Help needed - serious loaning trouble!

horsemum said:
I'd end up electrocuted! But the farmer idea is a good one, thank you! I'll start figuring out who I can call
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haha maybe not such a good idea then! check out how the gates are hung! Some people are lazy and hang them, so they can be easily lifted off, comes in handy when you cant get padlocks off (god I sound dodgy, haha. I'm not honest) have just had many years on farms, and farmers like to make their lives easy!

normally when they hang gates they would have one bracket facing up and the other facing down! if they are both facing up, then you're in business!!
 
How about getting someone with a lorry to park outside her gate and refuse to move unless she gives you your horse and pony?

On a serious note, have any of the other liveries said much to you? If yes, gather as many witnesses as possible. If you involve the police, your word against hers is much better for you with witnesses to your claim.
 
AmieeT said:
How about getting someone with a lorry to park outside her gate and refuse to move unless she gives you your horse and pony?

On a serious note, have any of the other liveries said much to you? If yes, gather as many witnesses as possible. If you involve the police, your word against hers is much better for you with witnesses to your claim.
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On the subject of witnesses my friend and boyfriend have all witnessed her behaviour and heard threats.
 
Move the horses tomorrow, with the police, she is holding your possessions without permission, that's theft. If you owe her money she can peruse you through the courts, that's a civil matter. The police won't deal in the civil matter, but can in the theft.
 
Get onto the yard, tell police your plans and request an officer to help you reclaim your 'property' as you are worried about what she will do.

If she refuses to open the gates to allow you to get the horse and pony off, call the police, this is considered being held hostage and is of course illegal. They will attend to ensure you can escape. This has happened at least twice on a yard I was on. You will need transport and somewhere to go. I would organise this ASAP before she sells either of your pets. Offer to pay livery but nothing else. She sounds loopy.
 
horsemum said:
I'm betting on being told it's my own fault for not signing anything but here goes...

At the start of of the year I loaned my pony out to my yard owner as a companion
All expenses agreed to be paid by loaner (yard owner)
Fast forward to summer and I am asked (sorry, TOLD) to sign the pony's ownership form over to her because she has paid for her all winter so is 'entitled' to her.
She tells me my options are either to transfer ownership to her or she will calculate the money she spent on the pony all winter and I can pay it back before getting access to pony.

The entire time I had repeatedly asked the loaner (bearing in mind she was the yard owner where I kept my other horse) to let me know the exact T&Cs of the agreement so that I could put it in writing and I was fobbed off each time - too busy, going to do it 'tonight' etc

She says if I have either not signed ownership over to her or paid the money by tomorrow she will be selling the pony to recover costs - she has locked the passports away.

I am at a loss.
I will be moving my other horse as soon as possible, but she will not let me access the pony (security entry gates)

I have since found out she is barred from many local vets/farriers because of her antics and local horsey people are of the opinion that she is a nutter. Wish I had known this sooner.

Any help will be gratefully recieved
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as others say BHS - she is black mailing you, keep and print out if possible any text record any voicemail or phone message. Do not give into her as she loaned her = she is saying you have no contract on the loan, then equally you don't have a contract to say you have to pay her back for rent.

I am afraid in your position I would do a midnight flit - gradually remove all my things then on the designated day, go with friend and remove the pony from her property.

If gates are locked I would see if there was another way out or get police involved.


Go to small claims court, name her and shame her contact ITV Judge Rinder her would take the case on
 
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OP I am so sorry to hear this situation. It makes my stomach lurch. Having loaned out my horse before I cannot imagine the stress this is causing to you.

I can't really add anything other than repeat what the others have said. Save every single message, email, voicemail and make a note of the times you visit the yard and the words exchanged. Ask your boyfriend, friend, liveries etc if they would be happy to provide any details as witnesses regarding threats.

Get the police involved immediately to let them know the situation and to help you move your horse ( do not let her know when you are going to the yard to do so, I am sure someone like her would have no issues with moving the horses before you were due there.). Definitely phone the passport company and let them know not to change details.

Please keep us updated on the situation - I really hope all works out for you.
 
Her behaviour is unacceptable. You say it's just your tack and hat left? Take it home, and if she asks about it, say your taking it home to clean or something. Then you've just got to get your horses out. Organise the transport, let the police know that you will be going to get them on a certain day and that you may need immediate assistance if she resists you taking the horses, which would be holding them hostage. Tell her that the police will be arriving to back you up if she doesn't let you take them.
As for the money, I expect you could probably make a claim on her for not respecting your wishes about fly masks, and mane!

Good luck, I was in a similar situation with yard owner who wouldn't let me move horse!
 
I'm another without advice just wishing you the best to get your horses away from this woman and hope you can all update us with some much deserved good news later. Get the police involved keep yourself and your horses safe. We only live once don't let this woman try to control/blackmail you for any longer than she already has, really hope you get them out today xx
 
Hi,

Haven't we all experienced thoroughly unpleasant people in the horse world. Some "stunts" I've heard of/seen peple try to pull almost beggars belief.

Someone suggested contacting BHS. I would agree, but I'd also consider hiring a solicitor who has experience in this area (dunno what that would be..."effin' cheeky bints") Oh, and I totally agree with the other posters mentioning contacting the cops. (though they may have to be dragged into it all...as I think "loans" become a civil matter, not a criminal one. TBh, and not meaning to make light of your awful situation, I think the police fear these types of scenarios more than "domestics"

Given that she has already proven to you via her actions that she is not one for reason or amicable resolution, do not waste any time or mental energy contronting her. Get a letter before action LBA from a solicitor and let her know you mean business.

She can either acknowledge the loan is in existence (and be bound by it)

OR

Not acknowledge a loan is in existence and admit she s in possession of stolen property

Her call.

Registered mail, all the way.

Most contracts don't need to be in writing to be legally binding. Many contracts are verbal and some will not involve anything having been said or written down at all.

I took this from a CAB site:https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...er-contracts-must-the-contract-be-in-writing/

I'd also imagine a copy of all your email exchanges/texts etc would prove to any competent magistrate that there was a defacto contract. It's the spirit of the law.

On a side note (maybe this is the Northern Irish in me :) - I've resorted to these tactics before but ONLY with people who try to circumnavigate the spirit of the law -who manipulate common decency for their own ends, who believe that they can taek what is not theirs....I don't bother with CAb, lawyers or police...Get some some big boys nad girls and go down tonight and "spring" your legal property. One cannot steal that which one already owns. She's clearly not right in the head - Given your portrayel of her seemingly total departure from reasonable, rational and lawful behaviour, I'd say I was worried that my animal would be the target of malicious action. Be prepared to break open locks though

Even if she calls the cops (as she probably will) it will be up to her to prove that she hadn't stolen your horse and placed him/her under lock and key. I'd imagine you wouldn't face prosecution if you saw your stolen car locked away behind someone gate, to whihc you took a pair of bolt cutters, in order to reclaim.

When I did this, I sent the owner a mesage saying I had reclaimed my legal property which they had illegally attempted to remove. I told them I had to break a padlock, which was unalwfully denying me access to my property - I then replaced the padlock with a another and concealed the key, whose location I gave the owner in a final SMS. I had my friend film everything. Do remeber to bring a fair amount of friends though...three at least

Anyway, nothing ever happened. Sometimes you just need to show these types of bullies how strong your resolve is and they back off. This lady seems like no exception.

She is a thief, first and foremost.

A despicable filthly little thief. It's a disgusting thing.

Bear this in mind in any future dealings - do not waver - she's a reprobate, with no honour, who brings great shame to our equestrian landscape, and deserves much worse than this - just another cheeky YO who has over-stepped so often in her life, and gotten away with it, she thinks she can do whatever she wants. Time for you to re-educate her in the ways of common decency and, of course, consequences to one's actions.

Re. locked away passport, I'm quite sure a phone call to cancel old passport and pay for a new one would take care of that.

A final thought is that should she wish to exploit the "no contract" then what's stopping you from charging her with theft of your animal in the first place -since theres no evidence of a contract? Given that, then the onus would be upon her to prove that a contract was in existence, or face a charge of theft and possibly criminal damage

I'd say solicitors letter first. You might wish to expedite the entire process by delivering the latter to her, by hand, and having a few people with you to witness..maybe even record.

If she won't play ball with that, then go back in the middle of the night and remove your property. In the VERY unlikely scenario of it going any further, you can show that you attempted a resonable solution, and that the unreasonable party was herself. I wouldn't imagine any negative fallout for you.

Apols for too much info. Hope you reach a decision that's best for you.x
 
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Get your horses asap and then deal with the rest. If she has history she is likely to be known and if you mention the situation to a few local yard owners I am sure someone would help out and find you at least a temporary field.

You shouldn't transport them without passports but I don't think I would worry too much about it in this circumstances and if you don't get the pony's back you can get a replacement/replicate from the issuer.
 
ester said:
You shouldn't transport them without passports but I don't think I would worry too much about it in this circumstances and if you don't get the pony's back you can get a replacement/replicate from the issuer.
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If you have your own transport it isn't really a problem, if you don't and a transporter is unwilling to act without one, speak to your local Trading Standards. I had a loan horse whose passport was lost in the post and TS emailed me confirming that they would not prosecute in this instance.
 
IrishRegulus said:
just another cheeky YO who has over-stepped so often in her life, and gotten away with it, she thinks she can do whatever she wants. Time for you to re-educate her in the ways of common decency and, of course, consequences to one's actions.
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Nailed it.

Fantastic advice, thank you. Police coming at 2pm to take a statement, I have my proof of ownership forms laid out.
Frantically calling round livery yards looking for space, even temporarily but no luck so far.

I shall keep you posted.
 
Where abouts are you OP, you never know someone on here may know of something, or a local fb group - though granted that might be too obvious.
 
What a horrible situation :/

hope someone can help you find a yard/ field to put your horses in today.

Don't worry about this woman, it sounds like she has taken advantage of you from the beginning, show her your not taking it now and you will be taking YOUR animals wherever you like and she can see you in court for the monies owed.

Good Luck x
 
FIND beg borrow a field, stable, garden, whatever, to put your horses in, mine would be out by now even if I had to walk them miles!!!! This woman sounds a complete headcase and you sound like you are being FAR to reasonable and patient! Even if you owe her money, £250 leave her saddle, whatever but get your horses out.

I had this with an insane ex friend that loaned my miniatures. When I turned up (previously arranged) in lorry to collect them, she was there with her mother claiming because her horse had fallen in love with them they could never be separated and therefore were "now hers"!!! had written loan agreement the lot!!

Local farmer very kindly offered to lift the fence (Once I had checked with landowner who I knew) with his tractor and put ponies in the bucket and lift them over fence if required!!

I got them home and they are home with me now too!!! Never going anywhere again!
 
Careful with the bolt cutters, that's criminal damage, even if you replace it with like for like. Don't get yourself in trouble unnecessarily.
 
I would probably call the police (non emergency line) and see if they can help at all. Otherwise, I'd rock up to the yard right now with a few big friends and telling her you're taking your pony back right now and not leaving until she opened the security gate!
 
horsemum said:
Nailed it.

Fantastic advice, thank you. Police coming at 2pm to take a statement, I have my proof of ownership forms laid out.
Frantically calling round livery yards looking for space, even temporarily but no luck so far.

I shall keep you posted.
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Don't know where you are but if you are anywhere near Shropshire/Staffs/Cheshire border I can find room, even if it is only short term
 
You are clearly in the right and she's clearly in the wrong, but in your situation I have to confess I would take the path of least resistance and pay the £250, ideally getting her to sign a receipt saying I was paying under protest, and get my horses out of there. That way she hasn't got any excuse to try and stop you. Then I'd take it up through solicitors, trading standards etc afterwards when I knew my horses were safe and I could breathe and relax. Yes, that might ultimately mean kissing goodbye to £250 that is yours by right, but you might find that enforcement action would cost you more than that anyway. And on one level it's probably worth £250 to never have to set eyes on the dreadful woman ever again!
 
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