Horse economy shrinking?

[paddy555]

hi vis used to mean a workman's vest, for examples.

.

wrong tense! it still does for us. Workmans vests in summer which are peanuts and yellow workmans hi vis lovely warm padded jackets in winter. The difference is they come from the building suppliers not the saddlers. There is no word "horse" attached to them and therefore a lot lower price. It would be pointless to waste money.
My costs for my first horse (15hh) in 1974 were field and stable rent £5 a month. (all DIY of course, no electricity) hay 1 ton per year £40 a ton. Straw for bedding which was about 50p a bale I think. Sugar beet and h & p nuts, wormers, saddle soap and that was it. No shoeing costs, he was barefoot. No expectations of buying anything for the horse from the saddlers, he had a saddle, bridle and headcollar what else was there to need?

Life was a lot cheaper as we didn't have to pay for things like horse transport, you either rode there or stayed at home. Only the well off had lorries. No costs for broadband, computers and smart phones and mobile contracts. No costs for a telephone, it would have cost too much to have phone line put in.

 

[ycbm]

Me too 😁 Just got a great orange hi vis long sleeve polo for eleven quid, postage included, and I thought that was expensive

 

[Lloyd45]

I’m 49, my horse is 16, I ride about 5 x a week, he is kept diy grass livery or I couldn’t afford it. He will be my last horse. Grass livery is non existent nearly where I live as they are building everywhere, what was a quiet lane to ride on is now like a race track as people use it as rat run, we have loads of bridleways but with the influx of people more people are using them and don’t have a clue about horses, one person asked me the other day why I couldn’t ride somewhere else “hello it’s a bridleway”. It’s so sad to see the countryside going and a way of life changing 😞

 

[Tarragon]

So, I am 56 and remember pony filled fun days in Suffolk as a child and I now have two Exmoor ponies. I have never competed seriously so then, and now, is just the joy of hacking.
Interestingly enough I reckon that the cost of buying hasn't changed much, I am fairly sure that my first ponies were a few hundred pounds to buy and the two I have now were also a few hundred pounds.
I think there are two types of horsey people; those brought up in hard core horsey families who have lived and breathed horses from birth and those who just have the "bug" and find their own way into the horsey world. I think that the second group is the one that is in decline because there are:
1. Fewer riding schools and opportunities to ride, probably largely down to the attitude to risk and the "sue" culture
2. Fewer places to hack safely
3. bigger costs involved in competing (where have all the local gymkhanas gone? I loved those) and it all seems so serious now!
Mind you, my older pony has seen at least 3 local pony mad girls through their first stages over the years and now has a lovely young rider but even she only rides once a week at the most as she also does gymnastics, swimming, guides and netball, which is the norm for active (non horsey) families now I think. It doesn't leave much time!

 

[Sealine]

I’m 52 and my horse is 17. I expect he will be my last horse but that is for financial reasons rather than my health. It makes me sad to think that when he retires I probably won’t be able to hunt any more. My generation don’t tend to have good private pensions and I won’t get a state pension until I’m 67. I can’t bear the thought of working full time until I’m 67 and I don’t think I’ll have the energy to work full time and look after a horse in my 60’s. Not having a horse may allow me to reduce my working hours towards retirement age.

 

[Lloyd45]

I’m 52 and my horse is 17. I expect he will be my last horse but that is for financial reasons rather than my health. It makes me sad to think that when he retires I probably won’t be able to hunt any more. My generation don’t tend to have good private pensions and I won’t get a state pension until I’m 67. I can’t bear the thought of working full time until I’m 67 and I don’t think I’ll have the energy to work full time and look after a horse in my 60’s. Not having a horse may allow me to reduce my working hours towards retirement age.

That’s also one of my reasons I won’t get another one, my pension won’t cover horsey costs

 

[dreamcometrue]

I’m 63 and still working full time because I don’t get my state pension for another 3 years and I have a horse to keep. I will ride for as long as possible and would get another horse if my current one died or became unrideable . Giving up is not an option. Where else would I find this much peace, love and fun?

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

When you are 40/50/60 years of age of course you aren't going to have anymore horses. You buy a horse & have it for the next 20 years or so, so you really want to be 70/80 years plus & looking after a horse opr have to make arrangements for your horse to be looked after when you've turned your toes up?

We are on a small yard of 11 horses but several of us are multiple horse owners. The yard is regularly contacted by people wanting livery, We hear of various yards being sold off for building houses & all that means that there are more people wanting places on the yards.

 

[meleeka]

I think the decline in safe hacking is definitely changing the horse owner community and the yards that are desireable to keep horses on. Even someone like me who likes hacking on the lanes and has solid road hacking horses, is only really hacking on road at times that I know it will be quiet these days.

So I think people who mainly hacked and used to go to the comps/shows for a nice day out are dwindling. And this is making the local competition environment more competitive and serious than it has been in decades gone by.

That’s the case near me. There isn’t much hacking that doesn’t involve roads and horse numbers are just dwindling at an alarming rate. I don’t think youngsters are buying horses so much as there’s nowhere suitable to keep them.

 

[TPO]

When you are 40/50/60 years of age of course you aren't going to have anymore horses. You buy a horse & have it for the next 20 years or so, so you really want to be 70/80 years plus & looking after a horse opr have to make arrangements for your horse to be looked after when you've turned your toes up?

We are on a small yard of 11 horses but several of us are multiple horse owners. The yard is regularly contacted by people wanting livery, We hear of various yards being sold off for building houses & all that means that there are more people wanting places on the yards.

Not necessarily true. My mum gave a previous horse to me in 2008 and effectively gave up. She bought her next horse in 2013 aged 57, when she lost him she bought an ex racer 6wks after his last race and she had turned 60. She also took ownership of a just backed cob with "issues" last year aged 62. So now at 63 has 2 horses and a plan for her next "retirement" horse!

 

[windand rain]

I am 65 and bought a yearling filly for my birthday I would love to have another in a year or two but that might be pushing it as I will have to be still fit and able up to my 90s

 

[stormox]

Toby Zaphod - no more horses in your 40s 50s or 60s? What planet are you on? Lots if people ride as teenagers then give it up to have a family then go back to riding when the kids have left home.
I bought an unbroken 4yr old age 65 and am now 67 and doing RC competitions , xc, hack everyday, and unafil dressage and sj .

 

[lannerch]

When you are 40/50/60 years of age of course you aren't going to have anymore horses. You buy a horse & have it for the next 20 years or so, so you really want to be 70/80 years plus & looking after a horse opr have to make arrangements for your horse to be looked after when you've turned your toes up?

We are on a small yard of 11 horses but several of us are multiple horse owners. The yard is regularly contacted by people wanting livery, We hear of various yards being sold off for building houses & all that means that there are more people wanting places on the yards.

I beg to differ, my current horse is 16 on light hacking due to navicular, I am 52 and still want to do more , I event and would hate to think that was it.
So I have just bought myself a 2yo, she is my dream horse a beautiful buckskin athletic type, when she’s old enough to do serious work I will retire my oldy to grass livery. You are never to old to follow your dreams and have to quit.
People like horses are living longer. And I will continue to work as long as it takes to fund my passion.

 

[paddy555]

Toby Zaphod - no more horses in your 40s 50s or 60s? What planet are you on? Lots if people ride as teenagers then give it up to have a family then go back to riding when the kids have left home.
I bought an unbroken 4yr old age 65 and am now 67 and doing RC competitions , xc, hack everyday, and unafil dressage and sj .

I took the first para of Toby's post to be sarcastic and a joke that people would even think of giving up horses. Not sure now if it was meant to be funny or if it was serious? At 64 I have 9 so I think it is very funny.

 

[Orangehorse]

My sister had the right idea. She kept a horse until she was over 70 and then found the chores and riding too much, so she sold horse, trailer and everything, but she still rides as she goes out to a place that has wonderful hacking. She turns up, gets on the horse, has a lovely ride mostly away from roads, gets off the horse, gives over the money and goes home. She is 76 now and still rides every week.

I said that if mine got me to 65 he would be the last horse, he has and I am now starting to find the riding/chores quite hard work. It would also be quite nice to have more time to do other things with grandchildren rather than be tied to the clock every day for "stables." But horse is more or less OK so as long as he keeps going, I will.

 

[horsefeed]

Well in my area, I think people are expecting more and have now out priced themselves.

When I was growing up, very few people had a school to ride in, even my local RS taught on grass, which got very muddy in winter but you just didn't mind and got on with it.

Most privately owned horses where in DIY stabling or grazing on local farms for reasonable prices (compared to wages).

Grazing was 24/7 at most places but you accepted it would be a swampy mud pit and if you didn't like it you kept your horse in and rode it more.

You brought your own feed of basic pony nuts and chaff with oil and oats if they needed extra calories and you picked your hay up of the field in the autumn and stored it under a tarp and yes it want a bit mouldy sometimes but you soaked it and fed the mouldy stuff when they were out on the mud pit during the day.

People would get up at silly o'clock to turn out on mud pit to save a few pounds on bedding during the day!

Over the years its become expected and the norm to have schools, Show standard jumps, XC , all year dry and good quality grazing, livery package to include hay and feed which has to be of the best quality. They then want turn out or bring in as only want to visit there pony once day. All this costs considerably more to run and up keep.

Some yards now charge twice as much a week as I was paying 15 years a go for a month and wages simply haven't gone up by this amount.

Yards to survive have either had to adapt as people expected (and now have to charge to upkeep it) or more or have now closed.

We have now become a victim or our own expectations.

 

[Hollychops]

I must be the rarity in not giving up as i get older. I never had ponies as a child, it just wasn't affordable (plus i had very non-horsey parents). Now in my mid 50's i am madly saving for my 4th and probably last horse and will be hunting next year.

I think these days that there seems to be a culture of wanting everything now and not wanting to make sacrifices to get it. (I have 2 grown up daughters so i am not just guessing at this). I know some younger than me who the mere mention of saving for something is like asking them to walk barefoot, backwards to the north pole. just not doable. The horse world seems to be so much more expensive than 25 years ago and all the marketing is aimed at riders having this, that and the other to make us good horse owners/riders. Facilitiies just arent available either, i have been trying to find a decent place to ride again where i can go over everything again, but when i tried i got the horse that didnt move unless it had the biggest boot in the ribs or the 'you can ride so you can ride this one. He's new in and we need to see what he's like in the school'. I now travel over 30 miles just for a lesson!

Saying that i still love the horse world and next year cant come too soon, so i hope by the time i find my next one there will be plenty of affordable things for me to do and plenty of like minded riders to ride with/against.

 

[sport horse]

I was a teenager in the1960's and rode at a riding school once/week. However I hung about in every spare minute just to be about the ponies and to get a free bareback ride 200 yards to the field in a headcollar, Ride one lead 2! (Health and safety be aware no one ever got hurt but we did develop balance).
At 16 I was bought a small horse. It lived at grass and I did pony club etc. I had a saddle and bridle and that was it. I owned some jodphurs and a hat. That was it. I did not go out in the evenings - I stayed at home doing homework. That was it.
Aged 18 I left school and went to work in the city of London. 9 - 5.30 with a 1 1/2 hour journey each way. I joined my local riding club and my social life was evening talks on stable management, the odd mounted lessons and I started to go BS jumping. I travelled with a friend from the same livery yard. Friday evening were spent at the Riding Club field painting jumps till dark and up the pub for a half of lager - yes just one half. We never ate out, we never went to clubs (they did not exist except in the West End for the rich) but we did not feel we were deprived. In fact the friends from those days are still my friends and we meet regularly.
I met my husband at a horse show. When we married we were able to keep our horses at my parent's home - they had moved and managed to buy somewhere with a small paddock and we built stables. We bought our hay from the neighbouring farmer - we collected it. We went to the local mill to buy oats, barley and bran. There were no fancy packaged feeds in those days. We went to the local timber yard and sacked up woodshavings for bedding. We acquired a small trailer and sold horse manure and nearly covered our costs of keeping our horses! We both worked full time and did the horses before/after work. We never spent much money on social life - our friends came round and we cooked a meal.
In time we were lucky enough to purchase a small holding. We fenced every single bit of it ourselves with a mallet and hammer! We rebuilt all the buildings in time. Eventually we were able to do the house up. BUT our horses came first!
Now I am widowed but I still have horses - too many! I no longer ride but I have people around who do. Yes I have a fairly big, professional set up but it all started with total 100% committment, hard work and dedication to what we were doing.
I suggest that nowadays that single minded dedication either no longer exists or is knocked out of people very quickly?

 

[Antw23uk]

Im forty now and having just sold the horse who was my exit plan (I would have kept him until he was old and dead) I am left with a lovely 9 yr old mare but my hearts not in it anymore so she will go either this year or next and then I will be leaving the hobby and unlikely to return. The winters are naff, the summers are naff (ground too hard) and time, money and energy always seem to be heavy on my shoulders. Shame really as we have land and stables and I don't really know anything else BUT there has to be more to life than just horses and people change hobbies all the time, surely equestrianism isn't a life sentence!

 

[tallyho!]

The thing is there isn't enough inspiration anymore!

A lot of riders at the "top" abuse their horses. Some look positively deformed. I don't think it's fun anymore.... not like it was in the 80's (for me). You could ride anywhere, cars weren't that much of a problem and farmers were kind. You had great riders to look up to but not now. I think riding is abysmal at the top. I got put off sj somewhere in the noughties it was 'orrible. Dressage got weird. XC was no longer a fun country pursuit, you have to have money nowadays and horses that cost more than a house and of course, no one can ride without a flash and a sparkly wonky browband.

If it wasn't for Philippe Karl, I'd have given up yonks ago.

 

[JFTDWS]

I dunno sporthorse, I reckon you had a better social life than I do now I never go to pubs at all, and you'd have to drag me into a club having knocked me out first

 

[teapot]

We're considering this at work (I'm in the education/training sector) and we're seriously reevaluating what people want. There is a definite sense/feeling that people arn't willing to spend nearly as much on lessons and training as they once did and instead try to keep their own horse on the cheap, without the necessary education and experience. Moreover there's a feeling (and it could be wrong) that people are not prepared to put in the hard work to become true horsemen/women. The moment there's a problem someone squinnies rather than trying to learn the skills to work through it.

From a personal point of view the new exam system is a welcome relief but it's not cheap, and neither's training!

 

[catkin]

I must be the rarity in not giving up as i get older. I never had ponies as a child, it just wasn't affordable (plus i had very non-horsey parents). Now in my mid 50's i am madly saving for my 4th and probably last horse and will be hunting next year.

Sounds the ideal age to be looking for the next horse .
I backed my young Fellboy at 57 though I think that's the last time for me in dealing with baby shenanigans.
There was a fabulous thread on here a while back all about 'older' riders and what they were doing with their horses

The thing is there isn't enough inspiration anymore!

A lot of riders at the "top" abuse their horses. Some look positively deformed. I don't think it's fun anymore.... not like it was in the 80's (for me). You could ride anywhere, cars weren't that much of a problem and farmers were kind. You had great riders to look up to but not now. I think riding is abysmal at the top. I got put off sj somewhere in the noughties it was 'orrible. Dressage got weird. XC was no longer a fun country pursuit, you have to have money nowadays and horses that cost more than a house and of course, no one can ride without a flash and a sparkly wonky browband.

If it wasn't for Philippe Karl, I'd have given up yonks ago.

I agree, I don't like the top end of horse sports much.
But I'm now old enough to not care......

I've gone full-circle and pretty much reverted to that 'pony-mad child' frame of mind and just get on with enjoying my pony It's great

 

[paddy555]

The thing is there isn't enough inspiration anymore!

A lot of riders at the "top" abuse their horses. Some look positively deformed. I don't think it's fun anymore.... not like it was in the 80's (for me). You could ride anywhere, cars weren't that much of a problem and farmers were kind. You had great riders to look up to but not now. I think riding is abysmal at the top. I got put off sj somewhere in the noughties it was 'orrible. Dressage got weird. XC was no longer a fun country pursuit, you have to have money nowadays and horses that cost more than a house and of course, no one can ride without a flash and a sparkly wonky browband.

If it wasn't for Philippe Karl, I'd have given up yonks ago.

I can so relate to your comments, Sport horse, I had forgotten the wood yard and having to bag up shavings. Our story is very similar and it was all dedication and hard work after working all day.

Not sure why you need inspiration? tallyho! whyt does it matter what top riders are doing? I remember watching riders such as David Broome, Harvey Smith, the Edgars etc but I didn't look up to them and they didn't inspire me or make any difference to my desire (or actually obsession) to have my own horse. I wanted him because I wanted to ride and be around horses. I agree you have to have sufficient money to pay for the upkeep of a horse but you don't need a horse costing more than a house. I use a hackamore so have no use for the flash and I use the same browband that I used 40 years ago. It is a leather one covered in green and white plastic. (those of the era will remember them) It has been carried forward to each of my riding horses. It was on my first horse and is now on my last one.

 

[tallyho!]

Tsk. Not me paddy, the generations that came after me... but then that’s just the way I see it, and no I can’t see what’s inspiring about top end riders today (apart from a few I really do like!) compared to back then. Rose tinted’s on maybe...

 

[ycbm]

The thing is there isn't enough inspiration anymore!

A lot of riders at the "top" abuse their horses. Some look positively deformed. I don't think it's fun anymore.... not like it was in the 80's (for me). You could ride anywhere, cars weren't that much of a problem and farmers were kind. You had great riders to look up to but not now. I think riding is abysmal at the top. I got put off sj somewhere in the noughties it was 'orrible. Dressage got weird. XC was no longer a fun country pursuit, you have to have money nowadays and horses that cost more than a house and of course, no one can ride without a flash and a sparkly wonky browband.

If it wasn't for Philippe Karl, I'd have given up yonks ago.

I remember as a child watching Ryan's Son, Mattie Brown, and Pennewood Forge Mill on the TV every night for the week of The Horse of the Year Show, 9.25 after the BBC news, and believing that it was possible for an ordinary girl to strike lucky and find a horse that would take me to those heights. Looking at the young showjumpers now which are changing hands for massive amounts of money as untried youngsters, nobody can dream those dreams any more, can they?

It's a great loss, I think

 

[Snowfilly]

I think a big part of it is the lack of opportunity to see horse sport on TV.

I used to work in the sport and leisure industry and it was amazing to see the boost minority sports got when they were on the TV, or GB won a medal. Cycling is a great example of this, people see it and are inspired or a kid watches and thinks 'that could be me.' Women's boxing after the 2012 games was another one.

Now, there's lot of horse sport to watch online but if you don't know if you'll like it, you won't seem it out. A kid might have seen Hickstead or HOYS by chance and been inspired but they won't know to look for it.

 

[tristar]

Not necessarily true. My mum gave a previous horse to me in 2008 and effectively gave up. She bought her next horse in 2013 aged 57, when she lost him she bought an ex racer 6wks after his last race and she had turned 60. She also took ownership of a just backed cob with "issues" last year aged 62. So now at 63 has 2 horses and a plan for her next "retirement" horse!

go mum go

great opportunity to use my favourite saying ....... never say die


of course the best riders are in their 60`s 70`s

 

[LaurenBay]

I just don't think the younger generation can afford a Horse without sacrificing everything else. I work full time and really really struggled time wise when I had a Horse on DIY. I couldn't afford to have assisted jobs daily so most of the time I was spending every minute if there and rushing around. I didn't have a partner and lived at home so costs were low and I was lucky that my parents did not ask much rent from me, I also didn't have to feel guilty about spending my time at the yard. I was exhausted and panicked about emergency bills as I just couldn't afford to pay them, parents bailed me out on a few occasions.

Once I had retired her, things became easier as she lived out and I job shared with another lady. I saved quite a bit of money (gave most of it to parents!) and I met someone and moved in with him and his child. My Horse was PTS in Nov (due to medical reasons, not money) and I had to admit the financial relief was huge. We are now saving to get a mortgage together and our time is spent with each other, dog walking, days out with child. I generally don't know how I coped before and realise just how much I was rushing around. I miss my Horse like mad, but there is no way I can afford both a Horse and a mortgage, it just wouldn't be fair to my partner.

I now share 3 days a week (although owner is happy for me to do more) and that suits me much more.

 

[Tarragon]

The thing is there isn't enough inspiration anymore!
If it wasn't for Philippe Karl, I'd have given up yonks ago.

I am currently having lessons with someone who is a keen PK follower. I decided that I needed to really go back to basics (not that I was very far advanced but I wanted to do it properly!) and I am finding these methods so enlightening and refreshing. I am not sure what he would make of me and my Exmoor pony but one day I would perhaps consider taking the pony to one of his clinics