Hooray a positive at last! aka - I love my Pelham and I'm not afraid to admit it

None of us wish to hurt our horses, but the reality is that "training" = pressure and release. The sort of thing you are talking about is purely fantasy. Horses have been trained and utilised by humans for approx 4,000 years: none of it has been by the "mind-meld" route. If you wish to "bond" or "connect" with your horse by all means do so; to do any sort of useful job there are various levels of equipment and expertise. Oh, and please grow up. Soon.
 
And you have to show in a double or pelham once you move up the ranks. Can't be that much wron with them! Surely someone is allowed to be happy they have finally found something that works. I don't see the problem here. I don't post often. But I feel sorry for the person that started the thread. I very much doubt she wanted to start a row. Blimey...
 
JudeToo said:
Do you honestly think it is correct and proper to say that you would rather the horses mouth hurt rather than the riders arms, I have so many different bits that I have collected over the years but have never sought to ride in one that would hurt my horses mouth to save my arms? I currently ride my cob in a KK Training Bit and my new horse an ex racer is currently being re-mouthed because despite being backed for racing at 2yrs old he has no mouth whatsoever so will be started in a simple snaffle possibly sweet iron, but to openly admit that you would hurt the noble animal you are riding for your own comfort I think is despicable !
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I think the poster who put that may have got her words mixed up so how about we ignore it and go back to the original post? Lost Claus has found a bit that makes her pony happy and a pelham in gentle hands doesn't hurt. It just has a different action/feel/shape to a snaffle and some horses prefer that.
 
BentleyBelly said:
I think the poster who put that may have got her words mixed up so how about we ignore it and go back to the original post? Lost Claus has found a bit that makes her pony happy and a pelham in gentle hands doesn't hurt. It just has a different action/feel/shape to a snaffle and some horses prefer that.
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Exactly.
 
BentleyBelly said:
I think the poster who put that may have got her words mixed up so how about we ignore it and go back to the original post? Lost Claus has found a bit that makes her pony happy and a pelham in gentle hands doesn't hurt. It just has a different action/feel/shape to a snaffle and some horses prefer that.
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I wasn't intending to diss lost Claus, but the fact that someone would rather their horse be in pain, if Lost Claus (sorry to talk about you in the 3rd person ) finds that she feels safe in a Pelham then nothing I am going to say will change that, but maybe some lessons and reschooling could bring a better harmony to her riding, and yes I know that showing states that a horse should be presented in a double bridle once older than 4 and in the higher levels of dressage a double has to be used, but anyone that saw Countryfile yesterday would have seen Charlotte DuJardin schooling her Olympic ride in a snaffle and a drop noseband ????
 
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh really, well how about this - we show jump, show, we cross country we hack for miles, we are showing under Ponies Uk rules next season, without bits. Fantasy? highly unlikey, my best show animals are trained to school without a stitch of tack. My 2 jumping animals are going BSJA this year, and have all been trained the nice way. We intend to do just about every sport we can imagine, the nicest way possible, without the attitude of most on here! You can show affiliated without all the junk!

My first post was not even aimed at the use of pelhams, but the abuser who said she would rather her horse hurt than her. Disgusting!

Fantasy world my backside, most on here are too lazy, lacking in knowledge and empathy and want quick fixes... here is a news flash for you, a quick fix is just buying you time and i hope and pray when you yet again, go up a bit in terms of strength, that your horse head butts you very hard right in the mush and shows you how much pain he is in!

I reiterate, a quiet horse who seems 'content' is often not, infact he is more than likely breaking down. Food for thought perhaps? Or will the ignorance shine through yet again?! Subdued horses, ignorant riders, how nice for your animals!
 
My mare at first was very strong, a pelham was perfect for us both. No more yanking on her mouth for hours in a snaffle, just light contact with the pelham instead! :)
Honestly it worked so well and she learnt that light contact still meant that she responded. She is now respondent with light contact in a snaffle. If we needed to go back to a pelham, I would instantly :)
 
harriettb said:
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh really, well how about this - we show jump, show, we cross country we hack for miles, we are showing under Ponies Uk rules next season, without bits. Fantasy? highly unlikey, my best show animals are trained to school without a stitch of tack. My 2 jumping animals are going BSJA this year, and have all been trained the nice way. We intend to do just about every sport we can imagine, the nicest way possible, without the attitude of most on here! You can show affiliated without all the junk!

My first post was not even aimed at the use of pelhams, but the abuser who said she would rather her horse hurt than her. Disgusting!

Fantasy world my backside, most on here are too lazy, lacking in knowledge and empathy and want quick fixes... here is a news flash for you, a quick fix is just buying you time and i hope and pray when you yet again, go up a bit in terms of strength, that your horse head butts you very hard right in the mush and shows you how much pain he is in!

I reiterate, a quiet horse who seems 'content' is often not, infact he is more than likely breaking down. Food for thought perhaps? Or will the ignorance shine through yet again?! Subdued horses, ignorant riders, how nice for your animals!
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Do you mean you do it hackamore type equipment?
 
Lost Claus said:
*yawn*

Anyway, yes hooray for me and can't wait to start getting on with things properly now *leaves to go and give horse a jolly good thrashing and abusing*

:D
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One day you may join a forum with more people who actually give a monkeys about the horses they ride and tend to daily....proved wrong time and time again the amount of crap responses that have come back on this thread, from the bit lovers, well it would be laughable if i didn't feel so bad for the horses you own. Schooling and correct riding, you cant beat it. Perhaps try it sometime....oh wait, that would take patience and knowledge and real horsemanship wouldnt it? .... i shall now continue my training plan for new horse, to do competition and that useful job we cannot possibly achieve, without over bitting, over tacking and crap training. Please tell me none of you are 'professionals' and charge money to train horses?
 
harriettb said:
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh really, well how about this - we show jump, show, we cross country we hack for miles, we are showing under Ponies Uk rules next season, without bits. Fantasy? highly unlikey, my best show animals are trained to school without a stitch of tack. My 2 jumping animals are going BSJA this year, and have all been trained the nice way. We intend to do just about every sport we can imagine, the nicest way possible, without the attitude of most on here! You can show affiliated without all the junk!

My first post was not even aimed at the use of pelhams, but the abuser who said she would rather her horse hurt than her. Disgusting!

Fantasy world my backside, most on here are too lazy, lacking in knowledge and empathy and want quick fixes... here is a news flash for you, a quick fix is just buying you time and i hope and pray when you yet again, go up a bit in terms of strength, that your horse head butts you very hard right in the mush and shows you how much pain he is in!

I reiterate, a quiet horse who seems 'content' is often not, infact he is more than likely breaking down. Food for thought perhaps? Or will the ignorance shine through yet again?! Subdued horses, ignorant riders, how nice for your animals!
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You are "showing Ponies UK, BSJA show jumping, and cross country" bitless; really: with what sort of success? Sorry, but I seem not to have heard of your wonderfulness? Quiet horses are breaking down? Really? Could they not, actually, just be well trained and contented horses?
 
harriettb said:
One day you may join a forum with more people who actually give a monkeys about the horses they ride and tend to daily....proved wrong time and time again the amount of crap responses that have come back on this thread, from the bit lovers, well it would be laughable if i didn't feel so bad for the horses you own. Schooling and correct riding, you cant beat it. Perhaps try it sometime....oh wait, that would take patience and knowledge and real horsemanship wouldnt it? .... i shall now continue my training plan for new horse, to do competition and that useful job we cannot possibly achieve, without over bitting, over tacking and crap training. Please tell me none of you are 'professionals' and charge money to train horses?
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Harriet can I invite you to come and train my hunter to hunt without any tack on. I have whooping cough at the moment and I could do with the laugh :D
 
One thing I can recommend is a liberal smear of Marmite on the bit, this will really encourage your horse to mouth up and accept the bit :-)
 
harriettb said:
One day you may join a forum with more people who actually give a monkeys about the horses they ride and tend to daily....proved wrong time and time again the amount of crap responses that have come back on this thread,
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You have only joined the forum today, and this is the only thread you have commented on.

I find this peculiar!

But - you seem so knowledgeable that I am going to fling my pelham into the bottom of the ocean with the rest of my tack.
 
I never knew how outright nasty this forum was. Why can't people have a constructive chat about things. Rather than resorting to down right rude ness.
 
harriettb said:
One day you may join a forum with more people who actually give a monkeys about the horses they ride and tend to daily....proved wrong time and time again the amount of crap responses that have come back on this thread, from the bit lovers, well it would be laughable if i didn't feel so bad for the horses you own. Schooling and correct riding, you cant beat it. Perhaps try it sometime....oh wait, that would take patience and knowledge and real horsemanship wouldnt it? .... i shall now continue my training plan for new horse, to do competition and that useful job we cannot possibly achieve, without over bitting, over tacking and crap training. Please tell me none of you are 'professionals' and charge money to train horses?
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Sorry, I'll just have to take a minute to alert the Spanish Riding School, Carl and Charlotte, and all of the other professionals around the world that are doing it wrong............
 
harriettb said:
One day you may join a forum with more people who actually give a monkeys about the horses they ride and tend to daily....proved wrong time and time again the amount of crap responses that have come back on this thread, from the bit lovers, well it would be laughable if i didn't feel so bad for the horses you own. Schooling and correct riding, you cant beat it. Perhaps try it sometime....oh wait, that would take patience and knowledge and real horsemanship wouldnt it? .... i shall now continue my training plan for new horse, to do competition and that useful job we cannot possibly achieve, without over bitting, over tacking and crap training. Please tell me none of you are 'professionals' and charge money to train horses?
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Who the hell do you think you are - judging people without knowing them. Accusing people that they don't do schooling or correct riding without seeing what they do or do not do and accusing them of "over bitting" "over tacking" and "crap training".

If this shows how intolerant you are - god help your horses.
 
Cortez said:
You are "showing Ponies UK, BSJA show jumping, and cross country" bitless; really: with what sort of success? Sorry, but I seem not to have heard of your wonderfulness? Quiet horses are breaking down? Really? Could they not, actually, just be well trained and contented horses?
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Yes there must be DVDs and accessories we have missed, Cortez we need to follow this up quickly we are missing out.
 
I don't know how to quote on my phone. But the comment from Cortez about alerting the pros really did make me laugh. I agree. They must all be idiots! Riding about in their awful tack and bits!
 
Having a mare that would not (and has proved with previous riders) suffer in silence I think you are talking rubbish. Subdued = unhappy? No such thing as calm and relaxed then?

I also showjump bitless through personal preference, if I make a mistake, which being human can happen, there is no danger of mouth socking etc.

BUT I like to school on the flat in a pelham as she relaxes down beautifully and I have only found this bit suits after trying one 'mild' bit after another with no real success.

So well done OP for listening to your horse and finding something to suit, you'll be BSJAing without tack in no time ;)
 
JudeToo said:
One thing I can recommend is a liberal smear of Marmite on the bit, this will really encourage your horse to mouth up and accept the bit :-)
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I don't need any incentive to get my horses to take their bits thanks JT, they are quite happy to accept them. You must have been doing something wrong in your training if your horses hated their bits so much you needed to bribe them.
 
You might want to call Ponies UK and check that then? And hackamore are you for real? wont have those near my animals. They do not need them at all! Seniors can jump bitless....funny that? hmmmm really do your homework you absolute fools! Oh, BSPS for your info doesn't (yet) allow bitless, one day it shall catch up to modern times.

As for your wonderful Charlotte, she has videos on youtube using rollkhur...so she is not a valid comment, sorry! Try again though, its laughable....So please, entertain me, go and call Ponies Uk the same as i did when i needed to know if we could show under them, i dont believe the rulings have changed recently.

Apart from anything, you probably wouldn't recognise a broken down horse if it did finally snap and kick you in the teeth...but that's the trouble with people with horses these days, as apposed to horse people.

Pick spots all you like out of my comments, but before you do atleast be able to back it up! Have never read such a crock of crap in my life!
 
cptrayes said:
I don't need any incentive to get my horses to take their bits thanks JT, they are quite happy to accept them. You must have been doing something wrong in your training if your horses hated their bits so much you needed to bribe them.
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Fine example of the crock of crap i refer to above, do you think horses like being bitted, strapped in and ridden by people with no empathy then?
 
harriettb said:
You might want to call Ponies UK and check that then? And hackamore are you for real? wont have those near my animals. They do not need them at all! Seniors can jump bitless....funny that? hmmmm really do your homework you absolute fools! Oh, BSPS for your info doesn't (yet) allow bitless, one day it shall catch up to modern times.

As for your wonderful Charlotte, she has videos on youtube using rollkhur...so she is not a valid comment, sorry! Try again though, its laughable....So please, entertain me, go and call Ponies Uk the same as i did when i needed to know if we could show under them, i dont believe the rulings have changed recently.

Apart from anything, you probably wouldn't recognise a broken down horse if it did finally snap and kick you in the teeth...but that's the trouble with people with horses these days, as apposed to horse people.

Pick spots all you like out of my comments, but before you do atleast be able to back it up! Have never read such a crock of crap in my life!
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Harriet you are a scream!

Your comments on this thread are giving me a real giggle when I am feeling quite down, thankyou so much :D
 
harriettb said:
Fine example of the crock of crap i refer to above, do you think horses like being bitted, strapped in and ridden by people with no empathy then?
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No, but mine queue at the gate to be bitted, not strapped in and ridden with empathy by me. AND I ride one in a pelham - because he loves it.

You aren't the only one on this forum who can train and ride you know :D

Keep it coming Harriet, it's hilarious :D :D :D
 
I've not read all the posts BUT it appears people are confusing snaffle & pelham with the mouthpieces of the bits.
Either can be had in any type of mouthpiece and it is not uncommon for a horse that prefers an unjointed bit to go better in a pelham as those are easier to find unjointed.

A Pelham without a curb chain is, in effect, a hanging cheek snaffle. I would never use roundings as they confuse the action and don't allow the bit to fall into the correct position to use the curb sensitively.

I agree that light contact on a pelham is better than yanking on a snaffle but for an adult to use roundings is a clear sign of ignorance:- if you can't use two reins get a Kimblewick or some lessons.
 
Firstly, I would suggest that you learn some manners: no-one will listen well to rude people no matter how valid their arguments. "Broken down horses" are not allowed in competition; that's what vet assesments are for. Charlotte Dujardin is a double Olympic medallist in dressage, something I'll warrent you are not, and the breath of fresh air in that is that the "Hester" method is patently free, forward and NOT based on rollkur. The training and ultimately riding of horses is something that has evolved over more than 4,000 years; 3,999 of them have involved some form of control involving signals sent through bits.
 
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