Horse killed dog

[Damnation]

I have read this with interest.

Firstly, Fudge2016, as a horse and dog owner, I am incredibly sorry for your loss. What a traumatic thing to happen to you and your poor pooch. *Sending you Hugs*

OP, this was an accident, you can hardly be blamed for the way your horse behaves loose in a field. However, I have always been on the understanding that if there is a path through a field it needs to be made safe for walkers, I.e a safe fenced path, or no stock in the field that could harm anyone.

If this was at livery, you need to speak to your YO very seriously about fencing a safe path through this field, or moving your horses to another field/premises. It could be a child next time with an "un-horsey" adult who as someone has previously said thinks that horses are always calm and gentle.

All in all, I do believe an apology is due but overall this was just a horiffic and unusual accident with a sadly fatal outcome.

Again, Fudge2016, I am so sorry for your loss **Hugs**

 

[RunToEarth]

Did I read that the horse was at livery? Why is the YO taking money to graze horses on an unfenced field with a footpath? Is there not some landowner responsbility?
So sorry about Fudge. What an unusual accident.

It is perfectly legal and acceptable to graze animals in a field with a public right of way, as long as the animal is not a known danger - I'm sure someone will have already given the example of dairy breed bulls. It is sensible to fence footpaths off, but not always feasible, especially if in the middle of a field.

I'm very sorry to hear about Fudge, what a tragic accident to happen.

 

[rascal]

I am sorry for your loss Fudge2016, I also have both horses and dogs, so understand both views.

We had a young horse many years ago, who was great with dogs until he was chased by one, after that he was unpredictable with them. He was also chased by a dog when I was riding him, and he did try to kick. We have often had dogs being walked in our horses field even though there is no footpath.

 

[Palindrome]

Sorry for your loss Fudge.

That's a terrible accident, but that's what it is an accident. It's no one's fault, just bad luck.
A footpath that is on private land is still private land, just gives you the right to cross it. I think it's unfair to ask the owner of the land to go the extra mile by fencing off or removing livestock. I have myself used a bridleway crossing a field with cows and a bull and understood I was doing so at my own and my horse's risks. I could have used another route if not ready to take that risk.

 

[Lizzie66]

Owner is probably waiting to hear from their insurance etc as to how best to proceed, in this day and age everyone is terrified to formally admit liability etc etc so they are probably trying to go the correct route. Sorry about your dog

I cannot see why someone can't apologise to Fudge2016 for the loss of her beloved pet. We have all said how sorry we are, none of us had anything to do with it, saying sorry is not an admission of liability.

 

[Palindrome]

I cannot see why someone can't apologise to Fudge2016 for the loss of her beloved pet. We have all said how sorry we are, none of us had anything to do with it, saying sorry is not an admission of liability.

Not sure it will make a difference, it won't bring the dog back unfortunately or make the owner's pain go away.

 

[ester]

Not sure it will make a difference, it won't bring the dog back unfortunately or make the owner's pain go away.

but the owner has asked for one.

 

[Palindrome]

but the owner has asked for one.

but the horse owner is in no way at fault so surely it is only a matter of personal decision?

 

[Lizzie66]

Not sure it will make a difference, it won't bring the dog back unfortunately or make the owner's pain go away.

No although Fudges owner has said that they would have liked an apology. However an apology that is given out of arm twisting is not quite the same as a freely offered one, there tends to be a lack of sincerity in the former which then makes you think why bother if you don't mean it.

 

[Lizzie66]

but the horse owner is in no way at fault so surely it is only a matter of personal decision?

If you can't express regret that an animal has died in such tragic circumstances then I would say there is something not quite right about your decision making.

 

[Pedantic]

For the last 12 years my dog/s have always come with me in the mornings to sort out my Po, but only in the last 3 weeks I have had to stop letting my old Collie in the field with me and the horse's, the reason being two of the other horses have tried to stamp her viciously, she is very deaf now and doesn't hear well at all, but the thing is it is their field, so I say fair enough, my own Po is fine with my dogs as long as they don't go round his back end, problem with public rights of way is that some dog owners won't control their dogs, so horse's get a fright and protective, so next time a dog comes near they go for it, we had a Rotty bite one of our horses in the muzzle last bank holiday, owners ran off leaving horse owner with expensive vget holiday call out and stitches, and it's not even a public right of way through the field.

A lot of times the innocent pay the price for the idiots, I bet being a public right of way lots of dog owners have let their dogs upset the horse's, seen it soooo many times when I was on a public park, that goes along with people feeding ham sandwiches to your horse as well, right next to the DO NOT FEED THE HORSE'S, then when the horse's get upset fighting over the food, some innocent person comes along later and gets bitten.

NOA

 

[FfionWinnie]

The OP hasn't been online since posting the thread.

 

[SpringArising]

Not sure it will make a difference, it won't bring the dog back unfortunately or make the owner's pain go away.

but the horse owner is in no way at fault so surely it is only a matter of personal decision?

If my horse killed someone's beloved dog, whether it was my fault or not, the horse's fault or not, the very least I would do is offer a verbal apology. It's not about being right or wrong or making a 'personal decision'; it's the decent thing to do. I'm a bit baffled that you would feel OK not saying anything at all here in terms of offering some sympathy.

 

[Palindrome]

If my horse killed someone's beloved dog, whether it was my fault or not, the horse's fault or not, the very least I would do is offer a verbal apology. It's not about being right or wrong or making a 'personal decision'; it's the decent thing to do. I'm a bit baffled that you would feel OK not saying anything at all here in terms of offering some sympathy.

There is a big difference between offering sympathy/condoleances and a formal (here written) apology. We don't know what the OP did/didn't say.

What I would do is irrelevant. For what it's worth I have been severely injured by someone's horse and didn't expect them to apologise (which they didn't but they offered help, sympathy and some lovely soup when I came out of hospital).

 

[Slightlyconfused]

My cynical head was wondering if in fact dog was on a lead. It seems odd to me that a horse would charge up to two people and a dog on a lead, whereas an off lead dog would be a different scenario.

There are five horses, including one of mine, that have been on my yard over the past six years that have gone for dogs walking through the feilds with owners. And these are liverys dogs too.

One even attacked the.yard owners dog.

I do not trust horses and dogs in feilds full stop, just like cattle.



I'm very very sorry for your loss Fudge2016.

 

[Copperpot]

Firstly I'm so sorry for your loss. Rest in peace Fudge. If my horse killed a dog I would be devastated. An apology would be the least I could do. I have a footpath through my field and it's fenced off. My horses are generally very good with dogs as I have 5 of my own, but you just never know. I am lucky that the footpath runs down one side, so it's easy to make it safe for people to use. Once again, so sorry.

 

[Fiona]

I'm so sorry for your loss fudge2016 x x My jrt was killed on the road recently outside our house, and the past four months have been a v dark time for me. Please look after yourself and best wishes for the future. .

In relation to dogs chasing horses, I'm in exactly the same position as fuzzy furry. My tb mare is fine with dogs on the yard and out hacking but she is v unpredictable if one enters her field.. She ignored our jrts but black labs and our new terrier pup have both been chased fairly determinedly.. I have now warned near neighbours. .

Fiona

 

[Tobiano]

oh my goodness this is so sad. Fudge2016, I am so very sorry for your loss and for the awful trauma that you, and little Fudge, and your other dog have suffered.

It is horrible that something like this can happen when using a public footpath. I have always thought that the idea of having them unfenced through land with stock is potentially dangerous.

Run free little Fudge x x

 

[Clannad48]

I'm really sorry to hear about the loss of your dog and I am sure that the OP is also upset about what has happened.

I would point out that some insurance companies say that you should not have any contact with the other party but to go through them. I know that the OP was asking about liability in this matter and it may be that they have been told not to contact you.

As previously said by Ffion Winnie the OP has not been online since the original posting so may not have seen how this thread has progressed, not everyone lives on the forum, especially if they are a new member.

Again, sympathy for the loss of your beloved pet. Run free over Rainbow Bridge Fudge

 

[mairiwick]

After watching just how interested my mare and one of her field mates were in a guy hopping over the fence to their field and walking his dog (on a short lead) across it, I have to confess this is exactly what I have been worried could have happened. They are not youngsters either. The difference in my case is that there was no right of way and he should not have been there. Our YO was informed and thankfully he got himself out of the field and into the next empty one (leads to a footpath can only assume he thought it was ok to take a shortcut) before the two charged over to him. They followed him down the fence line however, meanwhile I was ignored while poo picking.
What an awful accident, and how horrible to witness happening to your own pet.

 

[popsdosh]

Sorry for your loss Fudge.

That's a terrible accident, but that's what it is an accident. It's no one's fault, just bad luck.
A footpath that is on private land is still private land, just gives you the right to cross it. I think it's unfair to ask the owner of the land to go the extra mile by fencing off or removing livestock. I have myself used a bridleway crossing a field with cows and a bull and understood I was doing so at my own and my horse's risks. I could have used another route if not ready to take that risk.

Under law any land owner has a duty of care to any person crossing their land legally or not. We have many fields crossed by footpaths with stock and you would not believe the insurance cost involved to cover every eventuality.
For those saying move the footpath I say go and try too. A well known activist group called the ramblers stand in the way of every application.
Perhaps a ban on dogs on footpaths with stock as they are always without exception the common denominator in any in any stock killing or injuring people on footpaths and whats more attacks by bulls are extremely rare nearly always a cow with a young calf.. I actually have signs up telling walkers they can use any part of the land so they may avoid the cattle.
Just a quick thought for the OP now you have been warned what your horse can do ,never again will you be able to not be liable or responsible if it does it again so think of the consequences to you ,and your YO should also consider these points. Like I would if my cattle attacked somebody you should think carefully about the horses future im afraid.

 

[popsdosh]

The OP hasn't been online since posting the thread.

Maybe they have? it maybe an alias for a more regular poster!!

 

[MrsMurs]

What a tragic and traumatic accident, I'm sure for all involved but particularly for little Fudges owner . I can't imagine what she is going through, knowing how my own boys are my entire world. It seems we have become a society too frightened of litigation to allow ourselves to show any human compassion.
Op, take practical steps as people have advised to prevent this happening again, and then get in touch with fudges mum and talk it through. No one is casting blame but at the very least allow her some closure on this and to recover from this most awful experience with a clear heart.
RIP Fudge x

 

[Dry Rot]

Very sorry to hear of this nasty and upsetting accident. I think it has all been said and I can imagine how the dog's owner is feeling. Her attitude is very fair and reasonable in the circumstances.

From a legal aspect, I wonder what the situation would be in Scotland where there is the so-called 'right to roam'? Fencing off foot paths is all very well, but if walkers have the right to wander where they will, the logic from some posts on this thread would seem to dictate that all horses should be permanently confined to a stable! That can't be right either.

I am interested in the suggestion that walkers have a right to use a foot path in England, but not dogs which are presumably there under sufferance if that is correct. Is that right?

And if so, do dog owers not have a responsibility to keep out of fields with livestock in them, whether there is a foot path or not?

I appreciate that these questions may seem confrontational, but I am just seeking to get to the facts without involving emotion, although the incident under discussion is obviously an emotional one. So please don't shoot the messenger. I am both a dog owner and a horse owner and care about both equally.

 

[Goldenstar]

The answer to these issues is to fast track applications to reroute footpaths to the edges of fields if land owners request it .
I was involved with a couple of applications from farmers to reroute bridleways from potentially dangerous routes ( busy farmyards and the like ) the BHS supported the moves the ramblers fought every step of the way .
I think it needs be it's a stock field ,it's a well used route , the parish council support it , fence it round the edge ,no messing.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Popsdosh, The Ramblers are not activists, they are very much in favour of safe routes & will HELP with access laws & moving of marked routes. They are a source of vital knowledge.

 

[madlady]

Popsdosh, The Ramblers are not activists, they are very much in favour of safe routes & will HELP with access laws & moving of marked routes. They are a source of vital knowledge.

I have to disagree - we have applied to have footpath's re-routed to the edge of a field so that it could be fence as the field is used for the grazing of mares with foal at foot and we applied for another one (on the same farm) to be moved to the edge as that field is used for ewes and lambs and we didn't really want people with dogs traipsing through the middle of the field. The local rights of way officer was brilliant and even helped us with what needed to be done - the local Ramblers protested and basically were as difficult as they possibly could be - a few of them even turned up in the yard and just refused to appreciate why we didn't want people walking through the middle of the fields. What could have been very straighforward and sorted within a few weeks with fencing to keep stock and people safe ended up taking months and half a dozen meetings.

 

[Dave's Mam]

That's interesting. However, you need to bear in mind that when rerouting a path, it has to be the same distance, surface & of the same quality. Were they actually from the official Ramblers or just some hangers on, using the name as a stick to force their point?

 

[popsdosh]

Popsdosh, The Ramblers are not activists, they are very much in favour of safe routes & will HELP with access laws & moving of marked routes. They are a source of vital knowledge.

From my experience over several options to reroute they indeed are activist who only wish to dictate so much so on two occasions they actually went so far with the reroute and then insisted that they had both the new and the old.

 

[madlady]

That's interesting. However, you need to bear in mind that when rerouting a path, it has to be the same distance, surface & of the same quality. Were they actually from the official Ramblers or just some hangers on, using the name as a stick to force their point?

They were actually from the official Ramblers. Our proposed route round the edge of the field was actually a better 'quality' of route as it was slightly higher and a lot less muddy - the distance was the same as the ROW officer had come out and helped us measure up, check stiles, check the routes etc beforehand. The old route went through the middle of 2 fields - the bottom field had sheep in it and the top field mares and foals - we wanted to re-route to the side of the field so that it could be fenced for safety all round. The Ramblers turned it into a huge palaver when there was no need.

The most infuriating thing was, out of the ones who turned up in the yard to have a 'discussion' all of them freely admitted they'd never even walked that particular route! The local walking group who regularly use the routes for organised walks were brilliant.