HHO's "Bear" project pony...

[Michen]

There is a balance. How would you have dealt with Michen's situation given she admitted the bossy tactic actually made things worse? I've never seen a situation of a horse being scared where giving it a wallop did anything other than escalate the problem. I find if you sit quiet for a minute and let them look, they'll usually either chose to investigate it on their own accord, or walk past with no dramas, rather than pee off in the other direction.

To clarify, he did get the chance to look and investigate every time, he was only sent forward back to where he was and reprimanded when he chose to spin and tank off.. as I said he didn’t need the forward aids to get him past it as such, he did that naturally (on the successful precious times) once the forward aids had been applied to put him back where we started and not half way down the hill!

 

[SusieT]

Pause and pat- by reaching straight for the stick/kick/force approach the third time he was anticpiating it and his adrenaline/stress levels went higher hence why he escalated his behaviour.
Think stop, look, pat and then ask to go forwards calmly and consistantly, he will learn with time that going forwards is not stressful and easier. If beaten past everything (even if its only a couple of whacks) they learn to resist more strongly the first time.

 

[suebou]

There is a balance. How would you have dealt with Michen's situation given she admitted the bossy tactic actually made things worse? I've never seen a situation of a horse being scared where giving it a wallop did anything other than escalate the problem. I find if you sit quiet for a minute and let them look, they'll usually either chose to investigate it on their own accord, or walk past with no dramas, rather than pee off in the other direction.

Yup, you’re probably right but he had been past it twice already. I’m really not as awful as the response sounds(I think!). Standing quietly is helpful but if the spook and run has happened sometimes you just have to reinforce forward as the option! I do get frustrated at endless owners who allow their horses to effectively dictate where and how they hack! I haven’t read all replies but Michen sounds competent and sensible. 4/5 year olds, especially ponies are likely to be clever and need to understand where the straight and narrow is!

 

[IrishMilo]

To clarify, he did get the chance to look and investigate every time, he was only sent forward back to where he was and reprimanded when he chose to spin and tank off.. as I said he didn’t need the forward aids to get him past it as such, he did that naturally (on the successful precious times) once the forward aids had been applied to put him back where we started and not half way down the hill!

I was speaking in a general sense ?

I can’t imagine you walloped him straight off the bat!

 

[SOS]

Pause and pat- by reaching straight for the stick/kick/force approach the third time he was anticpiating it and his adrenaline/stress levels went higher hence why he escalated his behaviour.
Think stop, look, pat and then ask to go forwards calmly and consistantly, he will learn with time that going forwards is not stressful and easier. If beaten past everything (even if its only a couple of whacks) they learn to resist more strongly the first time.

This with bells on

My current horse I rode for a number of years for his previous owner. He was labelled as nappy and unable to hack alone. Over the years I learnt that he was quite the internal worrier and quite headshy/scared on the ground. Smacking him when he planted led to him spinning and taking offIf he planted to spook or nap I’d make him stand, give him a pat and make him chill for a minute. I’d then ask him to go forward. As long as he was making forward progress I stayed gentle. If he spun or tried to tank off, I’d turn him around and push him forward again. If that didn’t work I’d give a sharp smack behind the leg after I turned them to send him forward. I would not smack before he turned and only used it to send him forward. He now hacks alone with a confident rider.

I felt the message I was giving that way was clear. The horse was worried about an object or unconfident at being alone. Go forward with the rider and that’s okay, turn around and bugger off and the question will keep getting repeated to you.

I wouldn’t say I’m too soft of a rider but I think people forget that their horse pausing/planting at an object is not necessarily the horse saying no. The horse is asking for some time to take the object in and for you to tell them what to do. Smacking them at that stage teaches them, if you’re scared il give you something to be more scared about.

Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard!

 

[Michen]

This with bells on

My current horse I rode for a number of years for his previous owner. He was labelled as nappy and unable to hack alone. Over the years I learnt that he was quite the internal worrier and quite headshy/scared on the ground. Smacking him when he planted led to him spinning and taking offIf he planted to spook or nap I’d make him stand, give him a pat and make him chill for a minute. I’d then ask him to go forward. As long as he was making forward progress I stayed gentle. If he spun or tried to tank off, I’d turn him around and push him forward again. If that didn’t work I’d give a sharp smack behind the leg after I turned them to send him forward. I would not smack before he turned and only used it to send him forward. He now hacks alone with a confident rider.

I felt the message I was giving that way was clear. The horse was worried about an object or unconfident at being alone. Go forward with the rider and that’s okay, turn around and bugger off and the question will keep getting repeated to you.

I wouldn’t say I’m too soft of a rider but I think people forget that their horse pausing/planting at an object is not necessarily the horse saying no. The horse is asking for some time to take the object in and for you to tell them what to do. Smacking them at that stage teaches them, if you’re scared il give you something to be more scared about.

Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard!

At the risk of repeating myself (sorry!). The horse was smacked for spinning and tanking to get him to go back to where he was. He was not smacked for not going forward. On the (successful attempts) to get him to go past it, there was no need to use any strong aid once he had got back in “position”- at that point he accepted it and walked on. So essentially I did exactly what you just described in your post that you did , bar I backed my leg aid up with a smack almost immediately because of the addition of the tanking and the lack of reaction from the leg. Had it just been a spin without taking the bit I probably would have just turned him back to where he was.

 

[Annagain]

I don’t think what you did was wrong as such, but I’m all for taking the easy option so if you have a Bog to show him things aren’t scary, why not make full use of him.

 

[Michen]

I don’t think what you did was wrong as such, but I’m all for taking the easy option so if you have a Bog to show him things aren’t scary, why not make full use of him.

Well usually Bog is too much of rogue himself to be considered a lead horse he’d be egging him on!

 

[Michen]

Had to share these tonight. This is “Michen”. My first horse that I truly owned, I did many a day pot washing to pay for his rugs and livery from the age of 13! I went to university very young (16) and sold him to the Orkney islands where he’s been with the same lovely owner for 12 years. I very nearly didn’t go and stayed on unnecessarily at school just so I could keep him and was close to buying him back five years later. He was the most difficult, frustrating horse you could imagine. Looking back and maybe someone will see it in the photos, I’m convinced he had some standie in him as he had this insane trot that was almost impossible to ride. I think he had spent his younger years being driven.

I didn’t get the chance to do pony club etc as no transport so he never left the yard until the day I sold him, he was a grumpy bugger, stubborn and tricky to ride but so beautiful (all 14.2hh) of him and he kept me smiling throughout the usual teenage dramas. I see a lot of Boggleism in him when I look at these photos.

A great old friend who was sadly lost to colic tonight. We never forget the first ones we truly love that get us hooked on horses for life.

 

[Roxylola]

Oh michen, so sorry, he looks and sounds fabulous ❤

 

[Sam_J]

Beautiful horse, I see the resemblance to Boggle! Sorry for your loss x

 

[Michen]

There is isn’t there! Thanks both. Very much his owners loss, she was fantastic with him, I went to visit him a few years after I sold him and he wouldn’t come near me (his default to strangers!), but you can’t help but feel sad even when it’s been such a long time. I really have lots of my current life to thank him for

 

[Mule]

There's definitely a boggle look there.He was very handsome and it sounds like he had a great life x

 

[D66]

Sad news for you.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

If you had just shown us the picture and not told us who he was I would have assumed Boggle. You really seem to have a theme going with these bay horses. Lovely pony, so sad to hear he has passed away.

 

[Michen]

Well I had some cheer from Boggle today, he feels so much better. Not chucking me to one side at all anymore from the go (usually sort of walks or off throughout the hack). Vet on Tuesday to inject with steroids and we will work him up before but if he’s sound after flexion or it’s very very minimal (1/10) I’d be inclined to not jab the hocks and check again in a few more weeks.

 

[alexomahony]

Sorry to hear about your old pony Michen - he was stunning and obviously started a life long love affair with pretty bay ponies! <3

Also great news about Bog!

Bear sounds very much like your average Connemara and very much like mine! He is 15, yet his first option with anything spooky is still to spin and bog off - I generally deal with it by being ready for it at all times (calves on!) and always being one step ahead, watch his ears. This means I can 'catch him' with my legs in the first step of the spin and not let him go any further. Sometimes he gets a tap on the shoulder to remind him that I'm in charge and that it's ok (he is truly a follower and likes to be told what to do). It means he is confident that I've 'got his back' and then tends to get much braver - the more he is allowed to react, the more he will panic himself and the behavior will escalate, if I catch him in the first few steps, then usually he will calm down and do as asked x

 

[Laurac13]

What a lovely chap he was RIP Michen x

 

[Michen]

Sorry to hear about your old pony Michen - he was stunning and obviously started a life long love affair with pretty bay ponies! <3

Also great news about Bog!

Bear sounds very much like your average Connemara and very much like mine! He is 15, yet his first option with anything spooky is still to spin and bog off - I generally deal with it by being ready for it at all times (calves on!) and always being one step ahead, watch his ears. This means I can 'catch him' with my legs in the first step of the spin and not let him go any further. Sometimes he gets a tap on the shoulder to remind him that I'm in charge and that it's ok (he is truly a follower and likes to be told what to do). It means he is confident that I've 'got his back' and then tends to get much braver - the more he is allowed to react, the more he will panic himself and the behavior will escalate, if I catch him in the first few steps, then usually he will calm down and do as asked x

Thanks! I don’t feel it’s a behaviour to accept, Boggle had a very quick and viscous spin as a 5/6 year old and it was not a habit I wanted to continue , obviously you can’t always prevent it 100% but consistent riding and making it very clear that spinning was not an acceptable form of behaviour and I’d say he has done it a handful of times as a 7/8 year old. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t teleport to the side when he deems necessary though But a spin is not in his trick book anymore. I don’t need to ride through it because he won’t even try it. Same with bucking, exploding, etc... most of the time!

To me it’s behaviour to be addressed and hopefully ironed out as a habit not just accepted as a connemara pony trait. And to be fair to Bear- I can probably count on one hand the number of times he’s done it too

 

[Michen]

Bear and hounds today. Will put a proper post up but very, very proud and so is he!

 

[ycbm]

Pause and pat- .

Pause maybe, pat no way. It's unwise to reassure a horse for being afraid because what we do to reassure (pat, say good boy) is the same as what we do to reward (pat, say good boy) and the horse can't tell it's being reassured but thinks it's being told that it has produced the right behaviour by being scared.
.

 

[Wheels]

Pause maybe, pat no way. It's unwise to reassure a horse for being afraid because what we do to reassure (pat, say good boy) is the same as what we do to reward (pat, say good boy) and the horse can't tell it's being reassured but thinks it's being told that it has produced the right behaviour by being scared.
.

I know what you are getting at but being scared is an automatic reaction, the horse hasn't produced that as a behaviour, it is an emotion that can then go on to cause the unwanted behaviour. A pat or scratch or even treat (for some horses) at the right time can go a long way. Would I reward the horse for turning around and buggering off? Nope but I would for facing up to / walking towards / sniffing the object it had originally tried to get away from.

 

[Michen]

Could Bear look any cuter in the first pic?

Ah well I’m really really proud. This is not how I intended to intro Bear to hounds but I’m on leave this week and couldn’t make it work in time to utilise the holiday with a quieter option whereby it would just involve a few of the hunt and the hounds on private exercise.


This was 25-30 horses with the bloodhounds and started in a stubble field (eek!). Bear hasn’t even been to a show he’s only done an arena hire and boxed for a hack! Anyway, I needed to get him out and figured if I kept to the front it wouldn’t feel like such a big group, so that’s what we did- trundled off on our own to this morning exercise meet and had such a great time. He was snorty and fizzy but very well behaved, I kept a super relaxed seat with him including reins and lots of pats at the beginning to reassure him as he grew in confidence (which took all of 5 minutes). He lifted his bottom once out of frustration when it all got a bit bunched up stopping on a road, was gently but firmly corrected (IMO it’s imperative you teach horses from the go that it’s not acceptable behaviour out hunting- so many accidents from bucking horses and people being too close), listened and was just a total pleasure from start to finish- but also really fun, bouncy and forward.


He will go on quieter exercise on sat, then again twice next week which perhaps seems full on but essential not to get complacent with a youngun and get them finding it as boring as possible as soon as possible. Then I’ll need to find some actual quiet autumn hunting for him to do some standing around- the only downfall of hound exercise is that it doesn’t teach them to stand but I think this can sometimes be more favourable the first few times anyway. And that will be it! The start of making Bear into a hunter for next season anyway.. if he’s not sold..

And let’s face it we all know he bloody won’t be

 

[Roxylola]

He looks gorgeous. Let's face it, he secured his place when he mated up with Bog, hes Bog's pony now

 

[Berpisc]

Sorry to hear about your old pony, I think Bear is very lucky to have you starting him off on his adventures.

 

[Jeni the dragon]

You both look like you're having a fabulous time!

 

[Red-1]

I am sorry about your old pony, but what a fabulous Bear update!

 

[Michen]

I am sorry about your old pony, but what a fabulous Bear update!

Thank you! And your thoughts on him when he was thrown into the mix as a potential purchase mattered so even better to hear ?

 

[Michen]

He looks gorgeous. Let's face it, he secured his place when he mated up with Bog, hes Bog's pony now

Poor Bog I didn’t even mention him. He did have his hocks jabbed in the end to make matters worse he also had a lump that has been on his neck since it appeared after a vaccine removed. Tiny thing, smaller than a pea but he had started shaking his head when it was pressed so we decided to remove.


So not only did he get hock jabs he also now has stitches and a slightly horrid wound AND he had to watch Bear arrive back from hound exercise.


He pinned his ears back at me and he’s never done that (to me!)

 

[Roxylola]

Oh, poor Bog. That's a Bad Day. Sending get well vibez