horse died at riding club hunter trial

Well......when I was 20, my loan pony died suddenly of a heart attack. She was fit and well- was exercised daily....infact, I was riding her when it happened. There were no warning signs. She was 9. It just sometimes happens.

FWIW.....I would rather a horse drop down dead suddenly ....than decline slowly.....
 
So sorry to both owners, RIP horses.
Baggybreeches, your horse looked fantastic, so keen and happy.
MelenR, i thought it was a lovely thing for Clodagh to say that your boy looked like he was having a ball right to the end. I hope you can take comfort in the fact that he was happy.
Kx
 
Having had Emerald on loan I can tell you that he would happily gallop along all day every day!
From having Emerald I then got to know Elaine and can hand on heart say that ALL her horses are fitter than most I know and are worked up to that fitness level correctly, sensibly and sensitively!
I can only wish both owners well and symapthise with their situations x
 
Wagtail said:
Maybe it's just me then. I always had a full 5 stage vetting either on purchase or before competing in anything more strenuous than dressage or local level show jumping. I would want to know my horse was more than healthy enough to cope with it. My mare had a 5 stage vetting and passed for competing at riding club level but not higher so I never pushed her higher than that. Her full bother on the other hand was vetted and fit for advanced eventing and so that is what he did.
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That's interesting. I have a RC combined training soon, I had better call the vet...
 
Dizzle said:
That's interesting. I have a RC combined training soon, I had better call the vet...
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You mean you don't have a vet on call the whole time. How self evidently obviously uncaring of you.
I personally have a 6* between the egg and spoon and the bending, but then I don't suppose you common lot even know what a 6* is. :)
 
skewbald_again said:
You mean you don't have a vet on call the whole time. How self evidently obviously uncaring of you.
I personally have a 6* between the egg and spoon and the bending, but then I don't suppose you common lot even know what a 6* is. :)
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OMG, I need a 6* I can't believe I've neglected my boy like this :( you must think me so cruel...

Is that Grand Prix egg and spoon?! :D
 
Just wanted to add my condolences to both MelenR and Baggybritches, I cannot even begin to know how you are feeling :(

As for Wagtail................................................ :confused:
 
Many many many horses have heart murmurs. They can be quiet and serious, loud and serious, quiet and harmless, or loud and harmless.

Our Spud developed one last year. Scared the hell out of us, and still does, but the vets are 99% sure that it's harmless even though it's loud. We got him fitter than he's ever been before last year, and as a result his heart now apparently has extra capacity when at rest. However, the only way to be 100% sure that it's harmless would be to ultrasound him, ecg him, and have him on a treadmill, but I'm guided by my vet and the other very experienced endurance vets who have vetted him since it developed who think further investigation is not necessary at the moment.

We're lucky in endurance riding in that the horses are checked by vets several times during the events, but even that's not an absolute guarantee that things won't go wrong. Most fatal heart problems in horses are very sudden valve ruptures and are completely symptomless beforehand. A vet could check the horse moments before and have no idea what was coming. My heart goes out to those that have lost horses this way and I hope that I never join them. But then, I guess none of us know when our time it up.

Nb Wagtail, if the little ex racehorse had the sinister 'could drop dead at any time' type of murmur, she shouldn't be doing dressage either. I know people whose horses have had that type of murmur and they've been advised to completely retire them, as the heart is as likely to fail walking along as it is jumping or cantering. Also, Spud's murmur disappears during the 'off season' when he's not fit, so a checkup before getting him fit would show nothing.
 
Very sorry to both MelenR and Baggybritches. Such a shock to you both, at least you have comfort in the fact they went doing what they loved. Sending my condolences.

As for vetting regularly I think its a major waste of money, anything can happen to horses as lets face it, they're horses. You'd think a 1200lb animal wouldn't be so fragile.

Never leave your horse in a bad mood, always give them an extra hug and pat goodnight as you don't know what will be your last moment with them. Don't miss the opportunity to say goodbye and cherish absolutely every moment you have with them as you never know if it's your last.
 
Baggybreeches said:
Yup it was the staying on while he did it that seemed to challenge us both! x
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You put my son on that daft old sod and sent them round a British Novice! He was a sweet and generous horse with a cheeky edge and I'm sad that he left you, but glad he did it while having a blast and with you there telling him he was a superstar :( :)

Rest In Peace Emmy x

I will get all mine checked for aneurisms first thing tomorrow and make a note to self not to look at any more pics of him - especially this one...
 
EstherYoung said:
Nb Wagtail, if the little ex racehorse had the sinister 'could drop dead at any time' type of murmur, she shouldn't be doing dressage either. I know people whose horses have had that type of murmur and they've been advised to completely retire them, as the heart is as likely to fail walking along as it is jumping or cantering. Also, Spud's murmur disappears during the 'off season' when he's not fit, so a checkup before getting him fit would show nothing.
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That was two years ago. She was given the all clear by the vet to compete at riding club level. Her heart murmur has been down graded this year. The vet is a Newmarket vet who okayed her. :)
 
Wagtail said:
Blimey. What is wrong with wanting to make sure that your horses can cope with what you are asking of them? An initial vetting with a check up every year. Why are people so averse to that? Had the mare on my yard not had the vetting and instead continued to compete, she would most likely be dead now. Why do you think it is so wrong to have them vetted?

Of course a vetting will not pickup every single thing, and horses can develop heart murmurs at any time in their lives. But these can be picked up by an annual check up.

And for people worried that the same thing might happen to their horse, I think reccommending a vetting and annual check ups is hardly an evil thing to do. It may well prevent other tragedies.
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I bought a 3 year old ex race horse straight out of training, and after some time turned away brought him back into work. At age 6 and 7 he was worked hard (he was a thug if not!), then as I had failed to sell him that autumn and I had exams he was roughed off that winter. He dropped dead of a heart attack in the January, the year he would have turned 8, following a GA. A PM showed a weakened heart valve that my vet said would NOT have even been apparent at a vetting. Thank goodness it didn't happen the summer before when I was working him hard, or if I had sold him and it had happened shortly after arriving at a new home. These things happen with horses, much like heart attacks aren't always detectable in people or related to age/fitness.
 
brighteyes said:
I will get all mine checked for aneurisms first thing tomorrow and make a note to self not to look at any more pics of him - especially this one...
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Oh gosh, that photo really brings a lump to my throat and a tear to my eye, but not merely because the poor boy has passed away, or how sad I am for BB's loss, but also for how absolutely beautiful, fit and happy he clearly is. If only all horses could be that way on their final day.

xx
 
I know of someone who lost a horse that they had purchased as a fit and ready to go eventer who she had vetted and passed with flying colours. Three weeks later she had a heart attack while jumping into the water on their first xc together. This was not picked up in the vet report.
 
I lost my 14h1" pony when he was only 11 - we had an autopsy done as he collapsed just after a SJ round and it was a heart attack. The vets said we could have had a vetting done before the SJ round and would not have known, there was no heart mumur, but a capilary burst and bled onto the Purkinji fibres (not sure of spelling) causing a heart attack. There was no way anyone could know. I feel very sorry for everyone who's lost a horse in this way, but at least the horse does not usually suffer.
 
What has a heart murmur got to do with a heart attack anyway. I'll tell you - very little. A murmur is due to a flow problem thru the heart And a heart attack is due to vessel disease. The problems are in the main unlinked. And I have never had a horse have an ECG even at a 5 stage vetting.
 
MelenR and Baggybritches... firstly i'm so sorry to hear of your loss, you must both be devastated *Hugs*

I'll be honest I havn't read every single post here but I have skim read them and by the sounds of things some people are suggesting getting a horse vetted on a frequent basis... The way I see a vetting is similar to getting your car MOT'd or even a person having a CRB check done in the work place, it is only valid for that ONE day, the day it passes. You could have a horse vetted the day before an event but anything can happen once the vet has walked away. Yes a vetting could show up something but it will only be show IF the vet spots it. Not everything is picked up on. It's like having your car MOT'd, yes it might pass but it can easily start will an oil leak on the way home... or someone can pass a CRB check but go out and commit a crime that evening and no one would know about it until the next time they had a CRB check...

I would and do have 'New' horses vetted (obviously before handing over my hard earned pennys) but I would never vet a horse that I had owned and which had already passed a vetting... I MOT my car once a year, I don't MOT it every time I take it out for a drive but I do do all of the maintenance checks, oil, water, tyre pressue etc... its the same with a horse, in fact a horse gets looked over in much more detail on a daily basis because for those who groom thoroughly every day go over every square inch of its body and know when there is a lump or bump... obviously we can't see the inside of our horses, but neither can a vet unless they scan and x-ray every square inch.

A vetting is only valid until the vet walks away, like an MOT is only valid until the car drives out of the garage...
 
Puppy said:
I bought a 3 year old ex race horse straight out of training, and after some time turned away brought him back into work. At age 6 and 7 he was worked hard (he was a thug if not!), then as I had failed to sell him that autumn and I had exams he was roughed off that winter. He dropped dead of a heart attack in the January, the year he would have turned 8, following a GA. A PM showed a weakened heart valve that my vet said would NOT have even been apparent at a vetting. Thank goodness it didn't happen the summer before when I was working him hard, or if I had sold him and it had happened shortly after arriving at a new home. These things happen with horses, much like heart attacks aren't always detectable in people or related to age/fitness.
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That is very true, Puppy. Not all heart conditions are detectable. But all we can do is our best. Many heart conditions are detectable like the one the mare at my yard has. At least her owner is aware of it and can manage it accordingly. The vet says there is no way she would cope with hard work as in racing but is absolutely fine in light work. If her owner hadn't had her vetted she would not have known that.

I am really sorry about what happened with your horse. Obviously in your case a vetting would not have helped.
 
Blitznbobs - absolutely. Two entirely different things. A serious kind of murmur can cause heart failure, but a heart murmur is not what killed the two poor horses referred to in this thread.

Wagtail wrote:
That was two years ago. She was given the all clear by the vet to compete at riding club level. Her heart murmur has been down graded this year. The vet is a Newmarket vet who okayed her.
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The 'grading' for heart murmurs is purely on their loudness, not their seriousness. The seriousness depends on which valves are leaking into which chamber and is a separate issue. If the vet's a decent vet, they can give you a reasonable degree of certainty as to whereabouts in the cycle the murmur is occurring, but the only way to tell for sure is to get them on a treadmill and ecg/ultrasound them.

Horses hearts are notoriously untidy in their operation, they're not little tight operations like people, they're large gallopin' pumps. As the horse gets fitter and the heart muscle increases in size, they get even more untidy, particularly at rest. You quite often find very fit horses with murmurs, or that drop beats left right and centre, because heart is so large and so fit that it doesn't have enough to do when the horse isn't gallopin'. TBs particularly are prone to them, as genetically they have very big hearts, to the point where actually you'd probably struggle to find a TB who doesn't drop beats and/or display a murmur when fit.

The fact that the mare's murmur has decreased when she lost fitness indicates that maybe it wasn't the serious type, and that it was a fitness related one instead. If it had been the serious 'drop dead at any moment' type, believe me the vet would not have passed her fit for riding club activities (which after all still require the mare to be fit enough to canter and jump safely).

The other reason the murmur could have decreased is if the original murmur was caused by a virus - sick horses often display murmurs too.
 
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