Horse has EXTREME ‘herding’ problem?

[Equidarby]

My elderly mare (late 20’s) is in with a friends younger mare
My friends mare seems to have an extreme herding problem, she will herd my old mare for ages making her walk round and round and round constantly. Its just the two of them in the field so there’s no issue with dominance. My old mare won’t retaliate in any way so will just walk and walk and the trot and canter to get away but the other mare just keeps herding her constantly.

they will walk round and round the field for ages until the younger mare eventually gives up. (Eventually)

she doesn’t do it when my friend is up as the mare then knows it’s feed time.

Has anybody ever experienced this or knows why she’s doing it? i don’t really want to split them up but is there any way of stopping it? I’m worried my mare is going to end up hurt.

thanks so much for reading!!

 

[M&M&G]

I'm no expert but to me that sounds like dominance. My friends elderly horse was in a large herd and was no 1 in the herd for many years. He then lost his status as he got older and a couple of the younger ones kept herding to keep him out of the herd. Sad to see but natural instinct I guess.

 

[meleeka]

Do they live out full time?

Can you separate them with electric fence, even as a temporary solution to see if it breaks the habit? I feel sorry for your old mare

 

[Red-1]

Sounds like your friend's horse needs more entertainment that you old horse can provide. I would be providing the older one with a quieter companion or trying another younger one into the mix, to see if that would provide the play the younger one needs.

 

[Clodagh]

I’d certainly split them up, why it’s happening is secondary to the fact that it is. Poor old horse being driven around.

 

[Equidarby]

I will add, there was a third horse in with them a few months ago. The mare would always get in between my mare and the other horse. It’s like a ‘she’s mine’ type a thing almost?! Every time they would run around, the ‘herding mare’ would run at my mare and not the other horse who was playing with her. If that makes sense?!

 

[Red-1]

It does sound as if your old mare needs alternative arrangements, for her wellbeing.

 

[Equidarby]

Thank you for the suggestions so far, I definitely prefer them to be in a herd rather than solitary but of course I’ll do what’s necessary for my mare and we do have the ability to split them up so I will do so even if temporary in an attempt to break the habit

 

[Arzada]

You need to separate them. There is no way your elderly mare should have to endure being driven around. It is dominance. If the young horse wasn't dominant it wouldn't be happening. They both need different companion/s.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Definitely a dominance thing. Your mare is being picked on and is too polite to put the youngster in her place.

 

[Equidarby]

They’ve been companions for a good 5 years which makes it so strange. But the younger mare is just taking the herding too far now and with my mares age I don’t want her getting hurt

 

[Highmileagecob]

Young mare has reached the stage in her life where she is making a bid for top status. If your mare were to fight back and give her a walloping it would stop. If you are able to split them up, I think your mare would appreciate the peace and quiet. Hope you reach a solution.

 

[Bradsmum]

I have this. 16.3 TBx herds the very elderly 13h Sec C. They live out 24/7, have lived together 10 years but most of the time they are separated by an electric fence to give her some peace. Occasionally I put them out together for a short period but the older she gets, the shorter the time together is.

 

[stangs]

Dominance theory has been repeatedly disproven in horses… There is no “top horse” in bands”; that’s anthropomorphism.

Young horse sounds bored out of her mind. What Red-1 said - they need more suitable companions.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

You need to separate them. This is no way your elderly mare should have to endure being driven around. It is dominance. If the young horse wasn't dominant it wouldn't be happening. They both need different companion/s.

This.


We had an older mare and a young one in a herd of 4 with 2 other mares. They fought for dominance of the herd, when it got to actually kicking each other (no shoes), we separated the herd into 2 pairs. It was a nuisance because we haven't really enough grass to have 2 fields in use at the same time but needed to do it for their own safety.

 

[Equidarby]

Thanks everyone, I’ll have to speak to my friend about how we can split them up. We do potentially have a new horse coming who may be a suitable companion for the younger mare.

 

[poiuytrewq]

It’s a tough one isn’t it. I mean tough as in probably a pita bit tough rather as in which decision to make.
I’ve been a bit worried my new horse has been doing it to my old one. I *think it’s just at getting in time though. I’ve been watching a lot incase but so far it seems fine the rest of the time.
I think you do need to separate as everyone else says sadly

 

[Clodagh]

Dominance theory has been repeatedly disproven in horses… There is no “top horse” in bands”; that’s anthropomorphism.

Young horse sounds bored out of her mind. What Red-1 said - they need more suitable companions.

That’s weird. Sitting and watching my stable herd of 7 mares and geldings I’d have said my hunter was definitely top horse. No one drank from the trough while she did, she went to the trough and they all followed. They queued behind her. She moved them away from me while I was poo picking. Surely that is dominance? I doubt herds are run as a democracy.

 

[milliepops]

That’s weird. Sitting and watching my stable herd of 7 mares and geldings I’d have said my hunter was definitely top horse. No one drank from the trough while she did, she went to the trough and they all followed. They queued behind her. She moved them away from me while I was poo picking. Surely that is dominance? I doubt herds are run as a democracy.

i've watched my herd of 5 have a little switcheroo now and then when a new one was introduced but they always seem to settle with Millie on top. Similarly to your experience, everyone gives way and she can move the others around with just a mean glance She is definitely running a dictatorship!

I think i'd also look to separate them to give the oldie some peace.

 

[Xmasha]

Dominance theory has been repeatedly disproven in horses… There is no “top horse” in bands”; that’s anthropomorphism.

Young horse sounds bored out of her mind. What Red-1 said - they need more suitable companions.

I’m pretty sure my horses haven’t read the research that disputes hierarchy
Finn is top dog . No one messes with him . He eats first / he drinks first / he comes in first . Because he chooses too . One look from him and the others stand well back and patiently wait their turn .

OP , your old girl needs a new companion. Hope you get sorted

 

[Peglo]

My old Haffie used to walk in laps of the field when her sweet itch got bad. I have no idea why but my TB started following her. The TB now decides when she wants to do laps and herds the haffie but luckily it doesn’t last more than max 10 minutes. They are both old though.
I think I too would separate yours as it sounds very unfair to your mare. Even if you took her out of the field for half the day and let them back in together the other half. (Unless of course that makes the younger one worse when they are reunited)

interesting about there not being a hierarchy with horses. My TB has always been at the top. She gets the food pile she wants. She moves all the other ponies when she feels like it. She gets the run of the field anyway.

 

[ycbm]

Dominance theory has been repeatedly disproven in horses… There is no “top horse” in bands”; that’s anthropomorphism.

None of the horses I have owned has ever read that book.
.

 

[Sir barnaby]

My gelding is was turned out with a mare all winter no problem, when another mare was put into adjacent field he herded my mare, around the field so she couldn’t get near new mare. It lasted a day then he settled down but he would put his head down and drive her away if she went near new horse, I had put her hay on the other side of the field and so she would stay at the hay. new mare has gone home now and we are back to normal. It was very strange behaviour and I’ve never seen him do it before with other horses that go next to him.

 

[irishdraft]

My mare used to do this with my 2 youngsters even when they were adults she always chivied them round asserting her authority but was never agressive. She was definitely alpha mare .

 

[honetpot]

Dominance theory has been repeatedly disproven in horses… There is no “top horse” in bands”; that’s anthropomorphism.

Young horse sounds bored out of her mind. What Red-1 said - they need more suitable companions.

I have mine in herds around my house so I can see them most of the time, and watch who does what, and if you alter the field mates, what happens. I have had two walkers, they are usually young horses and it's caused by anxiety, they are constantly on their guard, trying to protect their friend, they need a more a assertive companion, not dominant, a bit like Fletcher from Porridge that knows the score, that allows them to drop the patrol. They keep control by just screwing their face, and body language.
Two is a bad number because the young horse can never fully rest their alertness. Three is good, because two will rest, and one will rest a leg and keep watch. Your two will both be exhausted. I had one that could be a devil if he didn't have a boss pony, they are just very, 'unhappy'. I have a boss pony out on loan who is 12 hands babysitting an anxious youngster, they have other ponies but he will only relax and settle with him, they have tried others. Boss pony is very self contained, not aggressive but is not really bothered about anything that goes on around him, so silly warmblood can relax.

 

[milliepops]

the thing about needing a boss is interesting. My welsh has historically been all mouth and no trousers... but PLENTY of mouth, she strikes out at strange horses and starts fights. Now she is in with the other 4, she has a boss, and she seems more content. She doesn't have a mate yet but due to her odd past i am not sure that she ever will, but she has stopped picking fights and is gradually integrating with the herd more and more.

My loan horse probably needs a boss horse too, he is slightly bolshy but quite insecure - as my trainer put it, he has put himself at the front of the herd and then had a sh*t fit! unfortunately my best boss is busy policing the other mares i think the time has come to put both boys in together and see if the steady eddie 4yo can help him to settle more.

 

[spotty_pony]

When I still had my mare (sadly lost her last year aged 29) I tried her out with my gelding and my friend’s gelding. My boy gave himself a splint herding hurler about

 

[spotty_pony]

When I still had my mare (sadly lost her last year aged 29) I tried her out with my gelding and my friend’s gelding. My boy gave himself a splint herding her about so in the end I separated him and put my mare with my friend’s gelding as they seem to get on well and this worked well. I did put them all together again sometimes when I was around to keep an eye on them and they were ok like this.

 

[ponynutz]

Yes, I have seen this behaviour. And then it escalated to my horse and other's on the yard coming in constantly with scratches and cuts where there were two who wanted to be dominant/others got fed up with her. Mine has a permanent scar on her face now where she was kicked by something with back shoes on so I'd say it's a cause for concern.

Mine was then moved to a smaller field with different companions and then to a small field by herself because it kept happening. As others have said looks like dominance.

I think they need to be split up too

(Edited for spelling and grammar)

 

[Caol Ila]

My old horse was a chronic herder. Spent years on individual turnout because it was uncontrollable. She would choose a horse, then relentlessly herd it around the field and (if was a group) violently attack any other horse that came near it. In the last two years of her life, she mellowed enough to be turned out with one horse and not make its life too miserable, but she still made it clear that her buddy was not allowed to be friends or interact with the horses on the other side of the shared fenceline.

The dominance thing with horses is interesting. I get what stangs is saying. It's not a strict pecking order, but more amorphous and contextual. Mark Rashid has a lot to say about this stuff, which fits in with my observations. In a situation where resources like space, food, water are somewhat finite (most domestic set-ups), you will have horses who are more aggressive about guarding those resources than others. However, that might not be the same individual who the other horses follow when they move from one place to another. The most aggressive horse isn't necessarily the 'leader.' Nor are the relationships totally linear. Horse A can push horse B around, B can push C, but sometimes C can push A.