horse homeopathy? :)

tallyho! said:
Homeopathy is provided by the NHS as a valid service and is well known to help relieve and cure many symptoms and is recommended by NICE.
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But funnily enough the national health service is a service so does to some degree have to provide things their 'clients' want.. Not necessarily what is good for their physical health.

Yes I have seen homeopathy 'used' in nhs patients. Still doesn't mean it has any efficacy whatsoever :rolleyes:

I see others have covered your rather ignorant statements about vaccines :rolleyes:
 
tallyho! said:
JFTD, I too am familiar with how vaccines work. I shouldn't really believe in homeopathy because of my background in medicine but I know it works and therefore I use it. I'm not forcing anyone else to.

I just think principles are similar (treat like with like) except you are not going to kill someone with homeopathy but you can with vaccines and neither does the body develop antibodies with homeopathic vaccines since why it is dismissed and I can't claim they are effective. I am saying that it uses the same principles. No, I would not choose homeopathic vaccines over normal vaccines but there are certain vaccines I would avoid. The potency is real, so is the risk of mortality.
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tallyho, I'm not saying you shouldn't believe in homeopathy if you choose to - that really isn't my business. I'm just trying to clarify the scientific concepts for anyone else reading - if the science if accurate then it is up to the reader to decide between the claims of science and the claims of homeopathy.

Vaccines are preventative medicine - not treatment - that is one difference between vaccination and the "treating like with like" of homeopathy. It is an entirely different concept to use a lessened form of the same disease to prime the immune system, than using the same disease / trigger to treat an existing disease.

Vaccines undergo rigorous testing before they become available. Yes there are always risks - but these are extremely rare in licensed vaccines. Unfortunately, with any new substance you expose yourself to, there is always a risk of an adverse reaction - the same as if you eat a nut for the first time, or use a skin product, or take a new drug (pharmaceutical or "natural").

Certainly it is wise for certain individuals to avoid certain vaccines - e.g. if you are immuno-compromised, you won't be offered the BCG vaccine again TB, because it is a weakened, live strain of TB which can infect severely immuno-compromised individuals. This one of the reasons why most modern vaccines are based on specific molecules from the disease, not the entire bug. But as a general rule, if vaccines are available, they've been very carefully tested to ensure their safety. The same is not true of alternative medicines.
 
Oberon said:
Mostly - they just buy a little time or manipulate the disease process to give the patient's body the chance to fix itself.

One might consider that a placebo too?
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I don't see how - a placebo has no biological effect, other than the psychological. A drug which enables the host immune system to respond to the disease, by buying time, or manipulating the disease process, or by any other means, is having a biological effect - and it will improve clinical outcomes when compared to a placebo in a scientific trial.
 
tallyho! said:
Here are some recommendations from nice.
http://www.nice.org.uk/Search.do?x=...hy&newsearch@@true&page@@&SORTORDER=BESTMATCH
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And you obviously check your links closely :rolleyes:

These are not recommendations of using homeopathic remedies in medecine. Taking one of your examples at random - the eczema document, the only mention of homeopathy in the entire pdf is

1.5.9.1 Children with atopic eczema and their parents or carers should be
informed that the effectiveness and safety of complementary
therapies such as homeopathy, herbal medicine, massage and
food supplements for the management of atopic eczema have not
yet been adequately assessed in clinical studies.
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And this is your evidence for homeopathy? :confused: :rolleyes:
 
And from the next link, re inducing labour, the only mention of homeopathy is:

1.4.2.1 Healthcare professionals should inform women that the available
evidence does not support the following methods for induction of
labour:
• herbal supplements
• acupuncture
• homeopathy
• castor oil
• hot baths
• enemas
• sexual intercourse
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i met a German vet ages ago who was hugely in favour of homeopathics, and despaired at the blinkered approach to them over here. He told me that there's 1 thing in particular (drats, can't remember what it was) for which homeopathy is the standard first response treatment, and works perfectly.
anyway... i've posted this before but just in case it helps... i realise this wasn't 'double blind' etc etc but it convinced me, and my vet was surprised/impressed.
years ago i had a pensioned-off eventer who had a recurrent abscess on the point of his jaw. three different courses of antibiotics from the vet (who examined it each time) did not clear it... it'd disappear for about 2.5-3 months then return. greeny/yellow pus, stink, the works. i poulticed it, squeezed it, yadda yadda, it would seem to be eradicated by that and antibiotics but would then return. this happened repeatedly, every 3 months.
the horse was about 17 by then and i had no wish at all to put him through a general anaesthetic, but my vet suspected it was an infected tooth or infected jawbone (i can't remember which) so needed opening and scraping to clear it permanently. i reluctantly booked him in for the op the next week. fwiw this was going to cost £1k plus iirc...
meanwhile i mentioned it to a friend who had studied equine homeopathy extensively and she recommended Silicea, at 1mg dosage. i ordered it from Ainsworths in London. it cost me about £5... Silicea is supposed to help with pushing foreign bodies out etc.
I postponed the operation, explained the situation to the vet, and commenced 'treatment' with silicea.
the abscess cleared up completely and never returned. on his next visit i asked the vet to check the horse and he agreed that there was nothing there to treat, no need for the operation.
coincidence in the timing? maybe, but maybe not. either way, i'm very glad i tried it.
 
And it continues...

1.8 Alternative and complementary therapies
1.8.1 Do not offer homeopathy, phytotherapy or acupuncture for treating
LUTS in men.
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Again, the only mention of homeopathy in your 'recommendations' from NICE, this time regarding UTIs.
 
From the first link

"The following treatments are not recommended for the management of OME:
• antibiotics
• topical or systemic antihistamines
• topical or systemic decongestants
• topical or systemic steroids
• homeopathy..."
 
Other therapies
Do not use any of the following to treat hyperbilirubinaemia:
...
• traditional Chinese medicine
• acupuncture
• homeopathy.
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Not liking this for proof of efficacy to be honest...

OK, so out of all 8 documents on that link, EVERY mention of homeopathy is as something NOT to do :confused:
 
onemoretime said:
sorry to butt in on this lengthy post but is "Rescue Remedy" homeopathy? If so a lot of people use it to settle horses in competitions.
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Not really, it also contains brandy which in high enough quantities would indeed help lower stress ;) :D

Seriously, bach flower remedies aren't true homeopathy as they don't follow other homeopathic precepts such as the law of similars or the belief that curative powers are enhanced by shaking and repeated diluting ("succussion").

Systemic reviews of clinical trials on bach flower remedies have yet to find any efficacy beyond placebo :)
 
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JFTD said:
ahh but your presence, no matter how briefly, completes the "usual suspect" quota for this thread, so it can now die in peace, whenever its time to die comes :)
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BangGun.jpg


you dead!:D:D:D
 
Ah man, I killed the thread...

I really wanted to get into water memory and frequency and how the sun talks to the earth and how we can tune into frequency medicine and light healing and stuff.... Oh and indigo children and the new wave and the third eye and all that.... Dang it.
 
SarahRicoh said:
Moomin- i have! My horse was diagnosed with liver failure... Vets said she couldnt be helped so noedicine. I gave her milk thistle tablets.. She was cured after so many months (vets took blood then she passed 5* vetting)
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How are milk thistle tablets homeopathic? Milk thistle is a herb that contains a substance called silymarin, which has been proven to help with some liver problems (in dogs anyway), and is now produced as a licensed drug (Hepatocyl).

This is actually a great example of how science based medicine works. A traditional remedy is tested and actually found to be effective. Scientists work out which substance in the herb is responsible for its effects. Produce drug containing only the active ingredient to allow better dosing and safety. Does this sound like "big pharma" suppressing herbal medicine to you?

Unfortunately homeopathy failed at the first step. It is a traditional remedy that was tested and found to be ineffective.

PS Your horse's liver might have got better anyway.
 
I am amazed how vitriolic some people can get about a subject they clearly know absolutely nothing about, this much is obvious from their comments. If homeopathy was based purely on placebo effect, then it wouldn't work on children and animals which it clearly does. Surely the point is this: inform yourself (or appoint a professional homeopath)try it and if it works for you great, if it doesn't don't use it. Simple!

Remember: Modern medicine is wonderful but it doesn't have all the answers, it is surely best to keep an open mind.
 
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