HHO's "Bear" project pony...

[Bellaboo18]

I would say that a horse has to know how to give to pressure before a standing martingale can be used safely.

No idea if this horse does or doesn't understand pressure & release but based solely on posts and photos he resists against it.

Meeting the end of a standing martingale without having the education (or respect) to deal with it could result in a messy panic.

I'd want to go back and work on basic foundations and the result of that is more than likely that a martingale would no longer be required.

Nothing against the martingale, it works, but to ask a question without having trained the answer could end badly especially if this horse is nervous and overreactive in certain situations

Completely agree, I would be wary of using a standing martingale at this point.

 

[TPO]

I’m aware, hence the bridle etc now being deployed. I promise I’m not silly enough to not think it needs nipping in the bud- it’s early days- it’ll get squashed ? thanks for the advice! X

Apparently I can't keep my opinions to myself today ?

I wouldn't be quick to bridle because mouth.

I'd want to do the work that stopped the pulling back, let alone taking off, before just catching and putting a bridle on.

The circle work will also making catching easier because when you can move quarters just by pointing at them horse turns into you and learns to.stand (right thing easy).

I had a horse who once took well over 5hrs to catch and there was one day she just got left out alone for over 15hrs because she wouldn't be caught and everyone else came in. Done one day of Richard Maxwell circle work and never had an issue again.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

You own my P.R.E. gelding in Connemara pony version.

I've had this, erm, "quirky" guy for about 3 years now and while he is well behaved he is WEIRD. I never knew a horse could be hot, lazy, spooky, and curious all in the same moment. He's highly intelligent, and plays dumb, I swear! He's spooked at his own poo before, shadows... picked up a whip, dropped it, then spooked at it, I could go on! This is the same horse that acted like he'd never been mounted the first time I tried to ride him when he came from Spain (with basic training and some mileage on him). I had to treat him like an unbroken colt at first *eye roll* He's a cool cucumber about a lot of things that rattle other horses, oddly enough.

So it is a balance between rolling my eyes, ignoring, reassuring, and kicking his arse. He's taught me a lot and makes me use my head. I cannot muscle him around or use force, it is a mental game. Sometimes a who can outlast who. He gives up rather quickly most of the time (due to being lazy), but still has to give it a go once in awhile! Just to test. He never wins, so I don't get it. There are times when I do have to be harsh with him, and he takes it, because I think he knows its firm but fair.

This horse decided he only wanted to move backward one day. So I said ok, and we backed all the way around the school, twice. It was no longer his idea, therefore it was no longer fun and he gladly went forward.

It's really an...art? of sorts as you have to be firm, set the boundaries, but not get them worked up and bothered in the process. I've had to do something thinking outside of the box. There are some that when it is time to work, it is time to spook...because that gets them out of work. Quick correction, ignore antics, move along. Remain calm...someone has to!

It's early days and you have your work cut out for you. I'd even be tempted to carry a dressage whip with me while leading. Encouragement if he doesn't walk forward with you. Don't be afraid to go back to basics. Grab a rope halter and longer lead as another poster mentioned. Do some basic yielding to pressure. Or teach things on the ground such as shoulder in or side pass. Get him thinking and begin taking control of his body and where his feet go.

I also did some clicker training with my guy, and he really caught on to that.

But there are some horses that you have to get on and just get crackin' - as in they cannot have a moment of down time because they begin plotting so they have to be moving forward and put to work. Once you establish a proper "I am the boss" relationship, he may change his tune. Mine was gelded late (Idk if that has an influence though) and is dominant, therefore my leadership skills have to be on point, otherwise he could challenge them.

Give it some time and work, and I think you'll come out fine.

 

[Mule]

You could use a running martingale. You don't have the panicking issue and they cop on not to get giraffe-like very quickly because of the bit pressure.

 

[Michen]

Well Bear would like to thank you all for ruining his Sunday evening.

so I did do plenty of leading and moving over work when he was at the schooling yard. He’s really responsive and will move over back forward yield to the lightest pressure. So when he didn’t go in the wash box the first time I did think fair enough, it smells weird looks weird and boggle lost his shit when he went in there after a lesson once.

armed with an easy loader as it’s the only pressure type thing I have atm, a sort of pulley that clips through the nose I went in hand in the school. Super polite as expected. I can have his nose on the floor through gentle pressure, he obviously gets it.

Until you up what you ask him. So backing up he on one occasion got a bit frustrated and that was the trigger, pulled back and tried to bugger off. Except this time I was fully prepared. He repeated this at least twice but failed each time. Didn’t try it again whatever pressure I put on him.

He learns so quick, I hope that may be the end of it but can’t take the chance, the bridle was for the yard to bring him in with whilst I get my hands on a pressure halter of some sort or continue with the easy loader. I’m pretty sure this can be nipped in the bud.

Did mounting block work at all he end too. Stands perfectly, including with me lying across him etc.

On the flip side I’m typing this as I in hand walk my hot buzzball Boggle.. whose doing a great job of being “ the grown up “ one

 

[CanteringCarrot]

A horse that learns quick is both a blessing and a curse

 

[Michen]

You own my P.R.E. gelding in Connemara pony version.

I've had this, erm, "quirky" guy for about 3 years now and while he is well behaved he is WEIRD. I never knew a horse could be hot, lazy, spooky, and curious all in the same moment. He's highly intelligent, and plays dumb, I swear! He's spooked at his own poo before, shadows... picked up a whip, dropped it, then spooked at it, I could go on! This is the same horse that acted like he'd never been mounted the first time I tried to ride him when he came from Spain (with basic training and some mileage on him). I had to treat him like an unbroken colt at first *eye roll* He's a cool cucumber about a lot of things that rattle other horses, oddly enough.

So it is a balance between rolling my eyes, ignoring, reassuring, and kicking his arse. He's taught me a lot and makes me use my head. I cannot muscle him around or use force, it is a mental game. Sometimes a who can outlast who. He gives up rather quickly most of the time (due to being lazy), but still has to give it a go once in awhile! Just to test. He never wins, so I don't get it. There are times when I do have to be harsh with him, and he takes it, because I think he knows its firm but fair.

This horse decided he only wanted to move backward one day. So I said ok, and we backed all the way around the school, twice. It was no longer his idea, therefore it was no longer fun and he gladly went forward.

It's really an...art? of sorts as you have to be firm, set the boundaries, but not get them worked up and bothered in the process. I've had to do something thinking outside of the box. There are some that when it is time to work, it is time to spook...because that gets them out of work. Quick correction, ignore antics, move along. Remain calm...someone has to!

It's early days and you have your work cut out for you. I'd even be tempted to carry a dressage whip with me while leading. Encouragement if he doesn't walk forward with you. Don't be afraid to go back to basics. Grab a rope halter and longer lead as another poster mentioned. Do some basic yielding to pressure. Or teach things on the ground such as shoulder in or side pass. Get him thinking and begin taking control of his body and where his feet go.

I also did some clicker training with my guy, and he really caught on to that.

But there are some horses that you have to get on and just get crackin' - as in they cannot have a moment of down time because they begin plotting so they have to be moving forward and put to work. Once you establish a proper "I am the boss" relationship, he may change his tune. Mine was gelded late (Idk if that has an influence though) and is dominant, therefore my leadership skills have to be on point, otherwise he could challenge them.

Give it some time and work, and I think you'll come out fine.

Ha! This was super helpful thank you. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

 

[Michen]

Good Bear, remembered his mounting block lesson perfectly. No flinching and fine to get on and off just had a quiet potter around the school on my own. Praying he didn’t pop!! Felt much more comfortable today.

 

[Trouper]

Michen - how many thousands of thoughts have been racing through your mind about this boy since you first saw him? You know why you bought him and why he travelled to you and what you are asking him to do now. He is just a baby who is trying to figure out all the changes that have been happening - and although he seems very affectionate, deep down he does not know yet that he can absolutely trust you - so his thoughts must be whirling too. I would always insist gently on good manners on the ground but I would work on the trust issue much more in these early days - even if it meant doing the same very basic things over and over again and not trying to progress his "work" too fast. Don't know if you have seen any of James French's Trust Technique stuff but it is fascinating what can be achieved just by being close and quiet next to a horse. He seems such a lovely boy from what you tell us of him so I am sure things will all come good - but you don't get these first days again so they are so precious.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I used a running martingale quite early on with my Arab as I felt his head would just get too high, and because he was young and didn't really understand a proper contact it became a handy thing to have, I still use them on both of mine and they are 15 and 16 especially on a hack I just feel more in control so why not.

 

[KEK]

Thank you for continuing to detail how it actually is, not just the "oh he's cute", it's so interesting, and very timely for me! I hope you keep going

 

[Michen]

Thank you for continuing to detail how it actually is, not just the "oh he's cute", it's so interesting, and very timely for me! I hope you keep going

Thanks! The problem is of course you get snapshots of decisions etc on here so it becomes a bit of an endless justification on why you did x in this situation and y in this, but I find people's advice and thoughts really useful so worth gathering them!

And of course the total opposite recommendations makes things interesting as well

If I'd have posted about Boggle in the first year I had him it would have just been a sentence of swear words and crying faces....

 

[SEL]

My mare used to p-off being led in from the field when she wanted to be elsewhere. Couldn't use a long rope because if you lost her head then she would quite happily kick you to get away. Lovely behaviour.

Used a bridle for quite some time and even now I'll go back to it if she's being tricky. Tends to coincide with flirting

I think the one time I did post about that sort of behaviour I was flooded with lots of people telling me that I shouldn't let her do that and they'd never let their horse do that. I remember reading them thinking "well, yes, obviously this is not ideal behaviour. Thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious!"

Looking forward to seeing how Bear progresses. Nice to see the true story and not just edited highlights!!

 

[eggs]

One of mine whom I have had since a foal is an old fashioned Dutch wb with mahoosive neck and shoulders. He is always excellent to catch but if you bring him in at a non 'normal' time he will walk with you so far to the gate and then just set his neck and p155 off back to his mates. His ears would always flick just before he bogged off but at 16.2 and built like the proverbial there was no holding even with a chain over his nose. The only solution is to catch him and bridle him and run the long line from the offside bit ring, over the top of his head and back through the near side bit ring. The first time I did this he tried to bog off twice and then realised he couldn't get away from me. The next time he tried it once and then time after that he didn't try at all. This was about six years ago but still if he is caught in out of his normal routine the bridle goes on. Yes, in an ideal world I wouldn't want to have to do it this way but he is a very clever horse and I am sure would revert back to rudeness if he just had a headcollar on. He does just wear his headcollar to turn him at all times and to catch him in at all other times.

I had another youngster who would plant (he is quite a scaredy cat) and the trick with him was to get his front feet moving by almost 'swinging' him from side to side.

Good luck with Bear, he certainly does look to be a cracker.

 

[Michen]

My mare used to p-off being led in from the field when she wanted to be elsewhere. Couldn't use a long rope because if you lost her head then she would quite happily kick you to get away. Lovely behaviour.

Used a bridle for quite some time and even now I'll go back to it if she's being tricky. Tends to coincide with flirting

I think the one time I did post about that sort of behaviour I was flooded with lots of people telling me that I shouldn't let her do that and they'd never let their horse do that. I remember reading them thinking "well, yes, obviously this is not ideal behaviour. Thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious!"

Looking forward to seeing how Bear progresses. Nice to see the true story and not just edited highlights!!

Ha yes indeed! We all have our own versions of what's acceptable and what's not. I'm sure there are little things about Boggle that would horrify some, but he is safe, consistent, reliable in every single way. IMO that is more important than anything else.

One of mine whom I have had since a foal is an old fashioned Dutch wb with mahoosive neck and shoulders. He is always excellent to catch but if you bring him in at a non 'normal' time he will walk with you so far to the gate and then just set his neck and p155 off back to his mates. His ears would always flick just before he bogged off but at 16.2 and built like there was no holding even with a chain over his nose. The only solution is to catch him and bridle him and run the long line from the offside bit ring, over the top of his head and back through the near side bit ring. The first time I did this he tried to bog off twice and then realised he couldn't get away from me. The next time he tried it once and then time after that he didn't try at all. This was about six years ago but still if he is caught in out of his normal routine the bridle goes on. Yes, in an ideal world I wouldn't want to have to do it this way but he is a very clever horse and I am sure would revert back to rudeness if he just had a headcollar on. He does just wear his headcollar to turn him at all times and to catch him in at all other times.

I had another youngster who would plant (he is quite a scaredy cat) and the trick with him was to get his front feet moving by almost 'swinging' him from side to side.

Good luck with Bear, he certainly does look to be a cracker.

I can certainly see Bear spending his young years in a pressure head collar just in case, he's clearly a total opportunist

 

[Michen]

Ha well apparently he thought about it carefully when coming in today and then made the right decision... well done Bear on everything today

 

[Michen]

A few bits of light relief. Bear not respecting his elders (grabbing Bog by the throat, who really has mellowed to just shriek about it but barely act). Bog then realising he can stop the unwanted behaviour by restraining Bear with his lead rope (no they were not left together unattended even for a second!!)

I wasn’t going to do anything with Bear as feeling super unmotivated. Can’t really justify hacking a baby horse with current situation, but kicked myself up the arse and long reined and felt much better for it. He was fab. Intend to have his shoes off this week though, his feet are just appalling and the thrush is so bad- I’m using sole cleanse and artimud but think I need farrier to cut away some of the flappy bits. Am a bit cautious to remove shoes in case he’s sore as the long track around big field for hacking was very poached and is now dry and very rutty, but think it’ll be the best way to sort those feet out.. thoughts? The heels are so contracted and he’s only been shod since December... I don’t understand how they can get that bad with so little shoeing.

 

[DabDab]

Those feet do look like they are dying to get out of shoes....

I find the different responses interesting too. I know I'm quite relaxed about youngsters in general compared to other people. Just because of the type of equine life I've had I suppose, I've seen so many random behaviours that I struggle to get concerned by much. I just work on the basis that stuff will happen and you deal with it instinctively in the moment and tend to know if you haven't dealt with it completely in the moment and then just work up a plan to readdress it (that's an appallingly written sentence, sorry!). Everything gets straightened out in the end with young-uns. The horses that end up in a bit of a pickle tend to either have owners who don't notice there is a problem, or act disproportionately to the problem (either over the top correction or by becoming terrified of the horse), or where there is an underlying physical problem.

 

[KEK]

No idea about feet but would love to know how you get their manes so shiny ?

 

[Michen]

Those feet do look like they are dying to get out of shoes....

I find the different responses interesting too. I know I'm quite relaxed about youngsters in general compared to other people. Just because of the type of equine life I've had I suppose, I've seen so many random behaviours that I struggle to get concerned by much. I just work on the basis that stuff will happen and you deal with it instinctively in the moment and tend to know if you haven't dealt with it completely in the moment and then just work up a plan to readdress it (that's an appallingly written sentence, sorry!). Everything gets straightened out in the end with young-uns. The horses that end up in a bit of a pickle tend to either have owners who don't notice there is a problem, or act disproportionately to the problem (either over the top correction or by becoming terrified of the horse), or where there is an underlying physical problem.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Bog will educate Bear on what's what anyway and I won't have to do a thing

 

[ycbm]

Those feet ? years of neglect there!

.

 

[Michen]

Those feet ? years of neglect there!

.

Yup they are hurting my eyes. I'm just not sure how they got so bad even if they weren't trimmed, with such limited shoeing.

 

[Michen]

No idea about feet but would love to know how you get their manes so shiny ?

Just healthy horses!

 

[DabDab]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Bog will educate Bear on what's what anyway and I won't have to do a thing

#trainingsupremo

 

[paddy555]

for the frog copper sulphate. Dissolve it and use the brush on a hoof pick to scrub the grooves and the central sulchus. Really deep in the sulchus and repeat every other day or so. Far more effective than many other treatments.

 

[ycbm]

Yup they are hurting my eyes. I'm just not sure how they got so bad even if they weren't trimmed, with such limited shoeing.

I am guessing that he is a horse who, if not trimmed, grows tin can feet instead of spread ones. And that he probably wasn't trimmed since he was a foal.

Don't expect a quick result, my experience is that contraction is much slower to fix than flare. But also that they barefoot much easier.

 

[SpringArising]

I think taking the shoes off is a great idea - it's the first thing I would have done. I would also prefer to see a slightly bigger shoe to offload some of the weight from the heel if you do decide to keep them on.

 

[ElleSkywalker]

Love Bog chastising Bear with his leadrope. Clever Bog. I think Bog thinks you have bought Bear purely for him to boss ?

 

[PurBee]

I’d be surprised if he were sore barefoot, judging by how sunken into the sole the frog is, looks like he’s got a nice depth of sole to start barefoot, despite the shape of the overall foot being dodgy.
The soreness more likely will come from the frog, being thrushy, (copper sulphate is fab) than from the usual issue of thin soles. Cop.sulp. Dries up a frog aswell as kills nasties ime. The long reining ground sounds ideal to work the frog without causing undue pressure.

 

[Michen]

Love Bog chastising Bear with his leadrope. Clever Bog. I think Bog thinks you have bought Bear purely for him to boss ?

I think he thinks so too but I’m impressed instead of rising to Bears goading he’s coming to with new ways to control his new play thing.