Horse killed dog

[Lizzie66]

Just read up on a ramblers guide web site and generally it appears to be a tragic accident. However now that you know that your horse may cause a danger then it would be wise that you take reasonable precautions to prevent it happening again.

The guidance is such that although dogs might be classed a normal accompaniment to people it is the person not the dog that has the right of way. An attack by a horse in a field is reportable to the HSSE and it might be worth you doing this before others have opportunity to do so.

If the footpath goes round the edge of the field then consider taping it off or asking the YO whether it is possible to move your youngster(s) to another paddock that doesn't have a PROW in it. Whether the liability is with you the horses owner or the YO I wouldn't know, it might depend on the terms of your agreement or it might be that you have joint liability.

The chances are that the dog was on the lead or else it is likely to have managed to escape (unless elderly), however previous passers through may have had out of control dogs that may have made your youngster anti-dog, or it could just have been a high-spirited youngster that unfortunately caused this accident. Whichever the consequences are the same and pointing fingers is not helping anyone.

 

[PerfectCoffee]

For this to happen as a one off might be classed as an accident but if something similar happened again you would probably be liable as you knew the horse had attacked previously. I'd get the horse out of this field pronto.

 

[YorksG]

I would check what sort of lead the dog ways on, if it was one of those awful extending leads then I can see that the dog was not under control. I once saw a girl at a busy junction with a pup on an extending lead, girl on pavement texting, the extending lead extended and the pup ended up under the wheels of a double cab. The driver was absolutely not to blame and the dog was officially under "control" I worry about people thinking that one of those leads give them control over their dog.

 

[Penny Less]

My cynical head was wondering if in fact dog was on a lead. It seems odd to me that a horse would charge up to two people and a dog on a lead, whereas an off lead dog would be a different scenario.

 

[ester]

Arguably though, the dog would have been much better off lead and able to get away as the advice always is for attacking cattle.

 

[Lizzie66]

My cynical head was wondering if in fact dog was on a lead. It seems odd to me that a horse would charge up to two people and a dog on a lead, whereas an off lead dog would be a different scenario.

It's a youngster it could do anything. Our mare charged up to me the other day and pranced and bounced around (she was expecting her feed) she didn't do anything but if you then threw another 1/2 unpredictable animals in with a dollop of fear from the humans and a youngster that doesn't know better who knows what could happen.

Whatever, these people have lost a beloved pet so trying to say its their fault (whether they may have contributed or not) is likely to just get their backs up and make a bad situation worse.

If it was my dog I would upset, cross at myself and cross at the situation/other person. If someone then tried telling me that I was possibly/probably lying would make me exceedingly angry and more inclined to look at taking further action. I would want an apology for the outcome of the incident and reassurance that they would put measures in place to stop that horse doing something similar again. Apologies do not mean admitting liability or blame, how many of us on hearing of someone's bereavement say I am so sorry to hear about you mum/dad, this doesn't mean we killed them !!

 

[Sags_Deer]

oh my that poor dog and owner.
If I had a footpath going near my fields id have to have it fenced off for safety reasons all round. Never understand why people don't.

 

[MagicMelon]

Hard to see how the dog owners could be at fault if they were on a footpath and the dog was on a lead. What are they saying about what happened ? I hope you have removed your horse and will do the right thing ?

Whats the right thing that you refer to? I think all you can do OP is simply move the horse to a different field which doesnt have a footpath runnng through it. You dont know what happened - they said on a lead but it could have been an extendable one which could have got wrapped round the horses leg and it panicked etc.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Arguably though, the dog would have been much better off lead and able to get away as the advice always is for attacking cattle.

Cattle don't behave the same as horses. In my experience a dog would usually be safer beside a human than loose around horses. Not many horses will hang around if a human waves their arms around and shouts where as nothing will stop an aggressive bovine coming at a dog it perceives to be a threat.

I hate having my dogs around horses and when I used to contract shepherd I got in a right barny with a woman who refused to believe me when I told her I wouldn't gather sheep with loose horses because they would go for the dog. "Oh but they are used to dogs" that's as may be but a sheep dog working sheep elicits an attack response in every horse I've ever met (except Daisy!). Without exception I have had to pick the dog up and chase the horses off (including hers! Which she didn't like either!). Now I just don't do it if I can help it. Certainly safer beside me if we do need to do it tho.

 

[Goldenstar]

I'm surprised at suggestions of suing etc., I can see why, with hindsight, the field should maybe have been fenced off but surely this is just a tragic accident. These things happen. There are often stories of cows killing people/dogs and dogs killing sheep but I don't hear of farmers being required to erect additional fencing, or being sued.

Farmers are certainly liable to be sued if someone is injured or killed by cattle there's just been an awful case round here when a mother out walking with her family was killed by a cow.
I feel for every body involved it's a horrible situation to be in .

 

[melbiswas]

My cynical head was wondering if in fact dog was on a lead. It seems odd to me that a horse would charge up to two people and a dog on a lead, whereas an off lead dog would be a different scenario.

This was what we thought encountering the youngster with our dogs.
He had chased them previously when we had them off the lead. They are elderly and were doing nothing more exciting than attempting to 'poo pick' as we walked through the field.
We decided to keep them on the lead the next time to make them less appealing to chase and he tried to barge us out of the way to get at the dogs, lashing out with his front legs. A growl from me and he turned his bottom and backed into us double barrelling before turning again for the dogs who were cowering by our legs.
I decided to let the dogs off to run away as he was getting more determined and it felt like it was only a matter of time before we or the dogs were hurt.

Admittedly I am not used to boisterous youngsters - all mine are well mannered oldies, but I found it very frightening.

I think it is totally plausible the dog was on a lead.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Farmers are certainly liable to be sued if someone is injured or killed by cattle .

You would surely need to prove negligence to get anywhere. If the beast is known to be dangerous, or some such thing, that is one thing, but if it is an out of the blue attack and the farmer has taken all the right precautions over the animals (dairy bulls cannot graze in fields with footpaths but beef bulls can as long as they have female company or are under 10 months of age and warning signs are in use, for instance) I don't see them being found liable.

Nearly every field I have has a foot path through it and also up here we have the outdoor access code which essentially means you can go where you like. It would be impossible to fence them all off or not graze them with cattle and often people won't stay on the fenced off path anyway!

Indeed we had a woman phone up and complain because we had she said, falsely put up a sign saying bull in field to prevent people walking in the field and "she had been up and inspected them and they were all cows". Now our cattle inc bulls are all very calm and good natured but you cannot account for stupid. There were two bulls in that field, but as the cows with them also had horns, apparently that made them all female.

The safest way through a field of cattle (or anything big!) is along the fence line, yet how many footpaths cut right through the middle of fields and can't be moved without a load of hassle for the land owner.

I am a stock person and you would not catch me walking through any cattle I didn't know with or without a dog and I probably would avoid horses too!

 

[Neversaydie]

I find it hard to believe that a horse ran over two people to get to a dog. I have a horse that will attack a dog loose in his field, he has done it before and even went for my own dog a few times, my dog knew to go into the fenced of schooling area of the field so used to taunt my horse a little with it, I knowing this wouldn't put him in a field with a public footpath.

However if someone walked their dog loose in the field then I'm of the opinion they deserve all they get as dogs should be in a lead around livestock, he has learnt this behaviour somewhere and possibly from being chased before.

He is perfectly mannered in hand, under saddle and if the dog is on a leash with its human. He ignores them all unless they go for him in all the above cases.

 

[Goldenstar]

It's perfectly easy to understand that a youngster could kick a dog on the lead in a general melee .
Inexperienced People assume horses are benign and gentle as that generally how they are portrayed ,the dangers of cattle are more well known .
I think it's easy to see how this could happen and the dogs owner did nothing'wrong ' it's just a sad and unfortunate accident .

 

[Tiddlypom]

I can believe it would happen, too. I'm a 'country' person, but I try and avoid taking the dog (who is always on a lead) through fields containing cattle or horses. I'll reroute to avoid them if I can, or I will hug the field boundary if there's no alternative, even if the RoW goes straight across.

I've seen too many lively cattle and horses whizzing their fields around to want to mix it with them (unless I know them well), thank you very much. Sometimes they set off for no apparent reason, and the innocent walker + pooch(es) get caught up in the melee.

 

[Pebble101]

I find it hard to believe that a horse ran over two people to get to a dog. I have a horse that will attack a dog loose in his field, he has done it before and even went for my own dog a few times, my dog knew to go into the fenced of schooling area of the field so used to taunt my horse a little with it, I knowing this wouldn't put him in a field with a public footpath.

However if someone walked their dog loose in the field then I'm of the opinion they deserve all they get as dogs should be in a lead around livestock, he has learnt this behaviour somewhere and possibly from being chased before.

He is perfectly mannered in hand, under saddle and if the dog is on a leash with its human. He ignores them all unless they go for him in all the above cases.

I have two fields, one attached to the house and stables and one down the road. One of my horses ignores my neighbours dogs, ducks and chickens running around the field down the road. The only danger to the chickens is when they are pecking around his feet and he gets down to roll, one day one will get squashed. However in the other field attached to house and stables he does become territorial, I have seen him chase my neighbours cat and a rabbit. I never let my parents dogs out there if the horses are in the field.

 

[Fudge2016]

I have read through this forum with great interest, as I am/was the owner of the dog killed in Kings Sutton.

I would like to clarify that I was walking her and my other dog alone. My husband was not with me when the incident happened. I saw no other walkers on this occasion.

The dogs name was Fudge, she was a miniature long-haired dachshund, 12 years old and recovering from major abdominal surgery. This was her first post-op walk. She was on a fixed length lead – not a retractable one and we were on the footpath.

The horses ran toward us at quite a speed, it was all so quick I couldn’t do anything to stop her being stamped on. I couldn’t believe what was happening. The horse then turned its attention to my spaniel (also 12), luckily she is more spritely and when I dropped her lead to pick up Fudge she ran to the kissing gate with the horse on her heals.

The whole thing was a terrifying experience that I wouldn’t wish upon anyone. The image of seeing Fudge crushed to death at my feet will remain with me forever.

I have been walking this footpath for 15 years and would like to continue to do so safely. This footpath would be much safer for the public if it was segregated from the paddocks, then there could be no debate about who is to blame in the future if anything terrible were to happen. For those not used to horses the whole experience of walking through paddocks is very intimidating, be it with cattle or horses.

It is very sad for all concerned, but nothing will bring back Fudge and nothing is to be gained by pointing fingers.

You are right Lizzie66, I am upset and I really don’t appreciate the suggestion that I am possibly/probably lying about what happened and whether my dogs were on leads.

An apology would be polite.

 

[Lizzie66]

I have read through this forum with great interest, as I am/was the owner of the dog killed in Kings Sutton.

I would just like to say what an awful situation this must have been and the final image is the thing nightmares are made of. I am so sorry that you lost your poor little dog Fudge in this manner and do hope that you manage to replace the final memories with ones of earlier times.

 

[Red-1]

I have not commented on this thread before, but am very sorry to hear abut the awful accident with your dog, Fudge.

I also hope that you can see that, especially in the first 3 pages of comments, the overwhelming feeling is just of upset for you and for your dog.

I am also sorry that you have been hurt by insinuations that you have been lying. People on here do not know you or your dog, so are relying on their own experiences to frame that experience. Many horse owners are also dog owners, and when all is said and done we are all animal lovers. Many people have had their own scary experiences of dogs chasing horses, and although horses are much bigger they are also intrinsically stupid when under attack, and can seriously injure themselves by running into fences etc. It is from this place of fear, and of not knowing you, that the comments have come from, I believe. I am not saying that people are right to say you may be lying, but just trying to offer an explanation as to why they may have said this.

I do think that an apology is due, for suggesting that you were not telling the truth. I also, for what its worth, think that the horse should never be turned out on a footpath again.

I hope your other dog is OK. ((((Hugs)))).

Ruth. Dog and horse owner.

 

[Goldenstar]

Fudge2016
I am so sorry this happened to you .
I would be heartbroken if it happened to one of mine .
I worked with enough youngsters to have seen them do all sorts ,marooned in the middle of field with two dogs you were in an unfortunate situation .
It would be so much better if foot paths could be rerouted around the edges of fields so they could be safely fenced off , leaving the field useable without the palaver you have to go through ATM .

 

[Fudge2016]

I do think that an apology is due, for suggesting that you were not telling the truth. I also, for what its worth, think that the horse should never be turned out on a footpath again.

Thanks for your post, I totally understand that all posts will be slanted towards personal experience, and probably most have experienced dogs that are not under control or on a lead.

I have yet to receive an apology or acknowledgement of what has happened from the owner of the horse.

 

[Michen]

Owner is probably waiting to hear from their insurance etc as to how best to proceed, in this day and age everyone is terrified to formally admit liability etc etc so they are probably trying to go the correct route. Sorry about your dog

Thanks for your post, I totally understand that all posts will be slanted towards personal experience, and probably most have experienced dogs that are not under control or on a lead.

I have yet to receive an apology or acknowledgement of what has happened from the owner of the horse.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Fudge2016, am very sorry to hear of your horrible experience, how is your other dog coping?

I find it hard to believe that a horse ran over two people to get to a dog..

My totally well behaved mini is brilliant with dogs UNLESS she is grazing loose in a paddock. She will barrell through anyone to get to stamp on a dog, she has even bashed into the fence hard to clear a dog out. Its NOT nice to witness and all my friends who visit with dogs know that:
a. nobody goes out in her paddock with a dog EVER
b. If wanting to run dogs on my fields, we pop mini in her stable. I do this twice a day so my little dog can come with me poo-picking.

To add, this pony is absolutely fine when attached to a human in the yard, out hacking or even over her stable door. Its just when out grazing that she turns into Mrs jeckyll - and means it!

 

[ozpoz]

Fudge, I am so sorry to hear about your poor little dog - so sad.

Horses will be horses, and that is no comfort, but if the young horse had never done this before then no one could foresee it.
I do feel strongly, as other's have mentioned, that footpaths should be re routed to the edge of fields with livestock, they are just so unpredictable. I don't think owners should be expected to fence off footpaths, as effectively the land could be cut in two, with water in one area, for example, and the cost would be,for many,prohibitive.

 

[FfionWinnie]

It's a horrible situation for all concerned.

I'm sure the owner of the horse is most upset and sorry about your dog but in this litigious society they are unlikely to be "allowed" to apologise at this stage.

I agree finger pointing is pointless however I believe these tragedies happen in part because of the legislation which prevents footpaths being diverted to a safer route. It's a exceedingly difficult to get them diverted.

The land which the paths cross, has an owner. That owner makes a living from that land. It's impractical to say large animals cannot be grazed on land with a footpath. Every care is taken by farmers to keep difficult animals away from footpaths but it would be so much safer for everyone, to avoid walking in fields with livestock. Indeed if I graze sheep on land with footpaths I am asking for them to be killed by dogs and owners will tell me regularly their dog was just playing with the sheep. I can see this situation from both sides. If the horse has previous form that is one thing, but if it's come out of the blue how could anyone predict this happening.

 

[ossy]

As a horse and dog owner I am very sorry for your lose and I would be so upset if it happened to my dog. Also I agree that the majority of this thread has always expressed sympathy for the lose of the dog and advice to the horse owner was to do the responsible thing and contact their insurance.

I was one who said the cynic in me would question if the dog was on a lead, I feel I do not need to apologise for this, I did not call you lier specifically but from my own experience it's usually dogs off leads I've had a problem with. The OP did not specify how exactly she came about the info the dog was on a lead ect so yes in this day and age, the cynic in me would want to trible check these kind of facts.

 

[pepsimaxrock]

Did I read that the horse was at livery? Why is the YO taking money to graze horses on an unfenced field with a footpath? Is there not some landowner responsbility?
So sorry about Fudge. What an unusual accident.

 

[Fudge2016]

I'm sure the owner of the horse is most upset and sorry about your dog but in this litigious society they are unlikely to be "allowed" to apologise at this stage.

Thank you for your post.

No amount of compensation can bring Fudge back or turn back time.

Fudge died within 5 minutes of being trampled, while we were on the way to the vet. No vet fees were incurred as it was too late for anything to be done. Therefore although Fudge was insured there was no insurance claim made for vet bills, etc.

I am not seeking compensation.

All I request is an apology from the owner and that this field be made safe for walkers with dogs. Although I will certainly never walk this field again.

 

[ester]

I am so sorry Fudge

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Thank you for your post.

No amount of compensation can bring Fudge back or turn back time.

Fudge died within 5 minutes of being trampled, while we were on the way to the vet. No vet fees were incurred as it was too late for anything to be done. Therefore although Fudge was insured there was no insurance claim made for vet bills, etc.

I am not seeking compensation.

All I request is an apology from the owner and that this field be made safe for walkers with dogs. Although I will certainly never walk this field again.

I think this is very fair of you. I'm very sorry to hear of what happened. A very traumatic experience all round. I really hope that lessons are learnt by the YO and that the field is properly secured.
Big hugs xxxxx