HHO's "Bear" project pony...

[Michen]

Been a bit unmotivated re riding the last week, hot weather etc. Plus it’s stubble field season and at this time I’d be getting Bog fit for hunting and we’d be enjoying every field could. Was feeling a bit sad and frustrated and then gave myself a massive kick up the arse because a few weeks ago I thought I may never even ride this horse again. And he manages to give me so much joy even at a walk out hacking!

Bear decided he wanted to lead Bog, not be led off him, down to the field. They are such a pair of ruffians when they are together! He’s had a short holiday and will be getting back to work from today

That cheeky pony glint seems to be making an appearance rather a lot these days! It’s hard to believe he was ever so nervous and jumpy .
I feel like I’m crawling along with Bear especially when I see what other 4yo are up to on the forum. We’ve yet to start jumping at all and really he should be going to some low key dressage. But it just feels like the right pace for us (me!?), and no harm ever came from a 4yo spending most of his first proper year under saddle hacking I guess! No pressure or expectations

 

[palo1]

Yes, some 4 year olds are doing really interesting stuff and it does inspire me to just do a tiny bit more but not much actually. There is plenty of time unless you want to compete in young horse classes or sell on as a more established horse. I feel like I have really upped the ante by planning regular school work (once a week in honesty..!) as well as some short formal sessions with an instructor (1/2 an hour per week). My young horse is not really developed enough (still bum high) nor balanced enough to do anything much more than hacking though to be fair my hacking is quite hard work. You just have to do what works for you and your plans and enjoy the lack of deadlines/pressure etc. All that will come soon enough if you plan to compete or even sell. If you really wanted could you not work towards a lightweight winter dressage plan with Intro and prelim tests?

 

[J&S]

We sat on and rode out a few times when the coloured mare was 3. Then we put her in foal so she was 4 when foal was weaned. I then hacked her around with my NF for until the next Autumn and didn't start any serious schooling until then. So at 5 she was quite ready to do some riding club stuff and by the time she was 6 she was doing PC with my quite novice step daughter. All this seemed quite soon enough to me and gave her a pretty solid back ground for life. I don't see any reason to hurry them along unless they are a commercial project. Just make sure Bear enjoys the work he does now so he is ready to progress when you feel the time is right.

 

[Michen]

Yes, some 4 year olds are doing really interesting stuff and it does inspire me to just do a tiny bit more but not much actually. There is plenty of time unless you want to compete in young horse classes or sell on as a more established horse. I feel like I have really upped the ante by planning regular school work (once a week in honesty..!) as well as some short formal sessions with an instructor (1/2 an hour per week). My young horse is not really developed enough (still bum high) nor balanced enough to do anything much more than hacking though to be fair my hacking is quite hard work. You just have to do what works for you and your plans and enjoy the lack of deadlines/pressure etc. All that will come soon enough if you plan to compete or even sell. If you really wanted could you not work towards a lightweight winter dressage plan with Intro and prelim tests?

Exactly right actually. Might have to think about some dressage divaing yes.. or just take him hunting

 

[Michen]

Sorry for the Bear spam but I’m so delighted with him! We went on our first solo and first ridden (with me riding) outing. Met a friend for a hack on the common which is insanely busy, kids, cows, bikes, pushchairs etc. I was a little apprehensive about towing properly again but he’s just so sensible, no issues and stood on trailer for 20 mins whilst we waited for delayed friend.

He couldn’t have been more relaxed, did all the gates and just generally behaved like an 8 yo the entire time. When I took Bog on this very trip as a 5yo I had acoustic ears, a market harborough and an exercise blanket on him to try and keep him rideable ??.

Hopefully the next pics will be with hounds....!

 

[J&S]

Delightful!

 

[splashgirl45]

lovely boy

 

[Laurac13]

Awesome ? I think you’ll be having lots of fun with Bear as well as Bog ?

 

[Michen]

Awesome ? I think you’ll be having lots of fun with Bear as well as Bog ?

Me too he’s such a cheeky but sweet little soul. I guess I have to stop calling him meat head ??

 

[Jayzee]

What a gem! Sounds like you're on the right track from some low key hunting

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

So lovely to see. Bear looks like a little sweetheart bless him (you're still my favourite though Boggle ?). So very pleased for you that things are going well and that you are able to enjoy your boys. Bear is a credit to you ?

 

[Michen]

So lovely to see. Bear looks like a little sweetheart bless him (you're still my favourite though Boggle ?). So very pleased for you that things are going well and that you are able to enjoy your boys. Bear is a credit to you ?

Ahh thank you- I'll let Bog know

I've just booked the vet to come and jab Boggle's hocks next week. hope I'm doing the right thing..

 

[Michen]

A musing.. took both my boys for a hack this morning. Friend on Bear me on Bog. To get out hacking you go up a steep grassy track that runs between two fields. Recently there’s been a big coil of white tape left by the fence and most horses have had a look. Bear first saw it at the weekend and was in front of a big hack group. Grabbed the bit and span, got firm use of stick and leg, span again, got whacked (rightly or wrongly) and then went. Did the same again with friend on Monday but went 3rd time. Today however he massively escalated it, tanking off down the hill, spinning and even lifting his front feet off the ground for good measure. He absolutely would not go and friend getting worried. We swapped horses and i also found it was a real battle- I’m not a weak rider but Bear is immensely physically strong and really sets his neck against you. It was physically impossible to stop him spinning. No amount of stick and leg would drive him forward (and I had a stick in both hands!) Behaviour getting worse and worse and unpleasant on a sloppy steep track and Bear himself getting really upset.

So a change of tact, asking him to go past alongside Boggle and then slightly in front and then building it up (we must have done the loop about ten times) until he was going past it on his own happily enough. This was successful, horse went back to being reasonable and responded well to lots of praise and a softer approach.

Bear hasn’t in 6 months said “NO” like that to something he’s been worried about He will usually always go second time. Made weirder by the fact he had been past it twice. In my mind the horse has to go however worried and that sort of behaviour isn’t acceptable and has to be worked through, but it was escalating so much the change of tact to a softer approach felt like the only thing to do.

Would you have done this or would you have absolutely insisted the horse goes past it as asked- in front of the other horse? Bearing in mind this is a usually very rational, reasonable 4yo but with a cheeky streak and will absolutely try it on if he thinks he can get away with it. Personally I would have insisted he went past on his own as asked in normal circumstances however much of a battle/escalation it took, but the steep slippery hill made it feel verging on dangerous hence trying the alternative approach.

I guess we all have our different ways but interested to hear what yours would have been- and what would you have done if you were on your own without a lead horse? ?

 

[BBP]

A musing.. took both my boys for a hack this morning. Friend on Bear me on Bog. To get out hacking you go up a steep grassy track that runs between two fields. Recently there’s been a big coil of white tape left by the fence and most horses have had a look. Bear first saw it at the weekend and was in front of a big hack group. Grabbed the bit and span, got firm use of stick and leg, span again, got whacked and then went. Did the same again with friend on Monday but went 3rd time. Today however he massively escalated it, tanking off down the hill, spinning and even lifting his front feet off the ground for good measure. He absolutely would not go and friend getting worried. We swapped horses and i also found it was a real battle- I’m not a weak rider but Bear is immensely physically strong and really sets his neck against you. It was physically impossible to stop him spinning. No amount of stick and leg would drive him forward (and I had a stick in both hands!) Behaviour getting worse and worse and unpleasant on a sloppy steep track and Bear himself getting really upset.

So a change of tact, asking him to go past alongside Boggle and then slightly in front and then building it up (we must have done the loop about ten times) until he was going past it on his own happily enough. This was successful, horse went back to being reasonable and responded well to lots of praise and a softer approach.

Bear hasn’t in 6 months said “NO” like that to something he’s been worried about He will usually always go second time. Made weirder by the fact he had been past it twice. In my mind the horse has to go however worried and that sort of behaviour isn’t acceptable and has to be worked through, but it was escalating so much the change of tact to a softer approach felt like the only thing to do.

Would you have done this or would you have absolutely insisted the horse goes past it as asked- in front of the other horse? Bearing in mind this is a usually very rational, reasonable 4yo but with a cheeky streak and will absolutely try it on if he thinks he can get away with it. Personally I would have insisted he went past on his own as asked in normal circumstances however much of a battle/escalation it took, but the steep slippery hill made it feel verging on dangerous hence trying the alternative approach.

I guess we all have our different ways but interested to hear what yours would have been ?

Honestly if my horse saw a giant white snake coiled up and was trying to protect us both from getting bitten by it I wouldn’t whack him for it. Horses in countries all over the world have saved their riders lives by reacting like Bear did, being on the look out for cougars, snakes, rotten bridges etc. Having ridden in the states and Africa I don’t mind them using a bit of instinct. Clearly in this instance the human knows better (unless there really was a snake within the snake?!) so I would have taken your second approach of letting him gain confidence from the other horse, or from me leading him if I knew he wouldn’t pull away. But I own a horse that escalates to panic quickly and have learned that once the heart is pounding through the saddle no smack or kick is going to shake him out of it, whereas generally he will follow past anyone.

 

[Roxylola]

I'd let them follow a reliable friend and work to build up confidence from there. Especially if he rarely says no, he obviously for the most part trusts you, I dont see any point making a battle out of something small when there is a safe easy alternative

 

[Michen]

Honestly if my horse saw a giant white snake coiled up and was trying to protect us both from getting bitten by it I wouldn’t whack him for it. Horses in countries all over the world have saved their riders lives by reacting like Bear did, being on the look out for cougars, snakes, rotten bridges etc. Having ridden in the states and Africa I don’t mind them using a bit of instinct. Clearly in this instance the human knows better (unless there really was a snake within the snake?!) so I would have taken your second approach of letting him gain confidence from the other horse, or from me leading him if I knew he wouldn’t pull away. But I own a horse that escalates to panic quickly and have learned that once the heart is pounding through the saddle no smack or kick is going to shake him out of it, whereas generally he will follow past anyone.

Hmm interesting. See I saw what he was doing as potentially nappy as well, using something as an excuse to not properly leave the yard (he has tried napping previously). I also don't find spinning and tanking off acceptable behaviour however scared, Boggle was a real bugger for that as a baby and he very very rarely does it now- he knows he can stop and assess if really needed but spinning isn't acceptable behaviour.

It's tricky to make sure I don't treat Bear like Bog, as very different horses, but Bear is the sort you give an inch and he takes a mile... but on this occasion I think I needed to think differently a bit quicker than I did.

 

[Michen]

I'd let them follow a reliable friend and work to build up confidence from there. Especially if he rarely says no, he obviously for the most part trusts you, I dont see any point making a battle out of something small when there is a safe easy alternative

Yep I think I was frustrated because he'd been passed it twice with much less battle- so I didn't feel his behaviour was genuinely being scared... but horses aren't always exactly rational are they! I do wonder though what I would have done if I'd been on my own with no lead horse? As he'd have had to go past it then unless I got off and lead.

 

[Auslander]

A musing.. took both my boys for a hack this morning. Friend on Bear me on Bog. To get out hacking you go up a steep grassy track that runs between two fields. Recently there’s been a big coil of white tape left by the fence and most horses have had a look. Bear first saw it at the weekend and was in front of a big hack group. Grabbed the bit and span, got firm use of stick and leg, span again, got whacked and then went. Did the same again with friend on Monday but went 3rd time. Today however he massively escalated it, tanking off down the hill, spinning and even lifting his front feet off the ground for good measure. He absolutely would not go and friend getting worried. We swapped horses and i also found it was a real battle- I’m not a weak rider but Bear is immensely physically strong and really sets his neck against you. It was physically impossible to stop him spinning. No amount of stick and leg would drive him forward (and I had a stick in both hands!) Behaviour getting worse and worse and unpleasant on a sloppy steep track and Bear himself getting really upset.

So a change of tact, asking him to go past alongside Boggle and then slightly in front and then building it up (we must have done the loop about ten times) until he was going past it on his own happily enough. This was successful, horse went back to being reasonable and responded well to lots of praise and a softer approach.

Bear hasn’t in 6 months said “NO” like that to something he’s been worried about He will usually always go second time. Made weirder by the fact he had been past it twice. In my mind the horse has to go however worried and that sort of behaviour isn’t acceptable and has to be worked through, but it was escalating so much the change of tact to a softer approach felt like the only thing to do.

Would you have done this or would you have absolutely insisted the horse goes past it as asked- in front of the other horse? Bearing in mind this is a usually very rational, reasonable 4yo but with a cheeky streak and will absolutely try it on if he thinks he can get away with it. Personally I would have insisted he went past on his own as asked in normal circumstances however much of a battle/escalation it took, but the steep slippery hill made it feel verging on dangerous hence trying the alternative approach.

I guess we all have our different ways but interested to hear what yours would have been ?

I probably wouldn't have escalated to hitting/kicking quite so quickly. I'm all for forgiving a horse who spots something and spooks/spins the first time, then letting them come back and have a good look at whatever it is. Once they've had a bit of time to process, have a good gawp, try it on a bit more, then have another look, then I'd ask quietly for forward, and allow for a bit of wiggling. I feel that if the horse over reacts, then the rider overreacts, the horse will then escalate the situation, as he's expecting a spanking, as well as being frightened of the original trigger - so the whole scenario is blown up into a crisis situation in their little brains.
I think its perfectly ok for a 4yr old to have a handhold from an older, wiser friend.

 

[Roxylola]

Yep I think I was frustrated because he'd been passed it twice with much less battle- so I didn't feel his behaviour was genuinely being scared... but horses aren't always exactly rational are they! I do wonder though what I would have done if I'd been on my own with no lead horse? As he'd have had to go past it then unless I got off and lead.

I'd have hopped off and led if I'd been on my own, maybe it's a bit of nappiness, but even if it is that stems from insecurity. I'll also sit on for a bit as long as it's safe to do, let them look and weigh it all up for a while although I'll correct them if they go to spin or something. I dont think battling them past something "scary" helps in the long term, if it's a permanent fixture the more you dominate him past it the scarier the whole thing becomes for him

 

[Errin Paddywack]

In your shoes if I had been on my own I would have got off and led past it, no point in a battle which often leads to escalating behaviour. My section C would have a violent spook at something and then if I let him just stand and think about it would eventually march up to it, check it out then pass quite happily. My appaloosa mare however, if she really spooked I got off and led because her next approach was to rear.

 

[BBP]

It’s definitely horse dependent. My sister has connie crosses and they can be pushed past most things if given time to assess the situation and then ridden forwards with a ‘we are going past this’ attitude. Whereas with BBP, he will spot something a mile away and his heart starts banging, legs start shaking, eyes on stalks and it’s a genuine fear. If you try to bully him forwards it then a switch flips and he goes into survival mode, complete with dragon snorts and whatever he has to do to get away. Whereas if you hop off and lead, or let another horse lead, you can generally get him past, tell him he’s a plonker and carry on as normal. The other week was an exception as I was leading out in hand, he saw monsters and I tried to keep coaxing him forwards but he got more and more panicked until he was spinning and rearing and fell on the road. What I should have done with him is just take him home as soon as he started to get stressed as some days there is no reasoning with him, especially when he is in pain. But he is a very ‘special’ case (arguments to be made as to whether I made him that way by being too soft) and I don’t treat others the same.

 

[Michen]

I probably wouldn't have escalated to hitting/kicking quite so quickly. I'm all for forgiving a horse who spots something and spooks/spins the first time, then letting them come back and have a good look at whatever it is. Once they've had a bit of time to process, have a good gawp, try it on a bit more, then have another look, then I'd ask quietly for forward, and allow for a bit of wiggling. I feel that if the horse over reacts, then the rider overreacts, the horse will then escalate the situation, as he's expecting a spanking, as well as being frightened of the original trigger - so the whole scenario is blown up into a crisis situation in their little brains.
I think its perfectly ok for a 4yr old to have a handhold from an older, wiser friend.

Hmm interesting. Maybe I'm a bit overly firm then- I just see spinning and tanking as completely unacceptable behaviour hence using strong aids to correct. But possibly I'm overly sensitive on it due to Boggle young behaviour.

What if you are on your own with the 4yo out hacking in that scenario and can't rely on a lead horse?

 

[Wheels]

He escalated things because he had already had a bit of a fright but instead of being there for him you whacked him a few times! Then the second and third time he was still worried about whatever it was but also worried he was going to get another thwack and that caused him to bubble over. Far too stressful for a 4 year old. Patience is often required with sensitive horses of any age but especially a young horse.

I agree with you that horses must go passed something but your quieter method worked where your forceful method may have got you passed once but caused you more problems in the long run.

 

[Michen]

It’s definitely horse dependent. My sister has connie crosses and they can be pushed past most things if given time to assess the situation and then ridden forwards with a ‘we are going past this’ attitude. Whereas with BBP, he will spot something a mile away and his heart starts banging, legs start shaking, eyes on stalks and it’s a genuine fear. If you try to bully him forwards it then a switch flips and he goes into survival mode, complete with dragon snorts and whatever he has to do to get away. Whereas if you hop off and lead, or let another horse lead, you can generally get him past, tell him he’s a plonker and carry on as normal. The other week was an exception as I was leading out in hand, he saw monsters and I tried to keep coaxing him forwards but he got more and more panicked until he was spinning and rearing and fell on the road. What I should have done with him is just take him home as soon as he started to get stressed as some days there is no reasoning with him, especially when he is in pain. But he is a very ‘special’ case (arguments to be made as to whether I made him that way by being too soft) and I don’t treat others the same.

Yep see the scenarios felt different today. First two times where he went reasonably quickly he wasn't upset, it felt like real naughtiness. But today he felt genuinely upset- hence changing tact quite quickly.

I can't think of a scenario where Bog has ever refused to go past something with that much commitment!

 

[Michen]

He escalated things because he had already had a bit of a fright but instead of being there for him you whacked him a few times! Then the second and third time he was still worried about whatever it was but also worried he was going to get another thwack and that caused him to bubble over. Far too stressful for a 4 year old. Patience is often required with sensitive horses of any age but especially a young horse.

I agree with you that horses must go passed something but your quieter method worked where your forceful method may have got you passed once but caused you more problems in the long run.

The quieter method worked because I had a lead horse. To be clear- I would never put any pressure on a horse for stopping and looking- but tanking off down the hill and spinning into other horses etc with what initially felt like nappiness felt like it needed some strong correction. The first few times in no way did I feel he was genuinely frightened, but today he obviously got upset as it esculated - hence changing approach.

 

[BBP]

Yep see the scenarios felt different today. First two times where he went reasonably quickly he wasn't upset, it felt like real naughtiness. But today he felt genuinely upset- hence changing tact quite quickly.

I can't think of a scenario where Bog has ever refused to go past something with that much commitment!

I think you did the right thing in that you recognised that what you were doing wasn’t helping and changed tactics. Nothing wrong with admitting you might have been a bit quick to be tough, in another scenario you might have been right. I’ve got tough with BBP before, some days I was fair and clear and it either worked or it didn’t, others I just got cross and lost my temper a bit, and those really didn’t work. Every day is a learning experience!

 

[Michen]

I think you did the right thing in that you recognised that what you were doing wasn’t helping and changed tactics. Nothing wrong with admitting you might have been a bit quick to be tough, in another scenario you might have been right. I’ve got tough with BBP before, some days I was fair and clear and it either worked or it didn’t, others I just got cross and lost my temper a bit, and those really didn’t work. Every day is a learning experience!

Yeah, I've generally been fairly soft with Bear because of where he started so when required he's been squashed but in a quiet way. I can't actually think of a time I've used a stick on him before (bar a schooling whip tickle to move off the leg)- BUT he is super cheeky and he can be immensely stubborn- far more so than Boggle who was explosive and excitable but generally gave up really quickly. And I genuinely felt this was cheekiness- until he got upset.

He's the kind of horse who will try something once and if he feels like it was successful will really try again...he learns this instantly. So I guess that's what I was trying to prevent as last time that happened it took a lot of effort to get him out of it (pulling away when being led)

 

[HashRouge]

I feel that if the horse over reacts, then the rider overreacts, the horse will then escalate the situation, as he's expecting a spanking, as well as being frightened of the original trigger - so the whole scenario is blown up into a crisis situation in their little brains.

I think this is a really good point. It's important to remember, I think, that Bear is only 4 and is still quite new to this hacking out and seeing new things business. He might be unflappable about a lot of things, but he has obviously got a bee in his bonnet about this white tape. There is no point turning it into a battle of strength because from the sounds of it Bear is going to win and you will just end up with him more stressed and frightened and convinced he can't go past the tape! One thing I am certain off with horses is there is absolutely no point turning something into a battle if you don't have to. If I'd been on my own with him, yes I would have got off and led him past. I would then have led him backwards and forwards until he seemed calm and then got back on and tried riding past it. For the next week or two though, I would aim to do this ride with a friend and let Bear take a lead. He has obviously built it up in his head and you need to try and unpick that. I do get that spinning and tanking off is "naughty", but he isn't doing it specifically to be annoying/ naughty - he's doing it because he's 4 and he's found something he's nervous of. Take the time to build up his confidence and you won't get the naughty behaviour.

I hope that makes sense. I've had to really work on this with my own riding over the past year or so, as my share horse can be extremely nervous and there are various things that we meet out hacking that will cause him to halt and refuse to move, or spin and charge off in the other direction. He's an idiot, but I do recognise he's not being an idiot deliberately to annoy me! Smacking and kicking doesn't work with him - I tried it once to my regret early on when he wouldn't go past a certain section of road (there is a stream that runs next to the road at this point). What soon became clear was that the spinning and tanking off became worse the more pressure I put on. So I stopped, gave him a pat, got off and led him past. I then led him backwards and forwards multiple times until he was calm, then got back on and rode him past three or four times. He now very rarely spins and tanks off because he is more confident hacking and usually when he does try it, it is easier to stop him and get him over/ past whatever he is worried about.

Edited to add - he is a very different character from Bear from the sounds of it. Very twitchy and nervous about everything, so I don't think you'll have to work quite so hard or for as long with Bear!

 

[Michen]

I think this is a really good point. It's important to remember, I think, that Bear is only 4 and is still quite new to this hacking out and seeing new things business. He might be unflappable about a lot of things, but he has obviously got a bee in his bonnet about this white tape. There is no point turning it into a battle of strength because from the sounds of it Bear is going to win and you will just end up with him more stressed and frightened and convinced he can't go past the tape! One thing I am certain off with horses is there is absolutely no point turning something into a battle if you don't have to. If I'd been on my own with him, yes I would have got off and led him past. I would then have led him backwards and forwards until he seemed calm and then got back on and tried riding past it. For the next week or two though, I would aim to do this ride with a friend and let Bear take a lead. He has obviously built it up in his head and you need to try and unpick that. I do get that spinning and tanking off is "naughty", but he isn't doing it specifically to be annoying/ naughty - he's doing it because he's 4 and he's found something he's nervous of. Take the time to build up his confidence and you won't get the naughty behaviour.

I hope that makes sense. I've had to really work on this with my own riding over the past year or so, as my share horse can be extremely nervous and there are various things that we meet out hacking that will cause him to halt and refuse to move, or spin and charge off in the other direction. He's an idiot, but I do recognise he's not being an idiot deliberately to annoy me! Smacking and kicking doesn't work with him - I tried it once to my regret early on when he wouldn't go past a certain section of road (there is a stream that runs next to the road at this point). What soon became clear was that the spinning and tanking off became worse the more pressure I put on. So I stopped, gave him a pat, got off and led him past. I then led him backwards and forwards multiple times until he was calm, then got back on and rode him past three or four times. He now very rarely spins and tanks off because he is more confident hacking and usually when he does try it, it is easier to stop him and get him over/ past whatever he is worried about.

Yep makes sense! We did loads of standing him next to it, patting etc, he had no issues. But still then span again when represented and asked to walk past it. That made me suspicious of it being more nappiness, but by then we were on the softer approach anyway, so just took it back a step with Bog closer/more in front.

I am probably hyper aware because of Bears ability to learn bad/naughty behaviour so very quickly, the last thing I want is for him to think “cool, I can spin at stuff and tank off and nothing will really happen”. I wasn’t quick enough to nip some other behaviour in the bud early on (on the ground) and I really did pay for it!

 

[HashRouge]

Yep makes sense! We did loads of standing him next to it, patting etc, he had no issues. But still then span again when represented and asked to walk past it. That made me suspicious of it being more nappiness, but by then we were on the softer approach anyway, so just took it back a step with Bog closer/more in front.

I am probably hyper aware because of Bears ability to learn bad/naughty behaviour so very quickly, the last thing I want is for him to think “cool, I can spin at stuff and tank off and nothing will really happen”. I wasn’t quick enough to nip some other behaviour in the bud early on (on the ground) and I really did pay for it!

Your latter paragraph is why I would say avoid situations that have the potential to become a battle wherever possible, as he stands a good chance of winning and that could reinforce the nappiness (if that makes sense). If he doesn't have reason to tank off in the first place, he won't have the chance to learn it as a good evasion technique. I don't think that you need to go through and win this sort of battle in order to properly train him - the best approach is to avoid the battle in the first place!

As an example, when I worked as an SJ groom we were sent a nice 4 year old for producing. He had been backed, but it soon became very clear that he had learnt to rear vertically as an evasion technique! He would do it on the lunge and under saddle and you couldn't win the battle as he would just get sillier and sillier and rear higher if you kept trying to push him through it. So my boss got him on the long reins and spent a month long reining him all over the farm, as for some reason he didn't rear on the long reins. By the end of the month he seemed to have forgotten all about the rearing, and they were able to get back on him without any problems. He never did it again and was sold for a substantial amount of money as a 6 yr old. The rearing was incredibly dangerous behaviour and it was a battle that my boss knew would be very hard to win. So he avoided situations where the horse could rear as an evasion technique, and he just grew out of it. With older horses where the behaviour is already entrenched it can be different, but youngsters do seems to forget and grow out of things fairly easily if you give them a chance.