Hmm....Rapping??!!

Tormenta

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Well reading previous posts on the subject seems to me that some find it inhumane and cruel

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Count me in on that, and add 'stupid' to it.
S


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Absolutely!!
 

Mbronze

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It's a great jump for unseating smart ass clients if you're teaching too (ah, the sins of my youth)

S


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Oh shils, you really are bad
 

sye777

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Masterbronze my apologies as my comments are not directed at you but are directed at the person concerned.
Good schooling and the corrct horse are the only way. You believe the horse is capable then they should pay the money and get the help and instruction required.
Totally p's me off any sort of rapping be it raising the pole, whipping pricking or zapping the legs etc.........
I have the most horribly scarred horse who is a chestnut but now with white stripes up his fore legs and what can only be described as barbed wire markings to his chest and hind legs. He will jump 1.40 all day long but not in a good way. His issues delve even deeper and hence probably why i saw red!!
Sorry, not aimed personally, my apoligies if I offended you.
 

Mbronze

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Don't apologise you are having to live with the effects of such a practice, it is a subject that angers people.

I'm hoping my sj instructor will help sort them out however i am one that just thinks that schooling is the way. IMO my mare is very well schooled and has a beautiful jump which keeps improving as her schooling does. I am very lucky to have her, but i put in hard work over the past three years to get her to just PN level.
 

bexandspooky

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Am I the only one thinking that if a horse doesn't take any notice of Poles knocking it's legs when it hits the fence, then being glanced by a bit of holly on the way past is not going to make the slightest bit of difference?!
 

Amymay

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Well reading previous posts on the subject seems to me that some find it inhumane and cruel

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Well it is. The results are neglible, and can f*ck a horse up for life. If that makes me a bunnyhugger for objecting to it - so be it.

It still amazes me that in this day and age people don't 'get' what works well and what doesn't.......
 

Mbronze

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I'm not saying it isn't cruel at all AmyMay, I just wanted people that may be upset by what I was about to post to be warned!!
I must stress to you i was absolutely amazed when i first heard it and thats why i wanted some advice, I don't want to meddle in their business but i just feel that if i could help them i would be helping the horse so he doesn't have to go through this barbaric treatment.
 

Amymay

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.... and am breathing again.

Well, as Shills says - what they are doing constitutes abuse firstly and foremostly.

But secondly - most people resort to these sorts of tactics because of deficincies in themselves. So the jockey would be the first place to look....

Hope you can do something to help. But if all else fails, then there is the authorities. And i wouldn't hesitate.

But to be fair MB you are insinuating that anyone who finds this practice abhorant is a bunnyhugger - and for better or worse, that is a little insulting..
 

Mbronze

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I didn't mean to come across as that, I was trying to find a term that meant 'loves animals'or something like that (although i would probably say that is 100% of the forum)

I haven't come across correctly obviously, probably not even now??? I just wanted a little word of warning before someone reads the post cause it isn't very nice what i'm talking about.

I wasn't going to go to the authorities about it, but i think after all the advice on here then i will tell them straight tomorrow that what they are doing is illegal as well as cruel..i'll suggest the other methods on here to them as a far superior alternative to what they have been thinking about.

I am sorry AmyMay i never meant to offend you or anyone else but you can always count me in the bunnyhuggers camp in this case
 

somethingorother

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I agree AM, but then again i think the use of the term bunnyhugger is way overused, obviously to the point where it means 'not cruel and stupid' now.

I also agree that if firm persuasion cannot PREVENT them from doing this then you need to threaten to inform the authorities suggested to put them off, before they start to damage their horse. Don't stand by and watch it happen, even once, without doing everything you can (without endangering yourself) to stop them, or else you are just condoning this disgusting behaviour. If they are so stupid as to carry on when you have informed them of the wrongs of what they are doing, then they need to be reported immediately.

It infuriates me that people still think things like this are acceptable when there are so many other options.
 

Amymay

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Ok, I see where you're comming from now. Apologies for jumping to the wrong conclussion.

You're in a terribly difficult position MB. Hope you manage to find a way through it.

xx
 

Shilasdair

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I think Masterbronze perhaps didn't choose her words very carefully.
It seems to me though, that she is asking us to confirm/support her gut feeling that rapping, etc is wrong with a view to taking action to prevent it.
I don't get the feeling that Mb supports this horse owner's actions at all, she just needed help to solve the problem.
S
 

somethingorother

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My last response was written before masterbronze's most recent addition. I think you're doing the right thing mb, let us know how you get on. Good luck with it as well, hope they take it as they should and don't kick up a big fuss.
 

Amymay

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QR
Shils' Thought for The Day:

Boa constrictors like to hug bunnies, too.

S


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And it's a classic!!!!
 

annret

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Thanks S, IMHO I think they should work on his canter, as i always find a good quality canter improves my girls jump immensely.
I have a wonderful sj instructor, who i really want to introduce them to,with any luck she will be an enormous help to them as she was to me.
I'll remind them about the FEI rules, may put them off as i honestly don't think that they think they are doing anything wrong. Hence, I was quite shocked when they told me about the wrapping and holly leaf pole!!

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Sounds like they're lucky to have you as a friend then


Yes, I entirely agree with you that a good jump comes from a good canter so hopefully if the horse is inexperienced, it will naturally become more careful and consistent when it's ridden in a more round canter/better rhythmn to a jump.
 

Mbronze

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Shils, Your bang on!!!
I'm on a really small yard now and normally would have the support of other people but I don't because I don't know anyone yet. I just felt like I was the only person on this yard that was shocked by this behaviour and was honestly thinking i was going mad when i heard it.
Thanks for your support, I have taken the suggestions and am going to hopefully get her to try apex jumps, schooling, grids and a new sj teacher...I think i'll have to turn into a bit of a bossy boots and put my foot down here about what i find acceptable and not acceptable!!! Its just madness..thats all i can think at the minute.
Thank you though for putting into words what i could not.
 

Shilasdair

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Shils, Your bang on!!!
I'm on a really small yard now and normally would have the support of other people but I don't because I don't know anyone yet. I just felt like I was the only person on this yard that was shocked by this behaviour and was honestly thinking i was going mad when i heard it.
Thanks for your support, I have taken the suggestions and am going to hopefully get her to try apex jumps, schooling, grids and a new sj teacher...I think i'll have to turn into a bit of a bossy boots and put my foot down here about what i find acceptable and not acceptable!!! Its just madness..thats all i can think at the minute.
Thank you though for putting into words what i could not.

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Hope all our comments were helpful - if she's into PC/BE I'm pretty sure they have banned rapping/blistering etc as well, so you could try looking up their rules as extra persuasion.
Let us know how you get on.

S
 

Shilasdair

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Whats blistering got to do with it!!!

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Masterbronze didn't mention blistering; I did.
There are many ways in SJ, to abuse the horse supposedly in order to make him jump higher or more cleanly.
One way is rapping, another is putting sharp objects inside the horse's front boots, or putting astringent substances (colloquially known as blistering) on the horses' shins (or inside the boots) to hyper-sensitise the skin and thus cause more pain on hitting a pole.
Perhaps you are thinking of the 'blistering' that can be used (in a similar fashion to line or pin firing) to heal wounds more quickly (or to burn off proud flesh)?
Either way, I found your post charming, and an excellent addition to the thread.

S


ETA This link http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/equestrianism-ban-on-rider-for-cruelty-1552168.html
 

sam1am

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In MY opinion.which i am entitled to, the op mentioned holly wrapped around a pole.
I do not find this cruel nor using metal poles/heavy poles.
(would u be against jumping gorse bushes etc too? because they also tend to be spikey)
I would be against blistering cannons to make them more sensitive, this is a heineous(sp) practisealong with spikes inside boots.
BUT
The op did not mention any of this.
therefore i do not think it relevent that you nentioned it.
seeing as i have no 'forum clout' anyway im trying to be honest and expect a backlash of people hating me now.

* runs...fast*
 

walkingman

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Thanks Cattie I will certainly be suggesting this idea

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Pssssssst - that's an 'apex jump'.
S


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An apex jump is where you have the poles on the same axis as the jump itself. They act as wings. The jump Cattie describes doesnt really have a name other than V poles.
Apex jump


You can see the difference in the article that Cattie linked to
 

Amymay

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In MY opinion.which i am entitled to, the op mentioned holly wrapped around a pole. I do not find this cruel

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I am shocked to hear that you advocate cruel practices in order to get results. And also very saddened.
 

joeanne

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In MY opinion.which i am entitled to, the op mentioned holly wrapped around a pole.
I do not find this cruel nor using metal poles/heavy poles.
(would u be against jumping gorse bushes etc too? because they also tend to be spikey)
I would be against blistering cannons to make them more sensitive, this is a heineous(sp) practisealong with spikes inside boots.
BUT
The op did not mention any of this.
therefore i do not think it relevent that you nentioned it.
seeing as i have no 'forum clout' anyway im trying to be honest and expect a backlash of people hating me now.

* runs...fast*

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In which case all i can say is i am glad i am not a horse owned by yourself

Just to add....jumping a gorse bush is fine, purely as it wont DELIBERATELY be rammed into my horses legs (which are protected by boots anyway so not likely to be injured by gorse!)
 

muddy_grey

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I have seen all that S described in practice. Unfortunately in the short term they can work, however these people sound like they want to keep the horse for a while. There is no quick fix and I think the best suggestion is to get them a good instructor. Well done for trying to find them an alternative.
I have been sat on a horse that refused to even come round the corner as someone was stood 5 feet from the fence and it breaks your heart.
 

Shilasdair

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Thanks Cattie I will certainly be suggesting this idea

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Pssssssst - that's an 'apex jump'.
S


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An apex jump is where you have the poles on the same axis as the jump itself. They act as wings. The jump Cattie describes doesnt really have a name other than V poles.

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I understand what you are saying - and I'd like to make it clear I'm not into SJing, or competitive in any form.

I was taught, however, by an ex Badminton competitor, and by endless BHS instructors, that an apex jump consists of poles in an inverted V so this shape - ^ being leant on a straight bar - just as in the picture you copied from Cattie's article.
I'm not sure the horse will mind what it's called though - as long as it works...

S
 
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