Help...quick... I have covid ?

[Jeni the dragon]

I work in hospitality and I'm still completely blown away by the behaviour of some of the customers! The week before lockdown started, a couple of our regular customers came in after only getting back from Spain the day before, but saw no problem with that. That weekend there was a group came in who had just been flown back from somewhere Mediterranean, the exact place escapes me. They were dropped off on their way home.

One of the local restaurant owners has a house in Spain. They flew all their staff out for a holiday and have just been caught working within their quarantine period.

I'm off work this week and have already postponed any of my planned trips to catch up with friends as I just don't think it's worth the risk. I really don't want to have to self isolate but I'm fully prepared to if I have to.

 

[Cortez]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/summer-flu-is-now-more-deadly-than-covid

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....tributed-deaths-covid-since-june-new-ons/amp/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/107790/flu-killing-more-people-than-covid-19?amp


I will cite references rather than just hearsay. Figures taken from the ONS

Interestingly one of the articles also says that summer flu deaths are down 50% on the yearly average which shows that social distancing etc probably is working

I was wondering if we'd see 'flu cases reduce as a result of all the hand washing and mask wearing going on; makes sense.

 

[Gloi]

I was wondering if we'd see 'flu cases reduce as a result of all the hand washing and mask wearing going on; makes sense.

In Australia where they have been through winter they have had a very low amount of flu probably due to the social distancing.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Agh but the figures quoted are influenza AND pneumonia, Covid and pneumonia would beat it hands down.
Pneumonia kills most people in hospital, often caught in hospital as a result of going in for something else. That makes sense , but I would be very surprised if more people died of summer flu than Covid .

Totally agree with this. Also, it’s often acquired as a complication of other illnesses, or through being bedridden.

I think there is a bit of muddling of immediate causes, underlying causes and contributing factors in a lot of what the media puts out there at the moment and it’s causing a lot of confusion.

 

[tristar]

I was wondering if we'd see 'flu cases reduce as a result of all the hand washing and mask wearing going on; makes sense.

of course, that`s how its transmitted, snot and dirty hands, if you wan to avoid a cold mask and gloves hand washing

amazing how the obvious and most simple things we already know are normally ignored

 

[Gloi]

of course, that`s how its transmitted, snot and dirty hands, if you wan to avoid a cold mask and gloves hand washing

amazing how the obvious and most simple things we already know are normally ignored

Hopefully there might also be an end to the culture where people are forced to come into work full of germs and spread it round the office for fear of being disciplined for being off.

 

[Winters100]

What I see every day is terrified people, terrified of leaving their houses (using the correct precautions) who have lost the ability to risk manage for themselves and lost all perspective

Out of interest where are you finding these people who are irrationally terrified to leave their house? I suppose there are lots if you are seeing them every day. I ask because I have not come across this at all. I know several people who would be highly vulnerable to this disease, and who therefore take the sensible decision to avoid contact with others to the greatest possible extent, but this would not fall into your description of people who have lost the ability to manage risk and who are lacking in perspective. I also know several people working in the medical profession who, along with their families, avoid contact with others, either because they are exposed to the disease through their work and do not wish to put others at risk, or because they treat people who fall into the vulnerable category. I would describe neither of these groups as having lost the ability to manage risk.

Are you quite sure that the people that you are describing as 'terrified' are not actually just people who understand the risks, both for themselves and for society, and therefore choose to avoid contact with others as much as possible? I would certainly not describe myself as 'terrified', but I am also aware that with a family member working in a hospital there is a higher risk that we could either get this disease and pass it to others, or we could contract it elsewhere and pass it to vulnerable people in the hospital. We are therefore avoiding contact as much as possible.

What you have to remember when you talk about the number of deaths is that we had a lockdown and many additional measures. I don't think anyone would dispute that without these measures the NHS would have been totally overwhelmed and the number of deaths much higher. If only more people would choose to stay home a bit more then perhaps the numbers would be lower than they are today.

 

[stormox]

Things I do not understand about covid:
1) Is the severity of the disease dependant on the exposure? ie do you get it worse if you inhale a lot of the virus from an infected person rather than just touching something an infected person touched?
2) Is it bad to keep totally away from any infection so we get no immunity built up?
3) When we get tested are they testing for antibodies we have produced or the actual virus?

Maybe some of the knowledgeable people on here can enlighten me....

 

[ROG]

Yes but at the peak 1445 people died in 1 Day. So double the normal deaths each day from Covid. If that happened again which is most likely will then even more die. The death rate from Covid is already higher than that of flu.

That is the past not the present
History shows us that this sort of virus does its worst at the start

 

[Tiddlypom]

I am one those vulnerable people who has risk assessed the situation and has decided to keep on more or less sheltering. I am not ‘terrified’, I have weighed up the pros and cons and favour a more cautious approach. I’ll walk the dog or go out on my bike, but otherwise I rarely leave home.

It is much more possible for me than many other vulnerable people because I am retired and I also kept the neds at home. I can be outdoors for hours exercising here in the fresh air without leaving our small acreage.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

That is the past not the present
History shows us that this sort of virus does its worst at the start

Actually, it doesn't. The 'Spanish' flu pandemic had a 2nd wave which killed more people than the 1st wave.

 

[ROG]

If the schools are not closed then in 2/3 weeks time the Govt will find that they have only reduced the infection rise by very little because schools are bug central

Govts choice - close schools and accept a ruined economy or keep schools open and accept infection rise

 

[Abi90]

Out of interest where are you finding these people who are irrationally terrified to leave their house? I suppose there are lots if you are seeing them every day. I ask because I have not come across this at all. I know several people who would be highly vulnerable to this disease, and who therefore take the sensible decision to avoid contact with others to the greatest possible extent, but this would not fall into your description of people who have lost the ability to manage risk and who are lacking in perspective. I also know several people working in the medical profession who, along with their families, avoid contact with others, either because they are exposed to the disease through their work and do not wish to put others at risk, or because they treat people who fall into the vulnerable category. I would describe neither of these groups as having lost the ability to manage risk.

Are you quite sure that the people that you are describing as 'terrified' are not actually just people who understand the risks, both for themselves and for society, and therefore choose to avoid contact with others as much as possible? I would certainly not describe myself as 'terrified', but I am also aware that with a family member working in a hospital there is a higher risk that we could either get this disease and pass it to others, or we could contract it elsewhere and pass it to vulnerable people in the hospital. We are therefore avoiding contact as much as possible.

What you have to remember when you talk about the number of deaths is that we had a lockdown and many additional measures. I don't think anyone would dispute that without these measures the NHS would have been totally overwhelmed and the number of deaths much higher. If only more people would choose to stay home a bit more then perhaps the numbers would be lower than they are today.

It is quite literally all over Facebook. Both with people I know personally and people on, for example, BBC news articles.

I have several friends who are teachers who were giving each other pep talks about going back to school because they were “really scared”. All 3 are fit and healthy and 30 years old with no known underlying conditions. All 3 have been going to the pub though...

These are not the people who only go out when necessary, wear a face mask etc these are not the vulnerable who are more at risk. These are the people who chastise parents for sending their children to school because, and I quote, “you will be picking up your child from school in a body bag” etc and the people who quote things like “40% of all cases end up in the ICU”.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Things I do not understand about covid:
1) Is the severity of the disease dependant on the exposure? ie do you get it worse if you inhale a lot of the virus from an infected person rather than just touching something an infected person touched?
2) Is it bad to keep totally away from any infection so we get no immunity built up?
3) When we get tested are they testing for antibodies we have produced or the actual virus?

Maybe some of the knowledgeable people on here can enlighten me....

I can try to answer from what I know, with the caveat that as research deepens, we understand more and understandings will change.

As it stands, there is a thought that the viral load (how much of the virus) effects severity. That being said, so do a lot of other factors. If we were taking the ideal perfectly healthy person (a unicorn, really) then yes, viral load would seem to play a role. However, even a small amount of the virus can trigger an immune response in some that becomes dangerous, or can aggravate existing weaknesses.

The second question is the hardest to answer- I’m not sure we will ever truly know. Bad for the overall resilience of the human race, maybe. But we don’t really work like that - as a society, we tend to want to protect our weak and that is such an important part of humanity too.

On the third. There are antigen tests and antibody tests. They are different, and you’d usually be tested for the presence of COVID if you’re being tested due to symptoms or recent exposure. Antibody testing is really useful to understand the wider context and scale of the spread but it’s too soon to test for antibodies as part of making recommendations on how a person should manage their interactions and health, and that’s the primary reason for testing right now.

 

[honetpot]

and people who were tested positive for covid and took 5 weeks to die from it are no longer counted.

I don't think so. Anything they die of if its a complication of covid it will be mentioned on the death certificate, if you die in ITU or in hospital, from multiple organ failure as a complication of the virus. If you are in car accident and die from your injuries the previous covid infection will not a contributing factor, so not mentioned, unless of course on PM they find out you had a stoke or embolism that they think was caused by damage from the virus.
'Two new deaths indicators will now be used by all four nations in the UK to provide a full picture of both recent trends and the longer-term burden of the disease.
The additional indicators which will be used to calculate daily death figures are:

• the number of deaths in people with COVID-19 that occur within 28 days of a first positive laboratory-confirmed test. This is intended to provide a headline indicator of the immediate impact of recent epidemic activity. Deaths that occur more than 28 days after a positive test will not be included in this count.
• the number of deaths that occur within 60 days of a first positive test. Deaths that occur after 60 days will also be added to this figure if COVID-19 appears on the death certificate. This will provide a more complete measure of the burden of the disease over time.

 

[Gloi]

I don't think so. Anything they die of if its a complication of covid it will be mentioned on the death certificate, if you die in ITU or in hospital, from multiple organ failure as a complication of the virus. If you are in car accident and die from your injuries the previous covid infection will not a contributing factor, so not mentioned, unless of course on PM they find out you had a stoke or embolism that they think was caused by damage from the virus.
'Two new deaths indicators will now be used by all four nations in the UK to provide a full picture of both recent trends and the longer-term burden of the disease.
The additional indicators which will be used to calculate daily death figures are:

• the number of deaths in people with COVID-19 that occur within 28 days of a first positive laboratory-confirmed test. This is intended to provide a headline indicator of the immediate impact of recent epidemic activity. Deaths that occur more than 28 days after a positive test will not be included in this count.
• the number of deaths that occur within 60 days of a first positive test. Deaths that occur after 60 days will also be added to this figure if COVID-19 appears on the death certificate. This will provide a more complete measure of the burden of the disease over time.

Why do the news media quote the figure of people who died within 28 days then?

 

[Gloi]

That sounds a good way to ensure anyone worried about problems from self isolating avoids going for a test.

Also they have been saying now on TV that anyone asked by test and trace to self isolate must do so. The result of this is likely to be more people giving false details to any venue asking for contact trace details.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Why do the news media quote the figure of people who died within 28 days then?

Because the media like to simplify everything. They seem to be afraid of nuance.

 

[Frumpoon]

Why do the news media quote the figure of people who died within 28 days then?

Headlines and also by 28 days deaths may well have been assessed by coroners so be a more accurate number

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I am one those vulnerable people who has risk assessed the situation and has decided to keep on more or less sheltering. I am not ‘terrified’, I have weighed up the pros and cons and favour a more cautious approach. I’ll walk the dog or go out on my bike, but otherwise I rarely leave home.

It is much more possible for me than many other vulnerable people because I am retired and I also kept the neds at home. I can be outdoors for hours exercising here in the fresh air without leaving our small acreage.

I could have written this myself, I am not terrified to any extent but happily keep myself at home in a beautiful isolated location enjoying my animals and family. I am fortunate that two grown up sons also live here and one son is also vulnerable and is rarely able to leave the home under normal circumstances anyway. My husband (nearly 80) and my other son get all the shopping/prescriptions needed but both have observed very strict protocol from day one for fear of brining it home to us who are more vulnerable than they are. I also make good use of home delivery for the 'big weekly shop' .

I must admit to being a tad concerned as I have had to visit A&E on two occasions in the past 3 months, and consequently had to revisit for tests and MRI, and will probably have to do so again in a couple of weeks. Worried and slightly anxious would best describe my feeling when going to the hospital. Terrified??? Hardly that or anything near terrified, and more than capable of making my own sensible risk assessments.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I wouldn't say I'm terrified but I'm not so desperate to return to "normal" that I'm going to gamble my long term health on it just yet. If I could trust that All The Other People were following the rules well maybe. But I know they aren't. Most of what I see on Facebook is pictures of "socially distanced" gatherings where people appear to be actually just standing right next to each other. ? And here we are on a post from a tested positive person who is confused about what isolation actually means. They won't be the only one. I just consider myself very fortunate that I don't HAVE to go out and I'm very glad that I'm not a teacher any more.

If that makes me somehow weak and feeble minded then so be it. But I don't think even a mild Covid infection is something to be taken lightly. We've no idea about the long term effects the (very fit runner type) people I know that have had it, and had it relatively mildly, are still struggling.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Mrs Jingle, I went to the doctors and A&E during the very worst at the start of lockdown. It was very well managed and I actually think the supermarket trips MrPF did at the time were probably a higher risk. The hospitals will have good systems in place.

 

[teapot]

I was wondering if we'd see 'flu cases reduce as a result of all the hand washing and mask wearing going on; makes sense.

Cases of rhino and noro virus dropped in Feb and March this year, I assume due to increased hand washing.

 

[canteron]

If the schools are not closed then in 2/3 weeks time the Govt will find that they have only reduced the infection rise by very little because schools are bug central

Govts choice - close schools and accept a ruined economy or keep schools open and accept infection rise

This should be the absolute last resort. So many children have missed out - it’s ok if your parents are middle class and pushy but for so many many children this year has been a disaster and their life chances are fading fast.
Close pubs early and completely ban foreign holidays before this.
As a last controversial point, some teachers have been amazing during lockdown - but some have pretty much abandoned their job in favour of a beach suntan. I know teachers who should be given an award and a pay rise and some who should be put in the stocks for abandoning their pupils - it is a vocational job choice after all.
Clever schools are managing the risk really well, others need to step up their game.

 

[ROG]

It must be horrible for the school kids because the older ones have probably worked out that because of them the death rate is going up albeit not their decision to cause that

 

[maya2008]

This thread really highlights how EVERYONE needs a plan for what to do if they are incapacitated and cannot care for their animals. It might be COVID, it might be a car crash, it might be the flu... but everyone needs a groom or friend or neighbour they can call, who will be able to do their horses if they need help.

 

[Arzada]

On another note, I was reading about one of the things that caused the spike in cases in Bolton.

Some great eejit came back from holiday abroad and not only refused to self isolate, but went on a pub crawl. Two days later he tested positive for covid. ?

A friend/relative of my friend lives in Bolton. They are shortly going on holiday to Turkey. Looking at Bolton's lockdown rules it is OK to go on holiday outside the borough. You can't however travel to another area without restrictions to visit family or friends.

 

[ester]

On the third. There are antigen tests and antibody tests. They are different, and you’d usually be tested for the presence of COVID if you’re being tested due to symptoms or recent exposure. Antibody testing is really useful to understand the wider context and scale of the spread but it’s too soon to test for antibodies as part of making recommendations on how a person should manage their interactions and health, and that’s the primary reason for testing right now.

and PCR tests (most of the current testing) which is not normally included in the umbrella of antigen testing.

 

[Winters100]

This thread really highlights how EVERYONE needs a plan for what to do if they are incapacitated and cannot care for their animals. It might be COVID, it might be a car crash, it might be the flu... but everyone needs a groom or friend or neighbour they can call, who will be able to do their horses if they need help.

I think most people do - at least I would hope so. Also a plan agreed for the care and financial support of the animals in case of an untimely death. Doesn't make for the most cheerful discussion, but without specific arrangements animals all pass into the hands of the next of kin, and in the case of my animals this would not be my preference. Dogs stay here if anything happens to me, but horses go to a horsey friend with an allowance to pay for their keep and a mechanism for the allowance to be reviewed should costs increase / unexpected expenses arise.

 

[Mucking out - still]

Hey, dominobrown - no-one's thinking it's your fault and I think we're all heartily sorry you're in this position. All the encouragement to take isolation seriously though is just that - serious. You really can't afford to mix in any way at all with others and I guess technically no-one should be coming to the yard at all. This is a horrible situation and one that any yard might face. Many have emergency plans in case the worst happens, but facing it if it does is not easy. Don't panic and I'm sure you and your liveries will manage it between you. Take care and good luck xx