Help! Sharer snow day dilemma

[Gingerwitch]

YM does mornings anyway. Sorry I didn't explain the DIY with assistance very well.

Got you. X

 

[Squeak]

From the sounds of it, if the horse only needs mucking out (and potentially just a worst of/ skip out) and the YM has already put out and bought in and hay is ready then I wouldn't have thought it was much for the YM to have helped out and done.

Maybe there's history with the owner and the YM which is why the YM isn't stepping in? I would have expected the owner to have been involve in conversations and trying to support.

Hope you've managed to get it all sorted.

 

[conkers]

If it is not safe to leave the house and the horse has hay and water then I'm afraid I would leave the mucking out until tomorrow. Not ideal and very much a last resort option but the horse won't die from being in a dirty stable. But you might be injured if you try and venture out. Best to stay safe.

 

[Trouper]

If you are sharing and the days are fixed then it's just tough if your day turns out to be horrendous weather-wise.
But from what you say, there is some flexibility in the arrangement - and that should work both ways.
When the dust has settled on this drama maybe there needs to be a Plan B put in place for just such contingencies??

 

[Wishfilly]

In future, I wouldn't be quick to swap a pre-arranged day with the owner though!

I think maybe there needs to be a more formalised arrangement- even if days are flexible. I think it needs to be in writing what happens if you can't get there and this needs to be shared with the Yard Manager.

I agree that car sharing isn't an appropriate solution due to Covid.

 

[Michen]

I wouldn’t dream of leaving my sharer to do the horses in weather like this. My horses, my responsibility and it would be me getting there any way I could.

This is my take as someone with two horses and a sharer.

 

[Honey08]

I disagree that the YO is at fault here. You should keep your horse somewhere you CAN get to in bad weather, even if it means walking. It’s one of the first things I say to my liveries- it’s sometimes bad weather here, are you sure you’ll be able to get here? This yard owner has already gone and done her responsibilities, despite struggling getting there. She’s offering a lift to the others, (yes awkward with Covid) who are, quite frankly, coming across as a bit pathetic. You shouldn’t be dumping last minute requests for mucking out on your YO. It should’ve been arranged earlier. “It’s looking like a bad forecast for weekend, could you do my horse in case I can’t get there (paid).” Contrary to popular belief YOs have lives and don’t sit around waiting for instructions. And there’s often a million more jobs they need to be doing in bad weather. I got rid of a lazy livery this autumn because I could see this sort of thing happening regularly (id always tell liveries to stay home in genuine blizzard or dangerous conditions, but a couple of inches of snow doesn’t come into that category). This week, while we’ve had snow, ice and heavy rain we’ve said several times “thank goodness X isn’t still here“ because we know we’d not have seen her all week. My remaining lovely livery would walk across the fields to get here.

Whether you or the owner should go up really depends on the arrangements. I’d say it should be you really, but it’s ultimately the owner’s horse.

 

[Littlewills]

(id always tell liveries to stay home in genuine blizzard or dangerous conditions, but a couple of inches of snow doesn’t come into that category).

Then you havent seen the roads round here. It may only be a couple of inches of snow, but the amount of crashed and abandonded cars says people are struggling and shoudlnt be leaving the house. Obviously people with animals to care for either need to go or activate their back up plan. A sharer doesnt need to go and is not the back up plan.

I'm genuinely horrified that any owner would let someone put themselves at risk, both in the snow and of COVID, in order to do their horse.

 

[Rowreach]

I disagree that the YO is at fault here. You should keep your horse somewhere you CAN get to in bad weather, even if it means walking. It’s one of the first things I say to my liveries- it’s sometimes bad weather here, are you sure you’ll be able to get here? This yard owner has already gone and done her responsibilities, despite struggling getting there. She’s offering a lift to the others, (yes awkward with Covid) who are, quite frankly, coming across as a bit pathetic. You shouldn’t be dumping last minute requests for mucking out on your YO. It should’ve been arranged earlier. “It’s looking like a bad forecast for weekend, could you do my horse in case I can’t get there (paid).” Contrary to popular belief YOs have lives and don’t sit around waiting for instructions. And there’s often a million more jobs they need to be doing in bad weather. I got rid of a lazy livery this autumn because I could see this sort of thing happening regularly (id always tell liveries to stay home in genuine blizzard or dangerous conditions, but a couple of inches of snow doesn’t come into that category). This week, while we’ve had snow, ice and heavy rain we’ve said several times “thank goodness X isn’t still here“ because we know we’d not have seen her all week. My remaining lovely livery would walk across the fields to get here.

Whether you or the owner should go up really depends on the arrangements. I’d say it should be you really, but it’s ultimately the owner’s horse.

Mine is several miles from here, over a mountain (or a long way round on better roads), and there are days when it is too dangerous or even impossible for me to get there, so we have a contingency arrangement in place for if that happens. But we put that in place back in the summer, when I first arranged to keep her there and in the knowledge that at some point it would snow

OP once this is sorted, I would have a chat with the owner and YO and figure out what you will do next time. I think that as the YO phoned you and basically told you not to come, she could have just stepped up at that point and done the basics with him herself. But ultimately it is the owner's thing to sort, not the sharer's.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

OP, hope you got this sorted.
I do think that your owner should have immediately stepped up tho and at least spoken to the YO to sort out.
I'm not that far away by miles and any road off the main ones is pretty atrocious!

I'd have stepped in as a YO and just done them all.
My lovely neighbour pulled one of mine back in for me late morning

 

[stormox]

Owners horse= owners responsibility!!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

As far as I know YM turned them all out, mucked out and then brought them all in as it was snowing so heavily. I think the only thing to be done is muck out as I got the hay for today ready to go last night. YM has extra to do with their own horses so is holding firm that if its not me then it needs to be owner. Owner is saying they can't get there either/not comfortable with the car share.

I've investigated the roads near my house and I think I can make it out to the main roads and to YM house. I'm not keen on it but I don't fancy my chances walking on roads, its a long trek uphill and winding. I'm going to do my best to get there and if not the only choice I have is to message owner.



Initially they said don't try to come up at all since they themselves got stuck at the yard and had seen various cars around the area stuck/abandoned. As they've since managed to get unstuck and presumably roads in the area not so bad, they've offered the lift.

Sorry but the owner of the horses attitude is crap, so basically it's ok for you to struggle in your car or potentially share a car with yo, but they are not prepared to? I would tell her to stick it quite frankly and not go back.

 

[Michen]

I disagree that the YO is at fault here. You should keep your horse somewhere you CAN get to in bad weather, even if it means walking. It’s one of the first things I say to my liveries- it’s sometimes bad weather here, are you sure you’ll be able to get here? This yard owner has already gone and done her responsibilities, despite struggling getting there. She’s offering a lift to the others, (yes awkward with Covid) who are, quite frankly, coming across as a bit pathetic. You shouldn’t be dumping last minute requests for mucking out on your YO. It should’ve been arranged earlier. “It’s looking like a bad forecast for weekend, could you do my horse in case I can’t get there (paid).” Contrary to popular belief YOs have lives and don’t sit around waiting for instructions. And there’s often a million more jobs they need to be doing in bad weather. I got rid of a lazy livery this autumn because I could see this sort of thing happening regularly (id always tell liveries to stay home in genuine blizzard or dangerous conditions, but a couple of inches of snow doesn’t come into that category). This week, while we’ve had snow, ice and heavy rain we’ve said several times “thank goodness X isn’t still here“ because we know we’d not have seen her all week. My remaining lovely livery would walk across the fields to get here.

Whether you or the owner should go up really depends on the arrangements. I’d say it should be you really, but it’s ultimately the owner’s horse.

Er I agree with a lot of that bar lots of people cannot keep their horse somewhere walkable. I cannot walk up a dual carriage way to get to mine.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I would only ever choose a yard with an onsite YO who was prepared to help at short notice in bad weather. Honey08's position is fine as long as she is clear up front - which it sounds like she is. But I could not guaranetee getting there every daty. One livery got stuck on the way to the yard yesterday and needed rescue. I got there but it was a bit hairy.

 

[Winters100]

I've never had a sharer, or been one, but my understanding of how it works is that the horse is your responsibility on the days that you have. Regardless that you agreed to swap days I think that in this case you need to find a way to get there, or if it is truly impossible, to make other arrangements for care to be provided. When I had this situation I just walked from the nearest passable road, took a couple of hours, but then we will walk the dogs for that long for pleasure, so it is not such a problem. As an owner I would probably be quite put out if a sharer let me down because of snow, but perhaps I am misunderstanding how the arrangement works.

Regarding YO I do not really see it as their responsibility to do the horse unless they had been notified in advance that the person responsible would not be able to attend in bad weather, and arrangements that in this case they would see to the horse agreed in advance.

 

[Michen]

I've never had a sharer, or been one, but my understanding of how it works is that the horse is your responsibility on the days that you have. Regardless that you agreed to swap days I think that in this case you need to find a way to get there, or if it is truly impossible, to make other arrangements for care to be provided. When I had this situation I just walked from the nearest passable road, took a couple of hours, but then we will walk the dogs for that long for pleasure, so it is not such a problem. As an owner I would probably be quite put out if a sharer let me down because of snow, but perhaps I am misunderstanding how the arrangement works.

Regarding YO I do not really see it as their responsibility to do the horse unless they had been notified in advance that the person responsible would not be able to attend in bad weather, and arrangements that in this case they would see to the horse agreed in advance.

But it’s not their horse.

Put it this way. Getting in the car to get to horses in the snow is risky. A risk of getting stuck, a risk of crashing the car etc. Why should a sharer take that risk over an owner if the sharer is not comfortable with it?

Tbh, if I was the sharer I’d have looked at the weather forecast and made other arrangements before it happened. And if I was the owner i would have checked with sharer “are you comfortable driving in snow”, rather than letting this situation happen in the first place.

At the end of the day owners are responsible for their horses care or YO depending on agreement. What if sharer had an emergency?

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Maybe there's history with the owner and the YM which is why the YM isn't stepping in?

Maybe the line of how much assistance is given for assisted DIY has been blurred. I'm not sure really.

She’s offering a lift to the others, (yes awkward with Covid) who are, quite frankly, coming across as a bit pathetic.

I absolutely see YM perspective here but your comment calling me pathetic can quite frankly get in the bin. I'm not some flakey, lazy sharer trying to duck out because I just didn't feel like it today. I commit to my days and stick to them. I do all the jobs as shown and sometimes over and above. I have often on my days helped the YM out with various jobs around the yard as well.

Its reassuring to see a range of replies tbh because I think that shows why I was so unsure about the 'right' thing to do. As it was I decided to head to YM and accept the lift. This was not perfect but the best I could have done. My car absolutely would have not made it anywhere near the yard. I'd even offered to do extra jobs or pay for the cover if I hadn't been able to get as far as the YM.

I'm still none the wiser about what would have happened if this hadn't just happened to fall on my day. I will be asking owner and YM if we can clarify this for future. I'm not about to start bailing for no good reason, that is not who I am, but unusual/emergency situations can come up and I need to know what happens if this falls on my day.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Tbh, if I was the sharer I’d have looked at the weather forecast and made other arrangements before it happened. And if I was the owner i would have checked with sharer “are you comfortable driving in snow”, rather than letting this situation happen in the first place.

I asked the other day about what to do if icy (i.e. safer routes to take or just not ride) and owner didn't think that would be a problem so to be honest I think we both made the error of underestimating how severe the weather would be today. I will endeavor not to make this mistake again.

 

[Gingerwitch]

If you have made a commitment you cannot just decided I cannot do it. Drive and walk, get a taxi.
Phone a friend. Have a plan already.
You always need to think what if. I always have mine on an in. Why for the very real reason the yard knows I want ponies in. I have no idea what the weather is like when I am in Scotland, merthyr or Cornwall. So always want my horses being brought in.
What would happen if pony was turned out and poor sod was left out alone going mental. Wondering why he had been left out to be killed by wolves.
The whole post is appalling from yard owner to owner to loaner. You all need your heads banging together and need to start putting the welfare of the pony first. If yard cannot oblige move. If owner can't be bothered give her notice and the loaner too.

 

[Michen]

SPD I don’t think you’ve been flakey at all btw, I just mean if I were you I’d look at the weather firrcast and make it clear to owner you aren’t happy to drive in snow.

I think the owner has let you down more than anything frankly. I would not expect my sharer to drive in risky conditions to do MY horses over me doing so.

I don’t agree with the it’s your day your commitment attitude. Yes when it’s not dangerous or risky to get to yard or if it’s just a case of rubbish weather so you can’t ride but this is an exceptional circumstance and I’d expect owner to be pulling her finger out to look after her horses and actually you, as good sharers are hard to come by.

 

[Melody Grey]

There have been times when me and a friend have been the only ones to get to our old yard- at the top of a very steep hill and we’d managed to walk from home. We hayed, watered and skipped out 40 horses between us. Too dangerous to expect anyone else to risk it and we were already there. In this situation I’d expect the yard owner/ manager to apply the same logic. I see that it’s not a preferable circumstance, but these are not normal times and we need to pull together to keep everyone safe.

ETA: we all used to double up hay rations and water when snow was forecast- in worse case scenario, potentially could take half a day to get up there!

 

[PapaverFollis]

I just think if owner was happy to take a day off you because of nice weather then she should also be happy to get handed a day because you weren't happy driving in the snow. Now, not only have you had to drive in the snow, you've added to your Covid risk by car sharing with YM.

If I was a sharer I'd probably insist it was my day so I was going (stubborn baggage martyr etc) BUT I wouldn't have been happy to hand over my day to the owner so they could ride in nice weather instead of me either! It's got to work both ways.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

SPD I don’t think you’ve been flakey at all btw, I just mean if I were you I’d look at the weather firrcast and make it clear to owner you aren’t happy to drive in snow.

I think the owner has let you down more than anything frankly. I would not expect my sharer to drive in risky conditions to do MY horses over me doing so.

I don’t agree with the it’s your day your commitment attitude. Yes when it’s not dangerous or risky to get to yard or if it’s just a case of rubbish weather so you can’t ride but this is an exceptional circumstance and I’d expect owner to be pulling her finger out to look after her horses and actually you, as good sharers are hard to come by.

Thank you no I didn't think you meant that at all - it's just some responses give off that I'm a crap sharer because I hesitated about making a legitimately risky journey as if I'd just decided I'd rather sit on the sofa watching TV all day. If I'd clocked that it was going to be so bad today I would have raised that the journey would likely have been an issue.

 

[Winters100]

But it’s not their horse.
?

OK, my mistake then. I thought the thing with a 'share' was that it was just as if it was your horse on certain days, so your responsibility and owner would be free to make arrangements to be elsewhere without being on stand by, i.e. not the same as just paying to ride a horse when you choose. We don't have the concept of sharing where I am, so I am not familiar with it.

 

[splashgirl45]

some years ago i got stuck trying to get to the yard, i left at 7 for a normally 18min journey and was only half way there at 10.30. i had been in touch with YO and said i would get there but at 10.30 all the roads were at a standstill and i was just about to leave my car and head off across the fields when YO phoned to tell me she had skipped out and fed everyone so i was to go home and not keep trying. my horse didnt care that she wasnt mucked out, as long as she had food and water and her rug was ok, she was happy. even if my horse hadnt been skipped out ,as long as she had food and water i could sort the bed out the next day...

 

[mavandkaz]

OK, my mistake then. I thought the thing with a 'share' was that it was just as if it was your horse on certain days, so your responsibility and owner would be free to make arrangements to be elsewhere without being on stand by, i.e. not the same as just paying to ride a horse when you choose. We don't have the concept of sharing where I am, so I am not familiar with it.

In essence, yes a sharer treats the horse as their own (although doing things the way the owner wants) on that day. BUT you have to draw the.line somewhere, and ultimately the responsibility lies with the owner.
Eg if my sharer had an accident or an emergency and was unable to get to the yard at short notice, of course I would step in. At worst I would get YO to do the horse if I was unable, but generally I would be able to as it is my horse. In the same way, if my sharer found something wrong with my horse that needed vet attention, I wouldn't expect her to deal with it (would actually be rather annoyed if she did without running it past me first)
My sharer was due out during the storm last week. I told her not to bother, as she would have needed to drive in potentially dangerous conditions, just to muck out. I was going to the yard anyway for my other horse, so no issue to me.

 

[Chianti]

I've had a few sharers and would never expect them to put themselves at risk on one of their days with my pony. It's the owner's responsibility to have contingency plans in place for a long list of eventualities. If it's really impossible for the owner to get to the yard in bad weather then they need to move yards or put the horse somewhere with full assistance. My pony is on assisted grass livery so I knew he'd be looked after today but I did manage to get there to see him once the snow had stopped. I've also been a sharer and, when much younger, would very stupidly drive to do the horse when it had snowed- this in an old mini 850 which was about 4 inches off the ground!

 

[HashRouge]

OK, my mistake then. I thought the thing with a 'share' was that it was just as if it was your horse on certain days, so your responsibility and owner would be free to make arrangements to be elsewhere without being on stand by, i.e. not the same as just paying to ride a horse when you choose. We don't have the concept of sharing where I am, so I am not familiar with it.

You are theoretically right about how shares work. However, the horse is ALWAYS still the owner's ultimate responsibility, so in extraordinary circumstances they should expect to be called on. Put it this way, if the vet was needed on a day where the sharer was doing the horse, you would expect the owner to deal with that. I count a blizzard and the sharer being unable to get to the yard safely as extraordinary circumstances and I would expect the owner to take ultimate responsibility for ensuring the horse is seen to, even if it was one of the sharer's days. After all, the owner is the person who has chosen to keep the horse on a yard where the YO doesn't offer livery.

 

[HashRouge]

In essence, yes a sharer treats the horse as their own (although doing things the way the owner wants) on that day. BUT you have to draw the.line somewhere, and ultimately the responsibility lies with the owner.
Eg if my sharer had an accident or an emergency and was unable to get to the yard at short notice, of course I would step in. At worst I would get YO to do the horse if I was unable, but generally I would be able to as it is my horse. In the same way, if my sharer found something wrong with my horse that needed vet attention, I wouldn't expect her to deal with it (would actually be rather annoyed if she did without running it past me first)
My sharer was due out during the storm last week. I told her not to bother, as she would have needed to drive in potentially dangerous conditions, just to muck out. I was going to the yard anyway for my other horse, so no issue to me.

This is such a good post. I think some posters need to remember that a share is not an equal arrangement. The owner has every right to tell the sharer that they must do X with the horse but can't do Y, and must only do Z on certain days under certain circumstances. That is fine, that is there prerogative as an owner. But that does also mean that the buck stops with them, and they can't expect the sharer to do things like drive in dangerous conditions to get to the horse if they (the owner) aren't willing to do that! I share a horse 10 miles away, not a chance I'd try to drive there in a blizzard in my tiny car and no way am I walking 10 miles. Luckily his owner is a sensible lady and texted me this morning to say not to bother trying to get there due to the weather. She has a 4x4. I do not! She also lives closer!

 

[EllenJay]

I just don't understand when you first spoke to the YM (at mid-day) why you didn't ask them to just bring in and give enough hay for the rest of the day and night. You may have had to pay but can't see why there was such a drama and why you got the owner involved. Your day - your responsibility to sort it out