Helgstrand…

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Seeing as he rides like this in public....View attachment 116337

I have never understood what exactly this is meant to achieve? Why would people want to ride like this.... submission?? they think it looks good? a delusion of suppleness?

I am quite concerned by what is going to be published, but have no sympathy. I also have no reservations over covert filming. Should they follow me they wouldn't find anything worth publishing, and anyone doing the right thing by their animals would feel the same. The photo of those white gates is quite ominous feeling now, leading into a horse hell that resides inside.

 

[j1ffy]

I have never understood what exactly this is meant to achieve? Why would people want to ride like this.... submission?? they think it looks good? a delusion of suppleness?

I am quite concerned by what is going to be published, but have no sympathy. I also have no reservations over covert filming. Should they follow me they wouldn't find anything worth publishing, and anyone doing the right thing by their animals would feel the same. The photo of those white gates is quite ominous feeling now, leading into a horse hell that resides inside.

Submission - he sounds like an out and out bully... Also I read somewhere it builds up muscles in the chest that make the forelegs step higher but not sure how true that is.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

So glad he lost. Undercover filming has been instrumental in uncovering abuses many, many times. It is a perfectly legitimate journalistic strategy.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Submission - he sounds like an out and out bully... Also I read somewhere it builds up muscles in the chest that make the forelegs step higher but not sure how true that is.

Right, utterly depressing - I agree with your bully comment.
How could you build a life around something you clearly have so much contempt for? He must be severely lacking in so many areas of his life and confidence, that he gets some sort of pride/good feeling out of utter cruelty.

 

[Glitter's fun]

I have never understood what exactly this is meant to achieve? Why would people want to ride like this.... submission?? they think it looks good? a delusion of suppleness?

I am quite concerned by what is going to be published, but have no sympathy. I also have no reservations over covert filming. Should they follow me they wouldn't find anything worth publishing, and anyone doing the right thing by their animals would feel the same. The photo of those white gates is quite ominous feeling now, leading into a horse hell that resides inside.

From his statement made in court..
"You have to put the horses in their place,"

..wouldn't want to be his dog or his girlfriend either !

 

[reynold]

I'm sure that the video will turn up on YouTube in some form. Sadly to the uninitiated twitterati there will be an assumption that what is shown is what all horse people are like and there will be a backlash against equestrianism in general.

I know that it was undercover filming and the grooms didn't know they were being filmed, but he must pay above average wages to keep his grooms working for him in the midst of abuse - unless they are of a like mind to him. Although I don't know what the unemployment figures are for Denmark, so maybe people need jobs and therefore turn a blind eye even if they don't like the actions of their employer.

 

[Gloi]

I know that it was undercover filming and the grooms didn't know they were being filmed, but he must pay above average wages to keep his grooms working for him in the midst of abuse - unless they are of a like mind to him. Although I don't know what the unemployment figures are for Denmark, so maybe people need jobs and therefore turn a blind eye even if they don't like the actions of their employer.

Young impressionable people will often hero worship a big name and presume they know best. I've seen it quite a lot in various circumstances

 

[Glitter's fun]

I'm sure that the video will turn up on YouTube in some form. Sadly to the uninitiated twitterati there will be an assumption that what is shown is what all horse people are like and there will be a backlash against equestrianism in general.

I know that it was undercover filming and the grooms didn't know they were being filmed, but he must pay above average wages to keep his grooms working for him in the midst of abuse - unless they are of a like mind to him. Although I don't know what the unemployment figures are for Denmark, so maybe people need jobs and therefore turn a blind eye even if they don't like the actions of their employer.

The problem is, if he is "the big man who knows" & he is taking on youngsters to work for him, they will be told that it has to be done like that.
Cross posted with @Gloi

 

[tristar]

I have never understood what exactly this is meant to achieve? Why would people want to ride like this.... submission?? they think it looks good? a delusion of suppleness?

I am quite concerned by what is going to be published, but have no sympathy. I also have no reservations over covert filming. Should they follow me they wouldn't find anything worth publishing, and anyone doing the right thing by their animals would feel the same. The photo of those white gates is quite ominous feeling now, leading into a horse hell that resides inside.

i raised this point earlier.

having thought about it, riding like that shows a total lack of understanding of how a horse arrives at each stage of training, and how this affects the ongoing progress to higher levels of performance the result being that i look at and think, why do i not like what i am seeing? what is it about the way of going of some horses that lacks artistic merit and beauty whilst gaining high scores etc because rushing on at the earlier stages leaves deficiencies that show ultimately


perhaps he is selling horses to people who are buying what they think are well started, educated horses, and do not have the skills to see through the methods used, and lack the feel to process and evaluate the quality of training, and he is producing to sell, it is a business so looking to turnover goods

i have been shot down in flames on this forum, for saying i take the slow road with training, well this is this antithesis, and i care not, my first care and duty is to my horses welfare and the long term results

 

[tristar]

From his statement made in court..

oh gosh i agree with him in this, except the place to put horses is where their self esteem grows, and their physical ability is developed, they show pride in their work and enjoy being alive!

"You have to put the horses in their place

 

[splashgirl45]

I am now finding some dressage ugly to watch. I am going to watch the European champs mainly to watch Carl and Gareth as I like the way both of them ride their tests . I absolutely love Gareth and Classic Briolinca, absolute poetry in motion , Hope I don’t see too many overbent unhappy horses but I won’t hold my breath. And heigstrand is riding a 9 year old , I’m sure I won’t like what I see

 

[shortstuff99]

I am now finding some dressage ugly to watch. I am going to watch the European champs mainly to watch Carl and Gareth as I like the way both of them ride their tests . I absolutely love Gareth and Classic Briolinca, absolute poetry in motion , Hope I don’t see too many overbent unhappy horses but I won’t hold my breath. And heigstrand is riding a 9 year old , I’m sure I won’t like what I see

Jovian has such poor training that he can't even bend round a corner. Watch his test carefully and see how he motorbikes the corner.

His lawyer is also on the Danish horse board so conflict of interest there

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

i raised this point earlier.

having thought about it, riding like that shows a total lack of understanding of how a horse arrives at each stage of training, and how this affects the ongoing progress to higher levels of performance the result being that i look at and think, why do i not like what i am seeing? what is it about the way of going of some horses that lacks artistic merit and beauty whilst gaining high scores etc because rushing on at the earlier stages leaves deficiencies that show ultimately


perhaps he is selling horses to people who are buying what they think are well started, educated horses, and do not have the skills to see through the methods used, and lack the feel to process and evaluate the quality of training, and he is producing to sell, it is a business so looking to turnover goods

i have been shot down in flames on this forum, for saying i take the slow road with training, well this is this antithesis, and i care not, my first care and duty is to my horses welfare and the long term results

I think it's less a lack of knowledge and more a pressure on time and resource input that leaves them looking for short cuts.

 

[splashgirl45]

Jovian has such poor training that he can't even bend round a corner. Watch his test carefully and see how he motorbikes the corner.

His lawyer is also on the Danish horse board so conflict of interest there

because I was expecting to hate him after that article I was surprised that I thought he did a good test and the horse wasn’t overbent although did have some tension. Gareth rode a conservative test but it was lovely to watch and he is 4th at the end of today and Carl is 1st , so we are in a good position with the two Charlottes going tomorrow

 

[shortstuff99]

because I was expecting to hate him after that article I was surprised that I thought he did a good test and the horse wasn’t overbent although did have some tension. Gareth rode a conservative test but it was lovely to watch and he is 4th at the end of today and Carl is 1st , so we are in a good position with the two Charlottes going tomorrow

Jovian still can't bend and his trot rhythm was awful.

Loved Carl's test though, master of riding an extremely hot horse to give confidence.

 

[tristar]

a video of jovian, you tube shows him competing and i have to say it is one of the most awful things ever

his front end looks completely disconnected from the back end, the piaffe is of a horse coerced into it before it was ready etc

i really don`t understand how they can present a horse at that level in that way

 

[rara007]

When do we think this will come out?

 

[splashgirl45]

a video of jovian, you tube shows him competing and i have to say it is one of the most awful things ever

his front end looks completely disconnected from the back end, the piaffe is of a horse coerced into it before it was ready etc

i really don`t understand how they can present a horse at that level in that way

74.5% in the GP Special on Friday and 12th out of 30, so the judges aren’t seeing much wrong.

 

[tristar]

74.5% in the GP Special on Friday and 12th out of 30, so the judges aren’t seeing much wrong.

must be his wonderful training methods, which might be seen in the undercover film to be shown taken at helgstrand establishment


having seen that horse, the way he moves, his sheer beauty, i could not use him for breeding there is something wrong about his backend

 

[splashgirl45]

must be his wonderful training methods, which might be seen in the undercover film to be shown taken at helgstrand establishment


having seen that horse, the way he moves, his sheer beauty, i could not use him for breeding there is something wrong about his backend

.

He looks weak in the back end to me which is quite unusual for a horse competing at that level, he looks very gangly as well

 

[shortstuff99]

.

He looks weak in the back end to me which is quite unusual for a horse competing at that level, he looks very gangly as well

Him and Imhotep are the same age but look radically different.

 

[j1ffy]

I hadn't watched the Jovian tests so just logged back in to take a look. I'm definitely not as well educated in biomechanics as other on here, but he looks weak in the back to me rather than the hind quarters. There's a lot of vertical movement through the back, it seems to dip a lot and also looks weak behind the saddle. Perhaps been rushed and not built the core strength? The movement is impressive and he's not as immature looking as I expected from the comments here, but there's something uncomfortable about it to my eye.

 

[eahotson]

i raised this point earlier.

having thought about it, riding like that shows a total lack of understanding of how a horse arrives at each stage of training, and how this affects the ongoing progress to higher levels of performance the result being that i look at and think, why do i not like what i am seeing? what is it about the way of going of some horses that lacks artistic merit and beauty whilst gaining high scores etc because rushing on at the earlier stages leaves deficiencies that show ultimately


perhaps he is selling horses to people who are buying what they think are well started, educated horses, and do not have the skills to see through the methods used, and lack the feel to process and evaluate the quality of training, and he is producing to sell, it is a business so looking to turnover goods

i have been shot down in flames on this forum, for saying i take the slow road with training, well this is this antithesis, and i care not, my first care and duty is to my horses welfare and the long term results

Well said.

 

[SantaVera]

he should be banned from ever being near to a horse or owning any or any other animal for that matter.

 

[millitiger]

It gets weirder and weirder ... the guy can't seem to do anything with integrity, honesty and the horse at the front of his mind
Are we meant to believe noone told him the horse had colic?
Who would ride a Grand Prix on a horse who had colic the previous night?

Helgstrand Loses 2023 Danish Championship Bronze Medal

Andreas Helgstrand has lost the bronze medal he won at the 2023 Danish Dressage Championship following a decision of the Danish Equestrian Federation's appeal committee.

eurodressage.com

 

[shortstuff99]

I was about to share this too! Very weird, why would you ride a top horse immediately after colic in a hard test like grand prix? I could understand a light walk to get the guts moving if necessary but not competing.

 

[Glitter's fun]

I was about to share this too! Very weird, why would you ride a top horse immediately after colic in a hard test like grand prix? I could understand a light walk to get the guts moving if necessary but not competing.

Did it have colic or did they dope it? Just asking?!

 

[shortstuff99]

Did it have colic or did they dope it? Just asking?!

Well I guess that's the million dollar question...they say it was colic as I guess that is less dodgy...sort of

 

[millitiger]

Ethically, either option is very poor
Either riding a horse which had colic or riding a horse which needed 4 x the usual dose of an anti-inflammatory for something else

Also odd that the vet is seemingly so eager to take full blame.

 

[Glitter's fun]

One of the drugs used (Traumeel) seems to be homeopathic, am I right?
The other one, Duphalyte, is to treat "fluid loss" according to this - https://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-457070 but it also says you are not meant to give it by stomach tube - it is only licensed for i/v use in horses. You put it into a vein & it attracts water to itself therefore increasing blood volume. I remember it being used in the 1980s for bleeding, but then it was superseded by blood transfusions.
Neither is indicated for colic.
The impression is that they were scratching around for unusual things to use (or things not used in the normal way) that wouldn't be on the banned list.
Very weird.
Why ever they did it I don't believe the rider wasn't told until 3 days later.