perfectly for our bodies needs, but for those who struggle with maintenance- this seems to work
Big Ben
Well-Known Member
Alainax I have seen that diet, I believe one of the Universities in the UK actually trialled it with good results. I think it sounds like a great plan for maintenance, probably closer to our original ways of eating
Some more advice, which forum is the best place to start a personal journal type of thing, to get the support and give me some accountability to help me kick start this new me?
Some more advice, which forum is the best place to start a personal journal type of thing, to get the support and give me some accountability to help me kick start this new me?
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
This one! There's few other forums around that will straight up say "you're too bloody fat for that horse!"
There's someone doing a kind of weightloss journal thread in Soapbox. Maybe you can tag along
alainax
Well-Known Member
This one! There's few other forums around that will straight up say "you're too bloody fat for that horse!"
Its very true actually, Im on a weight plan forum and its very very sweet, and kinda fluffy. If your looking for a kick start.. this lot sure dont hold back!
Big Ben
Well-Known Member
This one! There's few other forums around that will straight up say "you're too bloody fat for that horse!"
Its very true actually, Im on a weight plan forum and its very very sweet, and kinda fluffy. If your looking for a kick start.. this lot sure dont hold back!
Sounds good, I have enough fluffy!
Vicstress
Well-Known Member
I was very cynical about that diet until OH explained the science to me (studying medicine) and it does look good
Big Ben
Well-Known Member
I was cynical as well, and I hate the idea of synthetic food, but I have to see it as fuel, in fact it is a dream come true, as I dish out the dog food, the cat food, and feed the horses, I've always wished I could just dish out human food the same way, well now I can
Vicstress
Well-Known Member
Why are you eating synthetic food? The diet im talking about is 600 calories twice a week then normal eating other days!