Holding a stable on retention - how long is too long?

[Supertrooper]

The yard owner is right. Obviously nobody knew that the situation with surgery etc would arise but it isn’t the yard owners fault and if the livery wants to keep the stable retained then I’d be advising it’s now full cost

This situation could go on lot longer than a year if there are complications post surgery or it then takes another year to find the right horse and it’s very unfair on yard owner to have a stable that she’s only getting 25% for but could easily be filled

 

[EventingMum]

25% will not cover fixed costs like business rates, insurance, staff wages etc so expecting to keep the stable at that price is unrealistic.

 

[honetpot]

It's down to profit. If you know your profit margin on everything, from maintain ace, labour, feed etc, if you are making that profit for an empty stable, with no effort, or hassle I would rent an empty stable. If are not making a profit, you increase the rent, so you do not make a loss, then it is up to the renter if they want to pay the extra.

 

[Jenko109]

Awww gutted for Jane tho. Sounds like shes had some rotten luck.

 

[Expo]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I agree with you all and have told Jane that I will not be drawn into the debate (none of my business really), but that, in my opinion, she can’t just hang on to the space for such a long period of time. Mary is trying to be diplomatic and not cause too much upset, in the face of Jane’s health issue, but still has a business to manage of course.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

I’ve always paid the full price for retaining a stable whilst looking for a new horse.

 

[ponynutz]

YO 100%. I assume she was planning on paying the full price when she has said horse? A middle ground might be she pays another retention at full price (i.e. work out how much just stable would cost in a normal monthly fee not facilities) and ask her to pay this discounted price per month so she is essentially renting an empty stable.

If it was me and I didn't want to give up the stable (which I would have done by now most likely and got myself onto the waiting list) I'd even think it reasonable to be asked to pay the full monthly livery cost while being sans horse to keep my place. 6 months is a long time when YO could be making extra income on a stable.

YO has a business to run and has already been generous.

 

[moosea]

Jane should either pay the full amount or leave.

Not sure why the YO should reduce the amount to allow for hay, bedding or feed because the stable is empty when they could fill it easily.

Pay for it in full or lose it.

 

[paddi22]

I think jane is being ridiculously selfish. owner has generously promised her a space when needed. all jane is doing at the moment is damaging someone's business for no reason and causing drama by involving other liveries.

 

[ycbm]

Not sure why the YO should reduce the amount to allow for hay, bedding or feed because the stable is empty when they could fill it easily..

Because they aren't having to buy it.

 

[SO1]

I expect Jane may think that the 25% covers fixed costs plus a profit and that the 75% are variable costs that are only needed if the yard owner has a horse in.

 

[moosea]

Because they aren't having to buy it.

If the yard owner has people waiting for places who would pay the full price why should they loose out because they are holding a stable for and undetermined time?

 

[TPO]

I think jane is being ridiculously selfish. owner has generously promised her a space when needed. all jane is doing at the moment is damaging someone's business for no reason and causing drama by involving other liveries.

This 100%

I've really gone off Jane! Yard owner been losing out by 75% for all this time and Jane knows its YO livelihood.

I wouldn't be bending over backwards to find her a space and accommodate her in the future. I can't imagine being that rude when the YO has gone above and beyond to her own financial loss.

 

[Caol Ila]

For what it's worth, my yard charged me about 25% for the first month to retain the stable, then full DIY price for every month thereafter. However, we pay for our own hay and bedding on top of the base DIY, so you obviously don't pay for that if there's no horse in the stall.

I found a horse pretty quick, because I didn't want to pay for an empty stable longer than I had to.

I also wasn't that picky, though. If it was sound, mostly ridable, mostly sane, somewhat broke, and not pregnant, I was happy.

 

[Lois Lame]

I'd be a bit put off by Jane as even a future livery because she doesn't seem to see how unreasonable is her belief as to what is fair.

Also, keep avoiding taking sides. There is no need for you, as a friend to them both, to be on anyone's side.

 

[Lois Lame]

This 100%

I've really gone off Jane! Yard owner been losing out by 75% for all this time and Jane knows its YO livelihood.

I wouldn't be bending over backwards to find her a space and accommodate her in the future. I can't imagine being that rude when the YO has gone above and beyond to her own financial loss.

Precisely.

 

[Michen]

I think Jane needs a kick up the arse! It was VERY generous of YO to do 25% for ANY amount of time let alone months. Why on earth should she lose out on the full amount and her livelihood.

Gah, I just don't understand people. I'd never let someone be out of pocket like that.

 

[scats]

I’m afraid I agree that Jane is completely in the wrong here, and if I were the YO, I wouldn’t be too keen on finding Jane a stable again when she does finally find a new horse!

 

[HashRouge]

For what it's worth, my yard charged me about 25% for the first month to retain the stable, then full DIY price for every month thereafter. However, we pay for our own hay and bedding on top of the base DIY, so you obviously don't pay for that if there's no horse in the stall.

I found a horse pretty quick, because I didn't want to pay for an empty stable longer than I had to.

I also wasn't that picky, though. If it was sound, mostly ridable, mostly sane, somewhat broke, and not pregnant, I was happy.

Just to follow this up. I've been charged a month's livery cost for one stable, to hold two stables for six weeks (hope that makes sense). I thought this was very generous of the YO, and certainly wouldn't expect any extension on this (we're moving on Thursday).

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Difficult one: YO isn't running a charity she's running a business and will have expenses on an ongoing basis which won't be helped by one livery paying a retainer instead of full fees.

This was only intended to be a temporary situation and now it seems like it will be more protracted. Livery needs to be paying full fees if she wishes to reserve her place - hate saying it, but sorry, yup she does. Not fair to the YO else.

 

[Fransurrey]

If the YO has people waiting to take the stable, then I'm afraid I would have ended this agreement after a couple of months. If 'Jane' really likes the yard, she needs to pay full price, now. I think she's been very lucky the YO agreed to it at all. I know mine wouldn't entertain it as she's all about money!

 

[ycbm]

If the yard owner has people waiting for places who would pay the full price why should they loose out because they are holding a stable for and undetermined time?

They won't be losing out. If they pay a pound a kilo for food then they can reduce the price by a pound for each kilo not fed to a non existent horse in an empty stable without losing a penny.
.

 

[Red-1]

The arrangement I had when having a stable on retainer was that, while there wasn't anyone else wanting the stable, I paid a small fee. Once someone else wanted it, I paid full fee. The only reduction was that I went onto the lowest available livery, which was almost DIY.

I was lucky to have a few months without anyone else wanting to have the stable, and bought a horse in that time, but would have been happy to pay the livery once someone did. I thought that was very fair and, TBH, they could have said they'd had an enquiry when they hadn't so they were very honest!

I would stay out of it in your case though, simply saying that their business arrangement wasn't my business.

 

[ihatework]

I rent a DIY stable on a livery yard. The weekly charge includes haylage and straw. I use the stable between my 3 horses on a flexible basis and it regularly sits empty for weeks.
I pay the full amount whether the stable is occupied or not.

 

[SO1]

I suppose in some situations it is better the devil you know. So YO may be thinking she would rather have Jane who she knows rather than someone new who might be a nightmare.

However I do think if she has people lined up wanting the box and she is loosing money because Jane is not covering the full fixed costs of the space when another person could then I think perhaps say to Jane that she has X number of people wanting the space and the fixed costs without hay, bedding, feed, water is X including her normal profit if she would like to reserve the box until she purchases new horse then price is X.

I think though YOs sometimes make money on selling hay and bedding to liveries so even if the livery is not using these items that is income being lost.

I think if you want the stable for you use whenever you want then you pay retainer or you risk one not being available.

I think also it depends how popular the yard is as well. If there is a huge waiting list and no other suitable options near by then Jane might have to pay up. Some of these fancy full livery yards can be over 1k a month so if I was Jane and going to be out of action and no horse for 18 months I would not bother with the retainer. 18k saved could go towards another horse.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I’m currently holding onto my second stable after the loss of my oldie. I wanted time to decide whether to get another horse or not. I’m paying full price as I should. There is another lady who is still looking for a horse a year later who is still paying the full amount to hold her space. No idea why anyone thinks that would be unfair. It’s a business not a charity.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Yo is right she can't be expected to keep the stable open that long and loosing the full amount she can earn on it potentially.

 

[Boulty]

I'd say that either Jane needs to pay the full price if she wants to keep holding the stable or clear her stuff out, let someone else have it & join the waiting list when she's ready to look again for a horse. I'd think a few months at that price would be fair enough (although still very generous of the YO who could absolutely have kept on charging full price this whole time if they'd wanted to!)

 

[Honey08]

While I’m veering towards B, because it’s pretty unreasonable to expect a stable held indefinitely for 25%, if it’s full livery I’d be happy to compromise a bit. 50% of full livery price would have more than covered my profit from full livery, and I’d happily hold a stable over winter for that personally and save myself the work! But for DIY livery I’d expect the full amount to hold a stable long term.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I am close friends with both parties here, as I keep my horse at the yard, and they are both trying to "get me on side", so I'd appreciate some insights please. I'll try and keep it short! Who is right here, as I can see both sides of the situation?

Jane sold her horse (for good reasons) in May this year, and immediately started to look for a new one. The search has been a bit stop start, as she's looking for something very specific, and so far, she has not found the "perfect" horse. YO Mary gave her a month's grace and then asked her to pay a retainer on her stable - around 25% of the normal monthly payment (large, full livery yard, with excellent facilities - and very much in demand locally). Jane has paid the retainer as asked, but has now - unfortunately - developed a medical condition which will require treatment, and possible surgery followed by more recuperation time. As such it is highly unlikely that she will be in a position to get another horse for up to a year, at which point the stable will have been empty for around 18 months or more.

Jane takes the view that, as long as the retainer is paid, the empty stable is "hers" for as long as she chooses, and there is no hurry to get a horse to put in it. She also keeps all her rugs and other stuff in the storage which goes with the stable, and her saddles in the tack room. Mary is taking the stance that the retainer was a temporary situation until Jane bought a new horse and went back to paying full livery fees every month - which she assumed would be a short term arrangement. She is now losing a significant amount of revenue from the empty space, and has had enquiries from possible new, full fee paying liveries. She has assured Jane that she will find her a space when (and if) she gets a new horse in due course, but can't keep the stable empty for a whole year.

So, who is right. Either - A) The stable is Jane's while ever she pays the retainer, or B) Mary has the right, as yard owner to ask her to relinquish it so it can be given to a new livery. Contractually, we all have a contract detailing livery services and responsibiliies etc, but there is nothing in it to cover this situation. So far I'm keeping my head down and trying to stay out of it. Both parties are trying to stay amicable!

I ask £ 50 for retention for the month, then that comes off the first bill, longer than that its normally a full months rent non refundable.