digitalangel
Well-Known Member
fattylumpkin - i dont really have a choice. its either this or he eats a bullet now because it will be a long and arduous road to get the breeder to take him back. But the wheels have been put in motion in any case.
horse just bolted 5 miles down the road
- Thread starter digitalangel
- Start date
Booboos
Well-Known Member
Sorry but I don't think this is right. 'A priori' is knowledge arrived at purely through reason (deductive) as opposed to 'a posteriori', that is knowledge arrived at through experience (inductive). So 'all kittens are young cats' is a priori, but 'there are three kittens in my kitchen' is a posteriori.
Could you mean 'prior knowledge'? Not sure this would matter anyway as I think that animal owners have strict liability with respect to the actions of their animals, i.e. horses are flight animals so the possibility of flight is known to all horse owners and accepted when purchasing any horse.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your correction
I have seen the term used, it seems incorrectly, in the sense I used it.My point was that it is not normal for horses to bolt through multiple fences, nor to travel on for another five miles to a major road once they have done so. The insurers might well be able to fight a liability claim on that basis. But knowing the horse has already done it once, neither they nor the owner would have a leg to stand on if it did it again and killed or injured people.
Thankfully the owner has more sense than to take that risk in spite of the posters insisting that the horse needs to be turned out.
Last edited:
Rose Folly
Well-Known Member
Really sorry to read of your experience today. Horrid for you, and you'll be all shaken up.
Have got to go out, but what Abacus said on Page 1 makes sense. Start again - very very slowly. Keep him stabled until he's really settled, and meanwhile, as you have other horses, get them used to each other with stable doors between them. When he does go out, hack out first with another horse and, after a good tiring ride, turn them loose together (letting the older, wiser one loose first).
You've had a horrid scare, but so has he. Horses often behave completely out of character in new surroundings. You said 'straight from the breeder'. Perhaps he's never even been away from home before. Give him a chance. My bet is that things will improve - just slowly, slowly, slowly. And give that poor knee time to recover too.
Have got to go out, but what Abacus said on Page 1 makes sense. Start again - very very slowly. Keep him stabled until he's really settled, and meanwhile, as you have other horses, get them used to each other with stable doors between them. When he does go out, hack out first with another horse and, after a good tiring ride, turn them loose together (letting the older, wiser one loose first).
You've had a horrid scare, but so has he. Horses often behave completely out of character in new surroundings. You said 'straight from the breeder'. Perhaps he's never even been away from home before. Give him a chance. My bet is that things will improve - just slowly, slowly, slowly. And give that poor knee time to recover too.
MadBlackLab
Well-Known Member
No horses should not bolt through multiple fences and carry on for 5 miles but we have domasticated horses that is against their natural instinct so where do we stop with 'a horse shouldn't'
fattylumpkin
Well-Known Member
I hope it's all resolved quickly, one way or another, and in the meantime I'll be sending you vibes! Stay safe
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I don't understand your point? My comment was about public liability??
bensababy
Well-Known Member
The force is not with that one for sure!
Fellewell
Well-Known Member
The only appaloosa-specific disease i was aware of was PSSM/EPSM and they told me both parents had tested negative. i held off buying him/viewing him again until i knew the results of the test. Im off to google appaloosa ERU. Ive had warmbloods most of my life, a few TB's and ponies too. Never had an appy before but so i guess i lack knowledge there.
Vet not coming till tomorrow now
He stuck like glue to the turnout pen gate for most of the time today, so hes taking comfort in being close to other horses. Thats OK but i kinda would like to ride his ' buddy ' at some point and said buddy is starting to get fed up of being in most of the time
It's just something to be aware of. If his world is shades and outlines I expect he'd rather they were familiar ones. He seems very good to box/travel and when you viewed he was stabled. I cared for a horse with ERU and she spent most of her time in a poorly lit stable. This was years ago though I expect science has moved on.
I bet you could use a good night's sleep
Last edited:
mon
Well-Known Member
We once bought a so called kids pony from an auction which then turned into a nightmare, pulled away by putting shoulder in to you, bucked and was nasty to catch, but once a walker on footpath said he had worried him, no option but meat man, as couldn't do with that responsibility as once informed of dangerous animal then an added liability.
meesha
Well-Known Member
My chap I said about earlier who has jumped out and taken off/bolted is an appy. From what I have seen from mine and others they are often intelligent, mine is bold and brave but friends is more spooky etc. I would be tempted to try him again with a friend in the paddock, make sure there is no reason for him to leave, no potential friends just out of sight, plenty of food in paddock, no visible exits. If you are going away the weekend I would try it tomorrow and the next day before you go and then after vet has been leave sedalin at yard Just in case.
Not sure where u r in the country but my fields are very secure and lead onto lane etc no main road, I also have retired mare he would never have to be parted from so before u decide to pts if appropriate contact me, I am not judging if you do pts but just offering other options.
Take care
Not sure where u r in the country but my fields are very secure and lead onto lane etc no main road, I also have retired mare he would never have to be parted from so before u decide to pts if appropriate contact me, I am not judging if you do pts but just offering other options.
Take care
texas
Well-Known Member
Lovely offer meesha. Good luck DA.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
Many many years ago when I was a late teen my horse jumped out of his field and ran back to his old home, He was hit by a car the driver died and the horse spent over an hour in agony waiting for a vet to shoot it. All caused because I didnt expect him to be bother about moving (young and naive me, first horse rode him from his old home to his new one so he knew his way back) I now never take them to a new home without using enclosed transport. This was a very sensible settled horse that decided to go home as a trained showjumper he cleared a 6ft fence and was gone in minutes. very sad circumstance but one that with increasing road traffic and less tolerance is even more likely now. There is nothing wrong with putting to sleep an unwanted horse there are not thousands of horse gurus that will or can deal with quirky horses and there are a lot of problem horses whose lifestyle can only be guaranteed by those willing to pts if they cant keep their charge. All those horrified at the thought please think carefully about it if you couldnt keep your horse what would you do there is no market there is a great likelihood of bottom end horses ending up in hands that through ignorance or neglect will suffer horrendously. When you can buy a horse for less than you would pay for a bar of chocolate just how committed do you think those owners are going to be. We have already seen sensational stories of people rescuing from the meat man just for those poor animals to end up in very dire straights or the rescuers looking for good homes for them these homes just dont exist there is probably at the moment about 10 horses for every good home available what would you do with the rest.
My dangerous horse will live with me until I can no longer keep him well when although he is only young he will be shot.
OP you are a saint to even try to help him but if it comes to him having to stay with you as the breeders wont have him back then it is purely your decision and if PTS is the thing that fits for both of you so no one gets hurt then do so with my blessing it is a brave and sensible decision. Not one taken lightly but you didnt take on the responsibility of a dangerous to himself horse you thought you had a nice youngster to bring on and get going. To put in non emotional terms if you bought a car that the brakes failed and were lucky enough to survive you wouldnt drive it again until it was either fixed if economically viable or scrapped and melted down. If he had been a car you would have returned forthwith the law is the same for a horse but people become all holier than thou because it is a sentient being There are far worse things in life for animals than a dignified death regardless of age or reason
My dangerous horse will live with me until I can no longer keep him well when although he is only young he will be shot.
OP you are a saint to even try to help him but if it comes to him having to stay with you as the breeders wont have him back then it is purely your decision and if PTS is the thing that fits for both of you so no one gets hurt then do so with my blessing it is a brave and sensible decision. Not one taken lightly but you didnt take on the responsibility of a dangerous to himself horse you thought you had a nice youngster to bring on and get going. To put in non emotional terms if you bought a car that the brakes failed and were lucky enough to survive you wouldnt drive it again until it was either fixed if economically viable or scrapped and melted down. If he had been a car you would have returned forthwith the law is the same for a horse but people become all holier than thou because it is a sentient being There are far worse things in life for animals than a dignified death regardless of age or reason
Farma
Well-Known Member
I recently had a very similar situation happen can i ask where you got him from? Pm if you prefer
Flame_
Well-Known Member
When you first ride him, if you do ride him, do it in an indoor and if he's not used to one, take him to one to practice in first.
Turks
Well-Known Member
On main H&H site...
Man charged after loose horses cause fatal crash
A man will appear in court charged with causing a public nuisance after his horses were involved in a fatal accident on the A14 on Christmas Eve last year.
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news...horses-cause-fatal-crash/#1MPyK66q8M01aqjW.99
We all have to be so damn careful... Its not just a question of liability. It can be a criminal matter. Bottom-line - its life and death.
Sorry DA - I know you are more than aware of risks. Thought it was worth emphasizing for one or two out there nevertheless
Man charged after loose horses cause fatal crash
A man will appear in court charged with causing a public nuisance after his horses were involved in a fatal accident on the A14 on Christmas Eve last year.
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news...horses-cause-fatal-crash/#1MPyK66q8M01aqjW.99
We all have to be so damn careful... Its not just a question of liability. It can be a criminal matter. Bottom-line - its life and death.
Sorry DA - I know you are more than aware of risks. Thought it was worth emphasizing for one or two out there nevertheless
digitalangel
Well-Known Member
windand rain - i want to thank you for posting. This must have been a very brave post indeed. i cant imagine how you must have felt - id you have to go to court or an inquest?
Farma - i dont think its the same person you got yours from, i could be wrong but mine isnt a dealer as such, just a breeder.
I just wish i could see some improvement. He wasnt happy tonight having me in the stable for the most part, again he tolerated me and he had another all-over groom but he wasnt happy especially around his back end and again lifted a leg. There are glimpses of him settling but for the most part you can just see how tense he is, except hes holding it all inside, not like my wussy warmbloods whos snorts of worry can be heard in the next county! Not being able to read him at all. I really feel so sorry for him. Im still not convinced he will ever settle, i hope im wrong but not much progress being made yet, but early days.
Farma - i dont think its the same person you got yours from, i could be wrong but mine isnt a dealer as such, just a breeder.
I just wish i could see some improvement. He wasnt happy tonight having me in the stable for the most part, again he tolerated me and he had another all-over groom but he wasnt happy especially around his back end and again lifted a leg. There are glimpses of him settling but for the most part you can just see how tense he is, except hes holding it all inside, not like my wussy warmbloods whos snorts of worry can be heard in the next county! Not being able to read him at all. I really feel so sorry for him. Im still not convinced he will ever settle, i hope im wrong but not much progress being made yet, but early days.
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
Appys can be odd creatures, the first mare we had got onto a road loose twice the first six weeks that we had her! The first time was when the livery yard put her in a 'new' field and she walked out over the poor fencing, fortunately a local farmer herded her with his truck and put her in a spare loose box. She called and called when she heard us get there (they had shut the top door as they feared she would jump out). The scond time she broke an unbreakable head collar while panicking at a double decker bus on a narrow road, she ran off to a field with horses she was turned out with. We moved after six weeks, leading her the four miles to the new yard (she didn't load) with our hearts in our mouths, at one point thinking we may have to break the journey by putting her in a field! About half way there it was as if a switch had been flicked and she was our horse and happy to be where ever we were. We kept her for the next 24 years and while she was always 'interesting' she was great fun and very much part of the family. She is the reason we have gone on to have two more Appys.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
45 years later it is still traumatic the inquest and PM couldnt prove whether the man died from the accident or the accident was caused by his death but for a very long time the family were in limbo not knowing how it was going to turn out. Both the horse and man were dead so nothing could make it any better it was a very dark time in my life. Horse broke both his front legs and the vet didnt get there for over an hour. To this day even if they go only a few hundred yards they go in an enclosed trailer or lorry I will not lead them or ride them away from their familiar surroundings to a new home. It nearly killed my dad who was heartbroken and had to inform me of the accident and I took a very long time to recover from his death, and be able to talk about it at all
Turks
Well-Known Member
Windandrain - There but for the grace of G go the rest of us. How absolutely horrible all round. Thanks for telling.
Girlracer
Well-Known Member
In all honesty, I'm really quite surprised by all suggestions to PTS. At the end of the day, none of us were there, but it sounds as though a series of events on his first day with you led to him going in to a total panic. And now, with that as his first experience he is understandably pretty un-settled. He's now been locked in a stable (understandably) for a prolonged period of time, was probably sore from the accident which has been made worse by standing in. You say he's un-comfortable with you grooming him and has raised a leg? Well is it not probable he is pretty darn sore?
This to me sounds like a scared, confused and upset animal. Obviously it's an awful situation for you to be in but I do not feel as though this horse has really been given a fair chance. Appy's can be extremely sensitive, and he's not had a great time of it since he arrived at yours.
FWIW I have a private yard, at the end of an extremely long gated drive. He would not get near a road if he was to get loose. Please before you tar him dangerous and shoot it send me a message, I feel quite strongly that this horse does not need a bullet.
Really hope you come to a solution soon.
This to me sounds like a scared, confused and upset animal. Obviously it's an awful situation for you to be in but I do not feel as though this horse has really been given a fair chance. Appy's can be extremely sensitive, and he's not had a great time of it since he arrived at yours.
FWIW I have a private yard, at the end of an extremely long gated drive. He would not get near a road if he was to get loose. Please before you tar him dangerous and shoot it send me a message, I feel quite strongly that this horse does not need a bullet.
Really hope you come to a solution soon.
Jenna1406
Well-Known Member
OP I hope you are getting on OK with this horse. Again, I take my hat off you to for doing this. If I lived closer I would have happily lent a hand.
Again, think about your safety first.
Again, think about your safety first.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
DA what did the vet say?
There is a supplement available from the vets for settling horses on box rest.
Some horses are very susceptible to liquid Valerian if he was here I would try that first.
And I would be using sedation , sedalin or what ever the vet advises when you change things .
It's just too soon to say he will never settle .
I have dealt with ' rough broke ' Irish horses who took six months to stop leg lifting and and bum swinging.
They don't trust quickly why should they .
Do you have a school ?
If so after the weekend I would start gentle lunging even if it's all walk halt if he's still sore twice daily to get his interest.
I would also start changing the horse in the stable next to him , hes going to absorb a lot of time that's for sure that's projects fot you.
There is a supplement available from the vets for settling horses on box rest.
Some horses are very susceptible to liquid Valerian if he was here I would try that first.
And I would be using sedation , sedalin or what ever the vet advises when you change things .
It's just too soon to say he will never settle .
I have dealt with ' rough broke ' Irish horses who took six months to stop leg lifting and and bum swinging.
They don't trust quickly why should they .
Do you have a school ?
If so after the weekend I would start gentle lunging even if it's all walk halt if he's still sore twice daily to get his interest.
I would also start changing the horse in the stable next to him , hes going to absorb a lot of time that's for sure that's projects fot you.
DJ
Well-Known Member
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
OP's missed that sorry.
digitalangel
Well-Known Member
Hi Yes hes been checked out now - no vision issues or health issues that the vet can see, yes hes sore all over so been advised to just keep him quiet and the turnout is the best place for that because he can move around if he wants but still has his buddies there. Hes resting now in the turnout and having a doze. Turning him out first into the turnout pen seems to keep him calmer.
He wont eat hard feed, i have sedalin and valerian and magic calmer to hand.
He wont eat hard feed, i have sedalin and valerian and magic calmer to hand.
digitalangel
Well-Known Member
and yes have a school. when hes less sore we will start work in there.
TrasaM
Well-Known Member
Good to hear he's having a snooze. He must be relaxing a bit if he's decided its safe enough to sleep. Poor lad. Even if the fall hadn't hurt him I bet a five mile gallop will have left him stiff and sore all over. Well done on persevering with him. Onwards and upwards and fingers crossed for you both.
Rouletterose
Well-Known Member
I do wish you well with him but it all seems a little strange to be fair to him.
you got him home fine and turned him out with another horse and he was fine. He had a rug on and was fine.
You rode him twice, and he was fine, the second time you tacked him up yourself in the stable and he was fine.
you said he was not strong to ride.
I would say all his issues are confidence issues and separation anxiety especially as I understand he has come from the breeder? A bolting horse is petrifying for anyone especially if you are riding at the time, which luckily you were not.
He needs to work, start schooling him and let him start to get attached to you, you are the one saying what is happening. Make sure you have someone experienced with you, but if you are nervous then get an instructor to start him off for you the first week or two so he doesn't pick up on your nerves.
Don't put yourself in danger but try to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Good luck take your time, do everything slowly and breathe.
you got him home fine and turned him out with another horse and he was fine. He had a rug on and was fine.
You rode him twice, and he was fine, the second time you tacked him up yourself in the stable and he was fine.
you said he was not strong to ride.
I would say all his issues are confidence issues and separation anxiety especially as I understand he has come from the breeder? A bolting horse is petrifying for anyone especially if you are riding at the time, which luckily you were not.
He needs to work, start schooling him and let him start to get attached to you, you are the one saying what is happening. Make sure you have someone experienced with you, but if you are nervous then get an instructor to start him off for you the first week or two so he doesn't pick up on your nerves.
Don't put yourself in danger but try to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Good luck take your time, do everything slowly and breathe.
diamonddogs
Well-Known Member
Wanted to finish reading everything before I posted
Whatever it is you're doing must be OK if he's relaxing enough to snooze! I wonder if he seems to have gone back a step when being groomed because his aches and pains are starting to come out now. I think the quicker you can establish his routine the better - my mare was up on her hind legs once because someone had the temerity to introduce a new yardbrush without checking with her first!
There's a gelding on our yard who won't tolerate rugs when he goes out. He wears his fleece pyjamas at night and never bats an eyelid, but as soon as he's turned out in a rug he turns into a screaming banshee. He was turned out for ten minutes in the school while his owner mucked his stable out, and when she went to fetch him he'd tried to run through a hedge and slashed his knee to ribbons. His owner has no clue as to why he has such an extreme reaction to rugs as he was always fine for years. This ex-racehorse happily goes out in all weathers naked these days.
Good luck and keep on doing what you're doing, and it looks like you've got a couple of offers to take him if things don't come right for you.
Whatever it is you're doing must be OK if he's relaxing enough to snooze! I wonder if he seems to have gone back a step when being groomed because his aches and pains are starting to come out now. I think the quicker you can establish his routine the better - my mare was up on her hind legs once because someone had the temerity to introduce a new yardbrush without checking with her first!
There's a gelding on our yard who won't tolerate rugs when he goes out. He wears his fleece pyjamas at night and never bats an eyelid, but as soon as he's turned out in a rug he turns into a screaming banshee. He was turned out for ten minutes in the school while his owner mucked his stable out, and when she went to fetch him he'd tried to run through a hedge and slashed his knee to ribbons. His owner has no clue as to why he has such an extreme reaction to rugs as he was always fine for years. This ex-racehorse happily goes out in all weathers naked these days.
Good luck and keep on doing what you're doing, and it looks like you've got a couple of offers to take him if things don't come right for you.