HHO's "Bear" project pony...

[Jeni the dragon]

I'm loving these updates too! The boys are both so handsome it's lovely to hear how things are going with them!

 

[J&S]

Keep going! We want to see you riding him. x

 

[Michen]

Bog really is a tit. Thought it would be nice he can have some social interaction with another horse, let alone his brother. All he does is terrorise poor sweet Bear, here he is holding his forelock in his mouth ?

Giving me a laugh in dark times anyway I could watch them all day?

 

[McFluff]

Haha definitely keep going. It’s a great distraction. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Evie91]

Brilliant, friendly chaps aren’t they! Might be lots of ripped rugs when they’re turned out together, look like typical playful geldings!

 

[Evie91]

Think Bear’s pen looks fab, roomier than a lot of stables!

 

[Michen]

Brilliant, friendly chaps aren’t they! Might be lots of ripped rugs when they’re turned out together, look like typical playful geldings!

I have never managed to successfully turn Bog out with anyone. He’s just an absolute menace and not suited to pairs or threes, needs a big herd to run with which he will get this year! He was cut late and is just.. Boggle ? I hate individual turnout but have had to resign myself to it with him. Might try with with Bear though. Last attempt was last summer, maybe two years or so later he will have mellowed further

 

[Evie91]

He might have finally found a friend

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Loving the updates too.
Boggles is such a diva ???❤❤❤

 

[Bernster]

I was going to say, less squealing this time, then bog did a big un. Cute interaction,

 

[Michen]

Guess we like cows then..

 

[Trouper]

BogBear - love it!!

 

[southerncomfort]

Looks like the start of a beautiful bromance!

 

[Michen]

Well I’ve got on board! Gently and quietly in the school. Had originally planned to do that then hack out with company but was clear we’ve got to go back a bunch of steps first. It didn’t start well as I went to get him in the field. Originally he didn’t want to catch, then came trotting up all of a sudden to let me get him. Then out of no where, three separate times pulled back and p***** off across the field. I think it is a mixture of a) not wanting to walk through the flood he has to go to get in and out of field although he was perfect with it on long reins yesterday and quick when turning out this am to make the decision to go in and b) napping to his new mare friend.

I’m not sure what to make of him really, got on with a helper as needed it for mounting block and general reassurance for him, he’s still a bit flinchy and nervy if you do anything too quick but his eye is so quick to then soften it’s just a little odd. Did it in stages again as if he was barely backed. Wobbly being led around then picked up confidence and felt fine.he has a huge loose swingy walk! Walking around on our own nicely, relaxed etc. Until.. he did a poo and scared the hell out of himself!!! I assume from it dropping on the floor, he clamped his tail and shot off at a rapid canter and I have to say I did wonder whether it was going to become full on and escalate. Managed to pull him up after about half the long side of the school and then half of a 20 m circle...

Hmmmm. His head was way up in the air so the bit was doing sod all and he is immensely strong. I didn’t have a martingale on as I’m not keen on using them on youngsters but perhaps in this case..

I have to say, and I’ll be honest as this thread should be that and not just “oh isn’t he so cute”, I don’t like this go to default of his when he doesn’t like something. I really hope it would never escalate into something worse so I’m going to have to be very very careful that I don’t put myself in that situation. He really is going to be a project, and that’s fine- I hope he will be worth it- I’ll just need to get it right and build his confidence up bit by bit. I was really pleased with how he reacted to things out on the long reins yesterday, he saw a fair bit of “life” and his reactions when he was unsure was to pause, assess and then make the (correct every time) decision to carefully continue even if it worried him a bit with very little needed from me So I am taking the positives from that and hope I can up the ridden confidence to match the long reining.

Any thoughts or bright ideas gratefully received. Re the catching and pulling away he will be bridle and lunge line lead from now on, I don’t want to risk him learning that behaviour I’m annoyed it happened at all today. My plan for the next week or so is continue a mix of gentle riding in school (lots of work getting on and off with mounting block, desensitising etc combined with long reining him out on hacks.

he is going to be every bit as challenging as Bog, in a different way I think!

 

[SpringArising]

If he were mine I'd stop treating him like a nervous baby and start treating him like a horse who needs REALLY consistent boundaries. He's already doing little things here and there because he knows he can get away with it. I wouldn't even let him eat grass when you long line him. When he's working he should be in work mode - it'll make him feel like he has a job to do which will settle him. Do you want him to snatch at grass when you ride him? If no then I'd start as you mean to go on. If my horse has a bit in his mouth that means he's working and not eating.

I often find the more you treat them like a scared little goose the more they act like one.

Being bossy with horses doesn't come naturally to me (well, with my own it doesn't because they're MY babies ) but I think especially with Connies they need to know from day dot they can't get away with anything.

I'd also spend some time teaching him to get himself to the mounting block for you - have a look at Richard Maxwell's video:

 

[Pinkvboots]

I really wouldn't worry about the fact his nervous response when ridden is to run, it's so early days.

I backed my Arab my self many years ago he was very much the same in the first few months, he would do the wall of death round the school in response to things that worried him, I can honestly say he only really properly took off 3 times and I could pin point what triggered it every time, once he was riding out hacking alone and working in the school happily he never did it again, he still spooks and he will surge off sometimes but it's literally a few quick strides and he stops.

 

[Michen]

SA, I am the least washy person when it comes to horses. Honestly- I’m not a total numpty going there there Bear have some grass and please be a good boy. But there is no point in not treating him carefully with the ridden stuff (I am not referring to the long reining I don’t think there’s any issue with it frankly for a quick second- he was foot perfect the entire time and I needed to take off a jacket and put off it around my waste, So also took a quick video and then got back to it. Doing so is not an issue IMO and I’m glad he was relaxed enough to chill out for a minute whilst I faffed).

If I had simply swung a leg over today and cracked on I can’t guarantee there wouldn’t have been a meltdown and I’ve no way at the moment of knowing how far that would go. That’s the last thing I want.

He IS cheeky and needs boundaries I completely agree particularly with basics on the ground. However I can’t fault him for positive learning too. Day one he napped massively on long reins about the flood. He got a fairly decent whack forward with the long reins and day two went straight in when in his work environment- he learns, and quickly. That will work both ways- hence why a bridle will now be used to ensure no repeat of bringing in today. But equally he is also still nervous in certain situations. It would do more harm to do too much too soon than the other way around. He’s just moved house (again), his world has changed (again) and I genuinely do think I have to approach him with some sensitivity in certain situations.

I do not think he’s “taking the piss” with his nerves re ridden when they appear, though there is plenty that does need firm handling In other areas.

As I said, he will absolutely be learning re mounting block. That’s what most of today ended up being about.

I really wouldn't worry about the fact his nervous response when ridden is to run, it's so early days.

I backed my Arab my self many years ago he was very much the same in the first few months, he would do the wall of death round the school in response to things that worried him, I can honestly say he only really properly took off 3 times and I could pin point what triggered it every time, once he was riding out hacking alone and working in the school happily he never did it again, he still spooks and he will surge off sometimes but it's literally a few quick strides and he stops.

Helpful thank you! Fingers crossed.

 

[DabDab]

Like PvB I wouldn't be overly concerned, I'm sure he'll settle. Pebbles (my connie) was one hell of a flight risk when I first had her, but these days she's rock solid, I can't remember the last time I saw her spook at anything. And the singular naughty thing Arty has ever done under saddle was fire off about a month in. I jumped off and one rein stopped her in the process just short of the fence that I am pretty sure she would have crashed into. She's never shot off like that since.

 

[TPO]

I think (disclaimer: my opinion is just that, my opinion and I wouldn't attach much value to it) you need to stop and go back to work on all the gaps.

The pulling back and refusing to lead was always going to get to where it's at. That needs to be addressed.

A horse that isnt 100% to lead, move over and respond to the handler is one that either doesn't understand pressure or doesn't respect it. That's not a horse I'd be getting on board.

Then to have caught a horse that's "on one" I'd have adjusted the plan and worked on what needed worked on and/or got some "easy" wins to put pebbles in the confidence jar.

To carry on with an original plan when all the ducks arent in a row ends up how things ended up. Hence the going back and building on a solid foundation.

I'm pretty much just going to regurgitate what I've learnt from others and/or the hard way with my own trial and (many, many) errors.

The current thoughts from a trainer (Warwick Schiller) that are resonating with me are:

Don't ask the question before you've given them the answer

Donkey Kong concept (video games): when you hit a bump it's back to the very start and start over from scratch

Create a tool before you use a tool


To teach a horse to lead to I'd use a rope halter and 12ft line (lead ropes too short and lunge lines too long). Then do circle work to get him responding and yielding to pressure. It's worked for me teaching leading and for horses that have always been pulled/dragged along and used planting ad an evasion.

Any attempt by me to describe it would probably miss the mark but Richard Maxwell does it very well. He has a video library online so I'm sure there will be videos of this as it's the start point for everything that he does.

I also highly recommend three of his books:
Training Your Young Horse
Maximise Your Horsemanship
Unlock Your Horse's Talent in 20mins a Day

Specifically in Maximise Your Horsemanship there are pyramids showing building blocks alongside checklists that would be helpful.

I can't remember exactly if the following is in Max's books but I'm sure that it is and that's yielding their head to pressure. Working to make the horse flex to the lightest of pressure so that, on the ground, the horse will being his nose around to shoulder in each side and down to touch chest (as a yield/flex not rolkur). Once a horse responds to that on the ground it is used as a "check" as soon as you are on board. Kind of like checking your mirrors etc when you get into a new car.

Once you have that bend you have "bend to a stop"/one rein stop which would prevent/stop quickly what happened today. WS refers to it as "bending for relaxation" (S2 episode 9- randomly just came on right now).

Going off on a tangent but having seen him in person I was not a fan of Warwick Schiller. For possibly a multitude of reasons WS changed his ways of working and training processes and I find his new ways much more agreeable (this is my personal opinion only).

He has a website and there is quite a lot of information on it that I think is very useful. There is also a poster of his Principles of Training that include those I mentioned above. I find that they resonate for horse training.

WS has a subscription service for his training videos but there are also lots of videos on youtube and on H&C tv (via amazon prime). Personally having some sort of checklist so that I know all bases are covered before moving on is helpful.

I recorded the WS Principles of Training before H&C left Sky (started recording last August ?) and I'm binge watching them before my Sky package cancels at the end of the month. There is a LOT of good stuff in them (no one more surprised than me as I was determined not to like him after what I saw in the flesh but everyone is allowed to learn and change).

Maybe reading some Mark Rashid might help too as via his stories he helps the reader see things from the horse's POV and that might help with why Bear does what he does and why he reacts in certain ways.

So in summary I'd go back to the very beginning and make sure I'm building on a solid foundation.

Anything that pops up gets dealt with there and then and not allowed to escalate. It's often that when something seemingly unrelated is worked on it fixes a lot of other things.

 

[Michen]

Thanks for the video. Interesting though, as essentially teaching the horse to move in to the pressure rather than away? Feels a bit opposite..

 

[TPO]

Thanks for the video. Interesting though, as essentially teaching the horse to move in to the pressure rather than away? Feels a bit opposite..

It's not so much moving into pressure as doing what it takes to stop the "irritant"(tapping whip/clicking etc). Horse learns the response that X stops when they step over. It's the old "make the right thing easy".

 

[Michen]

I think (disclaimer: my opinion is just that, my opinion and I woulsnt attach much value to it) you need to stop and go back to work on all the gaps.

The pulling back and refusing to lead was always going to get to where it's at. That needs to be addressed.

A horse that isnt 100% to lead, move over and respond to the handler is one that either doesn't understand pressure or doesn't respect it. That's not a horse I'd be getting on board.

Then to have caught a horse that's "on one" I'd have adjusted the plan and worked in what needed worked on and/or got some "easy" wins to put pebbles in the confidence jar.

To carry on with an original plan when all the ducks arent in a row ends up how things ended up. Hence the going back and building on a solid foundation.

I'm pretty much just going to regurgitate what I've learnt from others and/or the hard way with my own trial and (many, many) errors.

The current thoughts from a trainer (Warwick Schiller) that are resonating with me are:

Don't ask the question before you've given them the answer

Donkey Kong concept (video games): when you hit a bump it's back to the very start and start over from scratch

Create a tool before you use a tool


To teach a horse to lead to I'd use a rope halter and 12ft line (lead ropes too short and lunge lines too long). Then do circle work to get him responding and yielding to pressure. It's worked for me teaching leading and for horses that have always been pulled/dragged along and used planting ad an evasion.

Any attempt by me to describe it would probably miss the mark but Richard Maxwell does it very well. He has a video library online so I'm sure there will be videos of this as it's the start point for everything that he does.

I also highly recommend three of his books:
Training Your Young Horse
Maximise Your Horsemanship
Unlock Your Horse's Talent in 20mins a Day

Specifically in Maximise Your Horsemanship there are ppyramids showing building blocks alongside checklists that would be helpful.

I can't remember exactly if the following is in Max's books but I'm sure that it is and that's yielding their head to pressure. Working to make the horse flex to the lightest of pressure so that, on the ground, the horse will being his nose around to shoulder in each side and down to touch chest (as a yield/flex not rolkur). Once a horse responds to that on the ground it is used as a "check" as soon as you are on board. Kind of like checking your mirrors etc when you get into a new car.

Once you have that bend you have "bend to a stop"/one rein stop which would prevent/stop quickly what happened today. WS refers to it as "bending for relaxation" (S2 episode 9- randomly just came on right now).

Going off on a tangent but having seen him in person I was not a fan of Warwick Schiller. For possibly a multitude of reasons WS changed his ways of working and training processes and in find his new ways much more agreeable (this is my personal opinion only).

He has a website and there is quite a lot of information on it that I think is very useful. There is also a poster of his Principles of Training that include those I mentioned above. I find that they resonate for horse training.

WS has a subscription service for his training videos but there are also lots of videos on youtube and on H&C tv (via amazon prime). Perosnally having some sort of checklist so that I know all bases are covered before moving on is helpful.

I recorded the WS Principles of Training before H&C left Sky (started recording last August ?) and I'm binge watching them before my Sky package cancels at the end of the month. There is a LOT of good stuff in them (no one more surprised than me as I was determined not to like him after what I saw in the flesh but everyone is allowed to learn and change).

Maybe reading some Mark Rashid might help too as via his stories he helps the reader see things from the horse's POV and that might help with why Bear does what he does and why he reacts in certain ways.

So in summary I'd go back to the very beginning and make sure I'm building on a solid foundation.

Anything that pops up gets dealt with there and then and not allowed to escalate. It's often that when something seemingly unrelated is worked on it fixes a lot of other things.

Thanks! I shall have a proper look. He’s super polite to move around you etc until he’s not, and it definitely needs addressing.

FYI I agree. It was the same principal with Boggle travelling

 

[ihatework]

I’m not going to write a long spiel about how to go about this because it’s almost impossible over the internet to fully understand what is going wrong without seeing the subtle things.

But I do have two words of advice

Standing martingale

 

[Michen]

I’m not going to write a long spiel about how to go about this because it’s almost impossible over the internet to fully understand what is going wrong without seeing the subtle things.

But I do have two words of advice

Standing martingale

Thought about it. Have one.. worried it could cause a panic?

 

[ihatework]

Thought about it. Have one.. worried it could cause a panic?

What more than inverting and running into something? You are overthinking - it’s an essential bit of kit for newly broken horses IMO

 

[SpringArising]

FWIW, I don't think you're a numpty and I hope my post didn't come across like I was trying to offend you.

I was just trying to convey that there's been a few small things that have already escalated into bigger things - i.e the video that was taken of him not walking out the stable has now turned into him pulling back and pissing off in the field.

 

[Michen]

FWIW, I don't think you're a numpty and I hope my post didn't come across like I was trying to offend you.

I was just trying to convey that there's been a few small things that have already escalated into bigger things - i.e the video that was taken of him not walking out the stable has now turned into him pulling back and pissing off in the field.

I’m aware, hence the bridle etc now being deployed. I promise I’m not silly enough to not think it needs nipping in the bud- it’s early days- it’ll get squashed ? thanks for the advice! X

 

[suebou]

We always use a standing martingale on young/projects. Fairly long, but there’s no rein pressure, just the nose and it has saved many awkward ‘oh, I’ll throw my head up/about till you back off’ highly recommend one. He’s a fab looking boy, what fun you will have!

 

[TPO]

I would say that a horse has to know how to give to pressure before a standing martingale can be used safely.

No idea if this horse does or doesn't understand pressure & release but based solely on posts and photos he resists against it.

Meeting the end of a standing martingale without having the education (or respect) to deal with it could result in a messy panic.

I'd want to go back and work on basic foundations and the result of that is more than likely that a martingale would no longer be required.

Nothing against the martingale, it works, but to ask a question without having trained the answer could end badly especially if this horse is nervous and overreactive in certain situations

 

[palo1]

If it is of any interest my young mare who arrived age rising 3 last year had no clue how to lead or tie up and would either plant or try to piss off when being led away from others (of course - why wouldn't she?!). The best tool we have and one we always use is a halter with a long (12 foot line). If they get a little away from you, you still have rope and therefore time to correct them and you can get out of the immediate way if they start performing but without you losing contact. I am sure you know and practice all this but the first lessons in hand we give our horses are about walking at our pace without any tension in the rope. It doesn't matter how quickly or slowly you are going, where you are going or why, they MUST learn to halt when you halt and be polite. I am stricter about this than almost anything else - I do think completely clear boundaries are the key. I am sure that is all in place for Bear and he sounds completely normal but cheeky!! We have found good leading to be vital for many other early lessons. Tying up can be harder to correct if they have learnt to pull back. Again the trick is plenty of lead rope! We have found that using a long rope not fixed to something but through a ring or other fixing with a person on the end is helpful. This makes it safer if they 'wriggle' though I have had the horrible experience of tying up a youngster that we thought was fine only to really see them struggling. In that case I thought I would have to cut the lead rope and that the horse would be injured but in fact that horse learnt a good lesson about being tied up. I would NOT recommend that however of course. Not safe or pleasant for horse or owner For years I had a horse that always felt he could get away - it really is one of the worst kinds of naughtiness!

You will move on from this stage sooooo quickly though! Yesterday I was able to trot and canter my mare in hand very politely even though she found that really good fun and quite exciting. She still remembered that she MUST stay with me even if 'playing'. Bear is lovely but pony brains are deliciously cheeky.