Helgstrand…

[daffy44]

I'm afraid that I dont think it matters who speaks out, it wont make any difference. I think the only thing that will really affect Helgstrand is hitting him in the wallet, until people stop using his stallions, and stop buying his sales horses, I very much doubt anything will change. He had a stallion show last night, and from the videos it looks packed out.

I find it utterly tragic, but sadly not surprising that he has weathered Operation X and his Olympic ban etc, because I suspect all he really cares about is making money, and if he's still selling, then he's still making money.

 

[Cortez]

I'm afraid that I dont think it matters who speaks out, it wont make any difference. I think the only thing that will really affect Helgstrand is hitting him in the wallet, until people stop using his stallions, and stop buying his sales horses, I very much doubt anything will change. He had a stallion show last night, and from the videos it looks packed out.

I find it utterly tragic, but sadly not surprising that he has weathered Operation X and his Olympic ban etc, because I suspect all he really cares about is making money, and if he's still selling, then he's still making money.

Nothing will change until the judges stop rewarding incorrect, ugly, cruel training in the ring. That's down to the FEI.

 

[tristars]

i think we ALL need to speak out

it will have effect when the pressure from all angles forces changes in the system

the format of tests
the judging
scrutinisation by the judges of video footage of all tests with a strict criterea including close up and slo mo of rider aids and horse responses
video of warmup areas

offering rewards for footage of any barbaric training methods, [its the only way]

 

[tristars]

So pleased Pammy Hutton has spoken out (again) silence is deafening from the rest. Vive la revolution in Paris

in all the years i lived in france never saw a rider being abusive at a competition, mainly top level jumping, some of the dressage was classic, mostly nice to watch, but they do have national centers of training france and in many countries, none in britain

some other aspects of the horse world were a bit dodgy

 

[Cortez]

i think we ALL need to speak out

it will have effect when the pressure from all angles forces changes in the system

the format of tests
the judging
scrutinisation by the judges of video footage of all tests with a strict criterea including close up and slo mo of rider aids and horse responses
video of warmup areas

offering rewards for footage of any barbaric training methods, [its the only way]

Who are you going to speak to? What is wrong with the format of tests, exactly? Training of judges at FEI level needs to be supervised .....by the FEI. Who is going to pay rewards for video footage?

 

[Cortez]

in all the years i lived in france never saw a rider being abusive at a competition, mainly top level jumping, some of the dressage was classic, mostly nice to watch, but they do have national centers of training france and in many countries, none in britain

some other aspects of the horse world were a bit dodgy

TBF I don't think the nexus of extreme methods in dressage training is located in Britain.

 

[tristars]

well exactly, thats why we are wanting to see change, because people don` like what they see! [Pammy is in britain}!

its well known that in many countries horses are agri animals bred for exploitation

a reputation for being animal lovers may have something to do with it, or not

horses are not agri animals in U K

 

[Cortez]

well exactly, thats why we are wanting to see change, because people don` like what they see! [Pammy is in britain}!

its well known that in many countries horses are agri animals bred for exploitation

a reputation for being animal lovers may have something to do with it, or not

horses are not agri animals in U K

I know Pammy is in Britain, I was talking to her last week. I was also talking to people in Denmark and Germany who are appalled at the Helgestrand exposé (not that it wasn't seen and commented upon before).

Agricultural horses are bred for work, it is debatable as to whether that is any more exploitative than riding them. Despite Britain regarding itself as a nation of animal lovers, there is a lot of cruelty that takes place there. People in other countries love their animals too.

 

[eahotson]

Nothing will change until the judges stop rewarding incorrect, ugly, cruel training in the ring. That's down to the FEI.

Agree.

 

[tristars]

Who are you going to speak to? What is wrong with the format of tests, exactly? Training of judges at FEI level needs to be supervised .....by the FEI. Who is going to pay rewards for video footage?

everyone!


disjointed, don`t show the animals performing movement to the best advantage, a mish mash of sudden changes from one thing to another, over demanding posture rewarded, lack of basic correct use of the horses back............ well lots more really

the F E I are spineless and visionless and have proved themselves incapable of living up to their own standards and have totally ignored animal welfare in the deeper sense for too long now this is where they have ended up.

i know lets have a go fund me page

 

[tristars]

I know Pammy is in Britain, I was talking to her last week. I was also talking to people in Denmark and Germany who are appalled at the Helgestrand exposé (not that it wasn't seen and commented upon before).

Agricultural horses are bred for work, it is debatable as to whether that is any more exploitative than riding them. Despite Britain regarding itself as a nation of animal lovers, there is a lot of cruelty that takes place there. People in other countries love their animals too.

i saw more cruelty in ireland in a few weeks than anywhere,



of course people in other countries are going to react!

when talking about agri horses we are talking about the status of horses, for example horses are not agri animals in UK therefore people pay rates on stables as far as i know

we know there is cruelty everywhere and also know people love their animals as well, so i fail to see a lot of your points

 

[Cortez]

everyone!


disjointed, don`t show the animals performing movement to the best advantage, a mish mash of sudden changes from one thing to another, over demanding posture rewarded, lack of basic correct use of the horses back............ well lots more really

the F E I are spineless and visionless and have proved themselves incapable of living up to their own standards and have totally ignored animal welfare in the deeper sense for too long now this is where they have ended up.

i know lets have a go fund me page

I suggest you contact the FEI directly, as I have done. They do actually have a welfare committee, which when I was a judge (not an FEI level one) I applied to join (hollow laughter....). I join with you in your opinion of SOME of the FEI body, not all.

I disagree with you on the tests; I have ridden at FEI level, some time ago, and found most of the tests agreeable and challenging in equal measure. I understand they have changed, must go off and have a read - I don't/won't watch competitive dressage any more.

Money is certainly what is behind the current state of the sport, there are literally billions involved in the breeding and sale of animals capable of the top level. That's how we got here, IMO. You will need an absolutely enormous Go Fund Me......

 

[Cortez]

i saw more cruelty in ireland in a few weeks than anywhere.



of course people in other countries are going to react!

when talking about agri horses we are talking about the status of horses, for example horses are not agri animals in UK therefore people pay rates on stables as far as i know

we know there is cruelty everywhere and also know people love their animals as well, so i fail to see a lot of your points

You are correct - you have completely failed to grasp the point....of pretty much everything. I'm not going to play childish "cruelty ping-pong" with you; I'm not sure where "anywhere" is, but I refer you to the RSPCA if you doubt that Britain, as well as a very large number of other places, has a problem with animal cruelty.

Speaking of points - what does the payment of rates have to do with anything?

 

[I'm Dun]

Pammy Hutton is a good egg and I agree with her on most points. Until somebody extremely well respected speaks up nothing will change. The lack of ripost from competitors and judges is indeed telling, although truly there really isn't a defense for what is going on, and has become the dreadful norm.

That group and the speaking up has been going on for at least 5yrs. Nothing has changed though.

 

[shortstuff99]

Problem is the FEI and the judges aren't going to change when you have people like IW on the steering committee who is riding the helgstrand horse and doesn't think he did anything wrong.

 

[photo_jo]

I wish there was a ban on flash nosebands in dressage in particular in the young horse classes, they couldn't ride them with that force without the strap there to winch the mouth shut. As for the photos are just a moment in time excuse, well that's an awful lot of photos and if they are only a moment in time and the rest are fine why are the studs and riders all using the moment in time ones?

 

[Goldenstar]

That group and the speaking up has been going on for at least 5yrs. Nothing has changed though.

Actually I think a great deal has changed there’s much more open debate .

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Ignore, I was looking at the wrong thing