horse died at riding club hunter trial

skewbald_again said:
Wagtail, you are talking rubbish and upsetting vulnerable people. Perhaps its time to say the S word and move on. People are very forgiving if you put your hand in the air and admit you were talking out of the orifice normally seen resting in the saddle. I know because I've done it enough times.
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I have apologised privately to Tommy's owner. I did not know the horse referred to in this thread was him. I thought it was a general discussion thread on horses that die at competitions. If anyone else has been upset, then sorry to them too. My intentions were simply to go some ways to help prevent other tragedies. The horse concerned in this thread was not at all elderly as indicated by the OP, nor was he being pushed beyond his capabilities.
 
amymay said:
I think that this was debated quite extensively in the Grand National Thread, Wagtail - where it became apparent quite quickly that you didn't really know what you were talking about............
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And this week's tact and diplomacy award goes to amymay. I would just have said s/he was talking out of her bum, but you say it so much nicer. ;)
 
Wagtail said:
Twist my words as much as you like.

I give in. You must be right. There is no need to check that horses are fit enough for competition at all. I will continue to do it however, and you will not.
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I can't quite keep up with how often you think a horse should be 5* vetted but I would question whether you have more money than sense to continually vet the same horse. Mind you, I bet you're the vets best friend ;).

BaggyBreeches - So sorry to hear about Emerald, I have been following your posts in CR about your 2 and your recent trip to the beach on them.
 
amymay said:
I think that this was debated quite extensively in the Grand National Thread, Wagtail - where it became apparent quite quickly that you didn't really know what you were talking about............
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Good argument. :) Anyone who disagrees with you, Amy, does not know what they are talking about.
 
Wagtail said:
I have apologised privately to Tommy's owner. I did not know the horse referred to in this thread was him. I thought it was a general discussion thread on horses that die at competitions. If anyone else has been upset, then sorry to them too. My intentions were simply to go some ways to help prevent other tragedies. The horse concerned in this thread was not at all elderly as indicated by the OP, nor was he being pushed beyond his capabilities.
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But you knew very well that Baggybreeches had lost Emerald and carried on poking and prodding her sore spots. Perhaps you have apologised privately by pm for that but somehow I doubt it.
 
Wagtail said:
Twist my words as much as you like.

I give in. You must be right. There is no need to check that horses are fit enough for competition at all. I will continue to do it however, and you will not.
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How dare you suggest that I would ever do anything other than run a fit horse, FYI I had two horses entered in the same race and the other one was withdrawn due to a blood test showing irregular level of enzymes, so don't you dare comment on my preparation or regime. You are obviously very very inexperienced to assume such knowledge of other disciplines and regimes, for your horses sakes I hope you wise up VERY VERY quickly.
 
Wagtail said:
I have apologised privately to Tommy's owner. I did not know the horse referred to in this thread was him. I thought it was a general discussion thread on horses that die at competitions. If anyone else has been upset, then sorry to them too. My intentions were simply to go some ways to help prevent other tragedies. The horse concerned in this thread was not at all elderly as indicated by the OP, nor was he being pushed beyond his capabilities.
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That sounds a lot like not being sorry for what you are doing, so much as sorry you have been caught out.

It is possible to arrange the keys on a computer in such an order as to make them say 'oh bugger, yes, I hadn't thought of that, I am clearly talking total crap. Not enough coffee, obviously, sorry chaps.'
 
Yep - I came in with a rather flippant remark, meant to chide those who are on about banning high level horse sport. Then realised horse owner was on the thread, cringed at my insensitivity (realised now is not the time nor place) and apologised - simple really.
 
I was the fence judge at the next fence and helped MelenR. Tommy looked in good condition and I think he was having a ball right up until the end. MelenR, you coped very well and I hope you are still. Take care and thinking of you.
 
jemima_too said:
But you knew very well that Baggybreeches had lost Emerald and carried on poking and prodding her sore spots. Perhaps you have apologised privately by pm for that but somehow I doubt it.
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Thanks jemima_too, but it isn't the fact that I am upset, I was initially irked by the fact that people should have perfectly healthy horses seen by vets for no reason, which then turned into 'you should have had yours checked before going point to point' as if I would: a)take the risk of my horse hurting himself, b) waste time running him in a race he wasn't capable of winning and c) put a jockey at risk by providing an unfit ride.

Sheesh, yes I am raw and upset, but Wagtail is clearly unhinged.
 
skewbald_again said:
That sounds a lot like not being sorry for what you are doing, so much as sorry you have been caught out.

It is possible to arrange the keys on a computer in such an order as to make them say 'oh bugger, yes, I hadn't thought of that, I am clearly talking total crap. Not enough coffee, obviously, sorry chaps.'
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And you are determined to prolong and argument, when it has nothing to do with you. MelenR knows my apology to her is genuine. I will leave you all to continue to slag me off all you like. :)
 
Wagtail said:
And you are determined to prolong and argument, when it has nothing to do with you. MelenR knows my apology to her is genuine. I will leave you all to continue to slag me off all you like. :)
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That's good of you, I'll see what I can do. And it's a public forum, btw, it has to do with who so ever would like to take part, actually.
 
How insensitive can you be, Wagtail? :mad:

Frightening to think you (apparently) actually run a livery yard and rehab horses when your posts on here show little or no understanding of the horse. :rolleyes:

Huge sympathies to both people on this thread who have lost their pride and joy. So sorry.
 
I can only assume wagtail (like myself) thought this post was in reference to an old horse being ridden around a xcountry course. However we now know that the horse was not 'elderly' and so I think it is safe to disregard those comments....

MelenR, I truly am sorry for your loss. Must have been a huge shock for you....big hugs x
 
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Wagtail the person who told you to stop posting such shite was 100% spot on.
A 5* vetting before every event? Get real. Horses are born, & then sooner or later they will die, as will we all. Try & get your head around that.

MelanR you have my sympathies. Whatever you do though please don't blame yourself, as you haven't been at fault in anyway despite some of the rubbish posted in this thread. xx
 
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Wagtail said:
Good argument. :) Anyone who disagrees with you, Amy, does not know what they are talking about.
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Nope, I'm quite often corrected on the forum - and accept quite happily if I'm wrong about something. Especially if I'm not 100% sure about what I'm talking about ;)
 
I just want to verify that Wagtail has sent me a very nice apology by pm. I understand that the original poster did not know the horse in question and referred to him as “elderly” which provoked some debate as to what is defined as elderly and what they should/shouldn’t be doing at that age. As I said before, Tommy was very fit and well.

Thanks again clodagh for all your help yesterday, much appreciated!
 
Baggybreeches said:
Thanks jemima_too, but it isn't the fact that I am upset, I was initially irked by the fact that people should have perfectly healthy horses seen by vets for no reason, which then turned into 'you should have had yours checked before going point to point' as if I would: a)take the risk of my horse hurting himself, b) waste time running him in a race he wasn't capable of winning and c) put a jockey at risk by providing an unfit ride.
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Mmm I felt an apology for her insinuations that you would have done that was in order.

Especially as I was gobsmacked to find that I had inadvertently put my own horse, pro rider and daughter who occasionally rode the horse all at risk when I found out that the horse had developed a heart murmur in the two months between her vaccination checks and 5 stage vetting. She had been out competing XC in that time.
 
Wagtail said:
I am referring to those age 20 plus. I think with rare exceptions, it is too much to ask of any horse of that age to compete hunter trials or equivalent. But that is just my opinion and I respect that others feel completely differently. :)
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Really? I'd better tell all my scurry driving mates with ponies in their 20s and even 30s that their ponies can no longer compete, then. Because what with warming up then galloping flat out around a course twice a day, it's just too much. In all seriousness, my old boss won HOYS in 2002 with a pony in his early 20s and he was still competing him 2 years ago when sadly he was kicked and broke a leg, so was PTS. That pony lived for scurrying and was the best on the circuit on a good day, and scurrying is as hard as a hunter trial course (oh, and the driver is 71 this year, so he really shouldn't be competing...).
It all depends on the horse, really, doesn't it? I've seen horses out hunting in their 20s who have easily coped, so saying age should automatically lead to retirement is not strictly true. Yes, the oldies require a bit more care sometimes, but that doesn't mean they are over the hill. Horses and humans of any age can die of heart failure at any age, it's one of the sad facts of life. I had a distant cousin in her early-thirties who was found dead one morning in 2000 of a heart attack; she was healthy and showed no signs of any problems before this, just had a massive heart attack whilst getting ready for work and died instantly. Nothing anyone could have done would have made a difference before or whilst it happened and it's likely that the same applies here.
 
So, from what wagtail is saying, Daisy Berkley must also have dragged her horse out of a field,un fit and unprepared before taking it round Gatcombe where is died of a suspected heart attacK? What a load of cack!
FYI it is also possible for horses to show heart murmers one day and not the next. Heart murmers can be bought on from a virus or even stress. It is also entirely possible for a horse with a heart murmer to compete with no problems whatsoever.
To imply that the 2 people who have lost their horses due to an unforseen circumstance, had infact competed them in an unfit state is a disgrace.
Do you honestly think it is neccesary to get a vet to check your horse every time you want to compete/fast work at home?
If so your vets must love you, you must be their best customer!I have never heard such utter rubbish in my entire life!
I run an equestrian centre, we have horses we use for lessons older than 15 yrs old! They also compete! Maybe I should line them all up and shoot them as they must be way to past it to actually work!
 
Wagtail said:
It depends on how big the course was. Personally, I would, yes. But that is because my horses are pets as well as just horses. They are never sold on. I accept that not everyone views their horses this way however.
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you'd have a 5* EVERYTIME you went out to compete?

Blimey, your Vets must see you as a cash cow.
 
Wagtail said:
Maybe it's just me then. I always had a full 5 stage vetting either on purchase or before competing in anything more strenuous than dressage or local level show jumping. I would want to know my horse was more than healthy enough to cope with it. My mare had a 5 stage vetting and passed for competing at riding club level but not higher so I never pushed her higher than that. Her full bother on the other hand was vetted and fit for advanced eventing and so that is what he did.
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More money than horse sense! Have had horses fail a vet check and then pass some months later - learn to judge your horse by what you see and feel.

Sorry MelenR & Baggybreeches to hear of the loss of your horses a sad time for you both ((((HUGS))))
 
Wagtail - YOUR VET MUST LOVE YOU


££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
 
I am very sorry to hear of the death of this horse - always something you dread when setting out on a course but nothing can be done to prevent it.

As for competing an old horse and a horse "not being fit", is rather a silly comment to make. I do not ahve my horse 5 stage vetted every year - yep they have a general check over when they have their vaccinations, doesn't mean they won't drop down dead the next day though!

As far as I am aware as well it is generally the fitter horse (your top eventers, racehorses etc) who have heart murmurs (or varying grades) and they do not (in most cases) cause them any problems at all. Hundreds of horses out there have low grade heart murmurs, it doesn't mean they are necessarily more likely to have a heart attack than any other horse.

I lost a pony after a team chase - he broke down and died later on. Prior to that there was nothing physically wrong with him so I could not have forseen that would happen.

My horse is 20 now and I fully intend to continue competing him for as long as he wants to do it for. I would be devastated if something happened to him but i can live life thinking of what ifs. You'd never do anything!

My condolences to those who have lost their horses.
 
Wagtail said:
Obviously this 'elderly' horse was not fit enough or had a heart problem that meant that cross country was too much for him. There is a difference between competing an older fit horse at events where there is a heavy vet presence and checks, and the small riding club events where some people take out their old horse that has ben turned out 24/7 and ridden once a week. Not saying this was the case here, but it is a common enough occurance.
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My mare had a heart attack grazing in field at 18 years of age.... not nec anything to do with fitness. She was happily munching away, i went to get a cuppa, came back in the boil of a kettle and gone :-( quick as that.... still had grass poking out of her mouth.... well she was a sec d ;-)
Guess my point is it may have had nothing to do with the fact horse was popping a course , could just as easily been at home. When its you time , its your time.Its the hardest for those left behind..... what a way to go tho dear of him out having fun enjoying been loved and having a blast til the last breath. Personally I couldnt wish for any more for my horse xx
 
MelenR and Baggybreeches I just wanted to say how sorry I am for both your losses :(
BB it is obvious from your photo that your horse was in absolutely fantastic condition and I'm sure Tommy was too.

It must be a huge shock. I don't want this to sound insensitive, it's meant as a good thing, but I can only hope that mine go the same way. Doing something they love on a glorious day rather than a long drawn out decline in to old age. What a high they both went out on.
 
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