Help! Sharer snow day dilemma

[Michen]

Moral of this story = always live close enough to owned horse(s) that you could walk if you absolutely had to. Then owner could have gone up! Well or have a super 4x4 to help you!

I have walked for nearly 1.5 hours each way when I really had to. After that, no horse was ever that far from home, no matter how nice the yard!

Because every horse owner in the UK has such a huge choice of yards that provide what their horse needs that they can ALWAYS find somewhere suitable within walking distance ?‍

 

[Caol Ila]

Because every horse owner in the UK has such a huge choice of yards that provide what their horse needs that they can ALWAYS find somewhere suitable within walking distance ?‍

Yeah, especially the ones who live in cities.

I have the 4x4 with winter tyres, though.

 

[Red-1]

I've asked to clarify on exactly these things. I think it's possible that aspects of the livery agreement are not clear. Which isn't up to me as sharer obviously its not my livery agreement but I think has possibly impacted on the situation today. Hopefully by asking for clarity for myself it will avoid this happening again and get owner and YM to clarify things between themselves if this needs to happen as well.



I'm don't think I'm a great sharer tbh. I'm not a particularly skilled rider, and I'm not very confident. But I do my best, I take pride in the jobs I do, I offer to make myself useful around the yard for owner and YM, I'm safety conscious, I ask if I'm not sure, and always want to learn more so that I do as good a job for the horses I interact with as I can. I never want to cause anyone stress or let them down. I'm very grateful for the share I have as the owner offered me the support and supervision I needed in the beginning and the YM is always around so its a good set up in many ways for a first share. I think today flagged up a break down in communication and hopefully this can be resolved with everyone happy.

Sounds like a plan, and a lovely positive attitude.

For what it's worth, 2 of my sharers were rather novicey. One needed showing how to halter a horse, let alone saddle and bridle (been riding at a riding school). But, they were thoughtful and reliable, cared for the horses and were therefore worth their weight in gold.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Yeah, especially the ones who live in cities.

I have the 4x4 with winter tyres, though.

Me too but sadly doesnt stop you getting stuck behind the lorries who cant make it up hills or the sliding cars!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Because it's making decisions about their horse's care without involving them? Presumably if I'd make the wrong decision they'd have good reason to be unhappy with me. Where exactly is the line drawn between decisions I can and cannot make as a sharer? How often do yard owners and horse owners conflict on these kinds of decisions let alone bringing sharers in to the mix?

The snow really escalated quite quickly today. When my own road became very quickly covered, I messaged the yard owner to ask how it was at the yard and it wasn't until they replied that they were stuck that I realised how severe it was, at which point I contacted the owner.

I’ve been on both sides of the coin over the years mostly a owner sharer but at times the other way around. I would NEVER expect a sharer to have the same responsibilities as I would as the owner. Having said that I’ve looked after share horses like they were my own and better IMO than the owners.

In these circumstances as the owner I would have been in contact with you as soon as I knew it was going to snow and work something out and I would have taken over if necessary. I’ve part driven then walked to get to my horse before in snow but wouldn’t expect a sharer to do that. I also chose a yard a lot nearer when I last moved as we’d had a lot of snow that year (unusual for here) and some I’d be unlikely to make it.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

As an owner on a day when roads were being closed due to flooding and the police were advising against all but essential travel, I contacted my sharer and encouraged him to switch to a different day.

Later that day the yard flooded (stables were dry and unaffected) and the roads around became rivers.

 

[splashgirl45]

I am not really getting how this works. Because yes it is the owner's choice where the horse is kept, but surely a sharer also has the choice of whether that location is OK for them, and if it is not they can look for another horse. And I am guessing that the owner pays vet bills etc?

I am also wondering what is the general split of costs? Say a horse is worked 6 days a week and a sharer takes 3 of the days the horse works would you expect to just pay 50% of the livery / food / shoeing costs? If so it seems like a great deal, no vets bills or unexpected expenses, owner provides equipment and you can end it with short notice in case of a problem. Or does it work some other way, a longer term commitment that can't be terminated in case the horse is out of action?

what i dont understand with sharing these days, in your scenario of half and half, the sharer has the benefit of riding without the ultimate responsibility, but the owner gets 3 days off a week, doesnt have to pay yard to muck out etc and not only that gets cash in hand, so dont say the owner gets a bad deal....in my youth if pople wanted their horses exercised they paid someone to do it and paid the yard to feed, muck out etc, its so different now i cant get my head round it,,

 

[splashgirl45]

I've asked to clarify on exactly these things. I think it's possible that aspects of the livery agreement are not clear. Which isn't up to me as sharer obviously its not my livery agreement but I think has possibly impacted on the situation today. Hopefully by asking for clarity for myself it will avoid this happening again and get owner and YM to clarify things between themselves if this needs to happen as well.



I'm don't think I'm a great sharer tbh. I'm not a particularly skilled rider, and I'm not very confident. But I do my best, I take pride in the jobs I do, I offer to make myself useful around the yard for owner and YM, I'm safety conscious, I ask if I'm not sure, and always want to learn more so that I do as good a job for the horses I interact with as I can. I never want to cause anyone stress or let them down. I'm very grateful for the share I have as the owner offered me the support and supervision I needed in the beginning and the YM is always around so its a good set up in many ways for a first share. I think today flagged up a break down in communication and hopefully this can be resolved with everyone happy.

i beg to differ, you sound like a great sharer, your owner doesnt sound so great to me. you took responsibility and did the right thing contacting both the YM and the horses owner to sort out what to do. i think he horses owner was in the wrong and should not expect you to break the law so her horse gets mucked out. the owner should have been in contact with the YM and sorted something out, as long as the horse was fed and watered that is all that is required in this sort of situation....these days sharers seem to get the raw end of the deal IMO

 

[teddypops]

what i dont understand with sharing these days, in your scenario of half and half, the sharer has the benefit of riding without the ultimate responsibility, but the owner gets 3 days off a week, doesnt have to pay yard to muck out etc and not only that gets cash in hand, so dont say the owner gets a bad deal....in my youth if pople wanted their horses exercised they paid someone to do it and paid the yard to feed, muck out etc, its so different now i cant get my head round it,,

People still pay professionals if that’s what they want to do. A share is just that, someone sharing your horse. Like owning part time.

 

[splashgirl45]

i wasnt a professional, just someone at the yard who was happy to hack out for them...i still find the whole sharer thimg odd these days..

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Shares do seem to be very different and what works for one may not work for another. Mine pays for B’s shoes and poo picks for me in summer. I don’t expect her to as she has no chores whatsoever but she works from home and enjoys being outside. She can ride him or DP for that matter any time she wants to and we go off to fun rides, clinics and the gallops together. I look after both my horses 365 days a year and pay for everything else and when I needed a day off last September I arranged for next doors YO to look after them.

 

[splashgirl45]

Shares do seem to be very different and what works for one may not work for another. Mine pays for B’s shoes and poo picks for me in summer. I don’t expect her to as she has no chores whatsoever but she works from home and enjoys being outside. She can ride him or DP for that matter any time she wants to and we go off to fun rides, clinics and the gallops together. I look after both my horses 365 days a year and pay for everything else and when I needed a day off last September I arranged for next doors YO to look after them.

that arrangement sounds really good to me, you take responsibility for your horse and dont expect your sharer to and you get a bit of help with shoe money, that all sounds very fair to me and more like what used to happen years ago. some people seem to want to own a horse but arent prepared to do 7 days a week and cant afford to keep the horse without one or two sharers as well...i am too much of a control freak to have ever had a sharer anyway even though the money would have helped,it wouldnt have occurred to me to ask for jobs to be done as well..

 

[shamrock2021]

Awh don’t beat yourself up I bet you’re great sharer. I think the horse owner is taking advantage of you. The owner has the responsibility of the horse not you. I live 5 minutes probably a 15 minutes walk away from the yard I would be killed if I walked to the yard. The road is very dangerous, busy. loads of people have been hit by a car walking on it.

 

[Caol Ila]

Me too but sadly doesnt stop you getting stuck behind the lorries who cant make it up hills or the sliding cars!

Oh, yeah, you have the same car as my OH. But it's true, if other vehicles block the road, your car needs wings.

 

[Winters100]

what i dont understand with sharing these days, in your scenario of half and half, the sharer has the benefit of riding without the ultimate responsibility, but the owner gets 3 days off a week, doesnt have to pay yard to muck out etc and not only that gets cash in hand, so dont say the owner gets a bad deal....in my youth if pople wanted their horses exercised they paid someone to do it and paid the yard to feed, muck out etc, its so different now i cant get my head round it,,

Actually this is also true, we don't really have DIY where I am, so 'doing' the horses is usually checking, exercising, preparing feeds if you want to be sure that supplements go in etc, and if I want the horses ridden when I am not there I generally pay, but of course although the sharer would not have to muck out etc the livery costs are higher than DIY. But still would feel that I was getting a very good deal if I paid 50% livery / food / shoes without any capital investment or risk of vets bills / paying for many years of retirement in case of big injury. Given your point than many are on DIY it actually sounds like rather a good arrangement for both if it works.

 

[Wishfilly]

I am not really getting how this works. Because yes it is the owner's choice where the horse is kept, but surely a sharer also has the choice of whether that location is OK for them, and if it is not they can look for another horse. And I am guessing that the owner pays vet bills etc?

I am also wondering what is the general split of costs? Say a horse is worked 6 days a week and a sharer takes 3 of the days the horse works would you expect to just pay 50% of the livery / food / shoeing costs? If so it seems like a great deal, no vets bills or unexpected expenses, owner provides equipment and you can end it with short notice in case of a problem. Or does it work some other way, a longer term commitment that can't be terminated in case the horse is out of action?

No, sharers pay considerably less than 50% of full costs in my experience. Most sharers will pay about £10 a day- obviously this does vary. Some don't pay at all, and just work in return for the riding, but this is getting rarer.

In many ways, sharing is a great deal- but part of that deal is that the owner has ultimate responsibility for the horse at all times- particularly, when, like OP the sharer is a novice. Part of the deal is that sharers don't really have any rights to make a decision such as e.g. leaving the horse out because nobody can get to the yard to safely bring it in.

A sharer is not like a part owner, they are more like help, and in many ways the relationship is weighted towards the owner. There are not loads and loads of shares out there, so some sharers do have to take shares in locations that wouldn't be their first choice.

Why would you "be slated" for taking responsibility for sorting out your share horse? Why does the owner need to make a decision? All you should have done was make sure that on a day YOU took responsibility for looking after their horse you made a decision. Alternatively, why didn't you contact the owner earlier to say you couldn't make it to the yard?
You took on an agreement to do basic day to day jobs on agreed days. Part of that responsibility is to make sure that those jobs are done.
Sorry I have a different view to you, but in my opinion part of having a share horse is to see if you are ready to have your own horse, and to do that, you have to be ready to make sure they are looked after on daily basic chores

If a sharer made the decision on a snow day for a horse to be brought into a stable that hadn't been mucked out (or alternatively left out all night with access to hay when usually they are brought in), I think most owners would be really, really unhappy with that. Like, to the point where they would end the share in some cases.

People don't only share because they want to see if they are ready to have a horse- a lot share because they don't want the full hassle of owning, and part of that is not putting themselves at risk to get to the yard when it is dangerous to do so.

An owner can't expect to offload their horse entirely onto a sharer on their share days and not even be contacted.

 

[Kaylum]

If I was a YM and had a stable full of horses and I could get there when others couldnt and they were telling me that. I would check what they need feeding and hay them and water. Give them a quick skip out throw some bedding in. As I have done many times before for people who are on DIY with me on the same yard.

But as a horse owner you would make contingency plans, make sure the horse's breakfast is ready for the next day, haynet or whatever is needed if you even begin to think the weather is going to be bad.

 

[Winters100]

If a sharer made the decision on a snow day for a horse to be brought into a stable that hadn't been mucked out (or alternatively left out all night with access to hay when usually they are brought in), I think most owners would be really, really unhappy with that. Like, to the point where they would end the share in some cases.

This is a really good point, I am very confident making decisions for my own horses / dogs / children, but if they are not mine I am much more cautious. To me it would not be a massive problem if my horses were just skipped out and fed / watered for one day, but I would not be confident to make that decision for someone else's horse. Likewise some might feel that they would prefer the horses to be given hay and left out, but I would be quite unhappy with that option. No right or wrong of it, either way horses would still be alive in the morning, it is just my preference. I would say though that had I promised to do someone else's horse it would have to be a real problem to stop me - if I had to walk an couple of hours to get there I would do that unless they had told me that it was really unnecessary. Most people walk an average of 3 or 4 miles an hour I think, and I would imagine most yards have passable roads within 6 to 8 miles.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Most people walk an average of 3 or 4 miles an hour I think, and I would imagine most yards have passable roads within 6 to 8 miles.

Not over snow and ice, they don’t. That slows you right up.

The last thing anyone needs atm is a load of folk rocking up in A&E with broken bones sustained on unnecessary route marches over ice.

 

[Winters100]

Not over snow and ice, they don’t. That slows you right up.

The last thing anyone needs atm is a load of folk rocking up in A&E with broken bones sustained on unnecessary route marches over ice.

Also a good point.