Horse prices- low end

[scats]

Prices comes up so often these days, l wonder what planet people have been living on! so many people wanting a cheap pony but equally want it to have been nicely bred, correctly fed/handled/ backed/ schooled.
My advice is always to look at a rescue centre or maybe for a loan that someone genuinely doesn’t want to sell but is happy to let it go on loan on whatever terms THEY decide. You may be lucky and pick up an unbroken 3/4 year old at a sale or may find an older pony not at a sale just looking for a nice happy home.
Going back to basics though many people stopped breeding because it simply wasn’t worth the hassle, therefore there are less horses/ponies about than there once were especially in the 13-14 hands range which is a useful height for people in the mid height range which includes children and even older adults. So …it costs around £3000 to get a foal on the ground - that’s including stud fee and keep of the mare, and then at least £1000 at a very minimum until 4 years old when it’s time for a bit more work, either the breeder is able to do this or pays someone else so that’s about £250 a week for xx weeks by which time you should have something you can sit on and will go forwards happily for its age and level of experience. Maybe people need to do the sums! It’s hardly surprising so few people are breeding these days and the future isn’t looking good for many of the registered types. There are always plenty of retired racehorses about, perhaps that would be a better bet?

I understand your points, but the problem is (and I include myself in this!) we’re from the planet where you used to be able to pick up a project for under a grand and it’s quite hard to get your head around the fact it’s not like that anymore

Happy to hold my hand up and say that perhaps it’s us not living in the real world and we need to move with the times. I will repeat that my friend has no issue with paying up to 4k for something, but maybe we expected something at that price to be able to walk and trot under saddle, even if just a straight line!
Nothing we have viewed has been registered/known breeding.

An OTTB is out unfortunately as needs to be between 13-14hh as my friend is tiny and looks like a pea on even a 15hh horse.

 

[scats]

Within budget

Affordable Super Fun Quality Cob

<p>Up to date with farrier, dentist and vaccinations<br /> <br /> A very sweet and genuine quality cob with plenty of bone and feather.<br /> <br /> Jennifer has a lovely trainable attitude and a very sensible head on her shoulders. She loves to hack and is willing in the school in all three...

www.horsequest.co.uk

Oh she’s cute! Bit older than friend intended but I’ll send her the advert.

See, if anything, I’d say this cob is underpriced (if she’s everything they say). So I’m not totally unrealistic!

 

[Cloball]

I've sent you a message about a lady in Kendal you could try.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I was also going to suggest nfed.

This one has just come on

5 year old New forest mare for sale

Full details on the NFED Classifieds - www.nfed.co.uk #horses #ponies #equestrian

www.nfed.co.uk

She is very pretty but looks very fine for a NF and I don't like her hind legs. Looks very sweet though.

 

[McGrools]

I understand your points, but the problem is (and I include myself in this!) we’re from the planet where you used to be able to pick up a project for under a grand and it’s quite hard to get your head around the fact it’s not like that anymore

Happy to hold my hand up and say that perhaps it’s us not living in the real world and we need to move with the times. I will repeat that my friend has no issue with paying up to 4k for something, but maybe we expected something at that price to be able to walk and trot under saddle, even if just a straight line!
Nothing we have viewed has been registered/known breeding.

An OTTB is out unfortunately as needs to be between 13-14hh as my friend is tiny and looks like a pea on even a 15hh horse.

I agree, so many years when the prices were a lot lower, it’s hard to accept the increase. same with dogs, I can’t get my head round paying more than £300 for a jtr

 

[gallopingby]

Oh she’s cute! Bit older than friend intended but I’ll send her the advert.

See, if anything, I’d say this cob is underpriced (if she’s everything they say). So I’m not totally unrealistic!

I wouldn’t worry too much about age. I agree she looks cute and possibly underpriced but she may have been picked up as a ‘job lot’ of unhandled cobs by someone able to put the basic work in. Horses these days frequently go on being ridden well in to their mid / late 20s. I would expect a 5 stage vetting just to give an indication that things were ok.

 

[Widgeon]

Within budget

Affordable Super Fun Quality Cob

<p>Up to date with farrier, dentist and vaccinations<br /> <br /> A very sweet and genuine quality cob with plenty of bone and feather.<br /> <br /> Jennifer has a lovely trainable attitude and a very sensible head on her shoulders. She loves to hack and is willing in the school in all three...

www.horsequest.co.uk

Oh I like her a LOT

 

[greasedweasel]

I'm another vote for Jennifer!

 

[Spotherisk]

How about Jasper? https://www.nfed.co.uk/cgi-bin/clas...lay_db_button=on&db_id=181132&query=retrieval

 

[marmalade76]

I think horses have been underpriced for years.

This may well be so, but why should anyone be expected to pay three or four grand for badly behaved rubbish, those with significant health issues and those on the verge of drawing their pensions? And as for cries of "they cost such & such to breed..." how much does it really cost to chuck a load of cobs or scrappy ponies out to get on with it?

 

[Dixiegirl]

I would recommend looking at the lady In Kendal, beautiful natural native ponies

 

[scats]

This may well be so, but why should anyone be expected to pay three or four grand for badly behaved rubbish, those with significant health issues and those on the verge of drawing their pensions? And as for cries of "they cost such & such to breed..." how much does it really cost to chuck a load of cobs or scrappy ponies out to get on with it?

Exactly this. We aren’t looking at purposefully bred ponies. I understand it would be different if we were.

Low end small coloured cobs and the unregistered native types we are looking at are not the result of carefully planned breeding programs with extensive veterinary treatment and numerous scans and checks for the mare. They are usually result of lobbing a colt in with a load of young mares and seeing what plops out next year.

 

[Rowreach]

This may well be so, but why should anyone be expected to pay three or four grand for badly behaved rubbish, those with significant health issues and those on the verge of drawing their pensions? And as for cries of "they cost such & such to breed..." how much does it really cost to chuck a load of cobs or scrappy ponies out to get on with it?

Exactly this. We aren’t looking at purposefully bred ponies. I understand it would be different if we were.

Low end small coloured cobs and the unregistered native types we are looking at are not the result of carefully planned breeding programs with extensive veterinary treatment and numerous scans and checks for the mare. They are usually result of lobbing a colt in with a load of young mares and seeing what plops out next year.

Well there's your answer. By looking for "low end", cheap ponies the market is created, people breed without thought, people with little knowledge are starting them poorly, and it's the animals that suffer yet again. Everything has gone up in price, horses are no different, and the days of buying a bargain project for £500 are gone.

For too long people have expected average horses to cost a couple of grand and are now shocked that something nice but nothing special is setting them back five figures.

There's a big gap in the middle of the horse producing business (the sort of horse that the majority of people want) because it's not worth anyone's while to produce them. So the result is that the low end becomes more expensive.

 

[LEC]

i kind of feel your pain. In your situation, I would start listing any you are interested in and then coming back to them after 3 weeks and seeing if still for sale. I also think the bin end of the market is the worst area to deal with as a lot of unrealistic expectations. I would be much more cold at the end of the viewing. Offer them a price and saying you have my number at the end if you change your mind. I don’t think you are going to get one for £500/1k but you might be able to knock of £1-1.5k which would probably be a fairer valuation.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Arabs and partbreds are amazing value for money… just saying

 

[Old school]

There are very few people about who will do the work to get a youngster off the leg and take small money. That day is gone in my experience. I don’t see any young people out hunting making those cobs that go on for decades being safe, forward and giving tons of happiness owner/rider. Traditionally sold to UK market.

Much easier to earn money inside, warm, dry and profitable via online business/work. I have one capable daughter who could the early stages of producing a horse, and do a super job, but she would not dream of doing it cheaply for someone else to benefit. Not even for her mother!!!

 

[sollimum]

There are very few people about who will do the work to get a youngster off the leg and take small money. That day is gone in my experience. I don’t see any young people out hunting making those cobs that go on for decades being safe, forward and giving tons of happiness owner/rider. Traditionally sold to UK market.

Much easier to earn money inside, warm, dry and profitable via online business/work. I have one capable daughter who could the early stages of producing a horse, and do a super job, but she would not dream of doing it cheaply for someone else to benefit. Not even for her mother!!!

 

[maya2008]

Cost to chuck them in a field and get on with it?

The days of people paying £60 per acre per YEAR are nearly over. Land costs around £22000 per acre anywhere south of about Shropshire. Round where I live and other friends within 100 miles or so are paying between £60 and £100 per acre for just a field. So 12 months to get pregnant and have foal. 36-42 months from birth until backing. 54x£60= £3240

£300 for passport and initial vet check after foaling. £135 for initial course of vaccines then £45 a year for the next two if you buy at 3.5yo. Wormer. Insurance. Hay in the winter at £12 per week per pony for a small one - another cost that has gone up. Say you hay in just Dec through Feb. 12 weeks minimum x mare’s pregnancy year and 3 years to adulthood. £576

I will assume hooves left to break off naturally and wormer not done. No insurance.

So…backing. £200-250 per week x minimum 6 weeks. £1200. Handling if not done already would be another 3-4 weeks so £800 more.

So how much, minimum, does it cost to chuck them in a field, and get them to just about sat on and basic riding away but no further? £5000-5800 - more if anyone has bothered to worm them or look at their feet.

Cheaper is only a real possibility if someone along the way made a loss. If you want someone to back your horse for free, then £3800 would be a basic cost.

I buy cheap - feral and off the moors cheap. All the handling still to do, cost no one any money for land rent growing up, but also had no wormer, insurance, hoof care, vaccinations or handling. Even so, it would cost me the equivalent in time to £2000 to handle and back, plus I then have to add the vaccination cost. To get them to the point where, given their feral history, I can confidently pass them on to someone else? You’re looking at six months of work. So six months of field rent (£360) and hay, and feed, and six months of at least an hour of my time 6 days a week to ride/care for them (assuming riding 3-4x week because they are young, poo picking, groundwork etc taking up the rest of the time). Even if I only paid myself minimum wage that’s around £1700. So if I paid £750 for an uncatchable pony who someone can’t wait to get rid of (and that’s the going price for a feral Welsh A so bigger would be more) then I would have to add over £4000 to that when I sell as a 4yo to break even in terms of time and money.

I enjoy making a project but we make them for ourselves because no one will pay what it costs to nicely train a pony. Then we watch the disasters at SJ and think…well…if people would pay a decent price for a well produced pony, they wouldn’t be in that situation!

 

[sollimum]

Why not buy a sound young cob, instill ground manners and have it professionally backed. That would seem a better way than sorting out a pony that has been started incorrectly.

 

[gallopingby]

There are very few people about who will do the work to get a youngster off the leg and take small money. That day is gone in my experience. I don’t see any young people out hunting making those cobs that go on for decades being safe, forward and giving tons of happiness owner/rider. Traditionally sold to UK market.

Much easier to earn money inside, warm, dry and profitable via online business/work. I have one capable daughter who could the early stages of producing a horse, and do a super job, but she would not dream of doing it cheaply for someone else to benefit. Not even for her mother!!!

Sadly there are very few people able to do the work we used to do when breaking ponies. Unless young people have access to absorbing the knowledge required, often subconsciously they’re unlikely to gain it these days. No ‘free’ rides for helping out, bareback to the field etc and many of the remaining riding schools no long hack instead using an arena or indoor for lessons.

 

[follysienna]

It's a shame you weren't looking a little while ago, there were a few within your budget in the online NF pony sales. Unbacked but ready to crack on with ponies went for under £1000. Next sale isn't until the Spring, and I think they're aiming for one in person.

Join all the native Facebook pages. I often see just backed welshies etc for under 3k.

 

[maya2008]

Sadly there are very few people able to do the work we used to do when breaking ponies. Unless young people have access to absorbing the knowledge required, often subconsciously they’re unlikely to gain it these days. No ‘free’ rides for helping out, bareback to the field etc and many of the remaining riding schools no long hack instead using an arena or indoor for lessons.

My kids can and have done so. But after all their hard work, that feral pony we bought for £750 is still only ‘worth’ £1200 6 months later or £1800 a year later after all the exposure to shows and the wider world because no one wants a youngster. So again, no point in doing a project to sell, because after 6 months of rent and some winter hay you get less than £200 for your hard work.

I had the perfect pony for sale last year - perfect on the ground, looks after tots on the lead, takes tots off it, takes a nervous child round a course of jumps, takes a more confident child out to have fun without caring about spooky fillers, safe in the heaviest of traffic or the biggest open field. But young. So did anyone want to pay more than about £1800 for her? Nope. So here she stays so we can have fun on her until those legs are truly dangling. She gets her small child fix once a week with my friend’s children and my son gets to relax on her and have fun the rest of the time.

An acquaintance enquired about her but decided they didn’t want to pay over £2k for anything. Fair enough. So they wandered off and bought a pony for under a grand, that has health issues, is dangerous in traffic and needs rebacking. They are now paying someone to do the work. No such thing as a good cheap pony!

 

[LEC]

There are very few people about who will do the work to get a youngster off the leg and take small money. That day is gone in my experience. I don’t see any young people out hunting making those cobs that go on for decades being safe, forward and giving tons of happiness owner/rider. Traditionally sold to UK market.

Much easier to earn money inside, warm, dry and profitable via online business/work. I have one capable daughter who could the early stages of producing a horse, and do a super job, but she would not dream of doing it cheaply for someone else to benefit. Not even for her mother!!!

Because it’s not worth it. I have a 5yo producing to sell. I will want 5 figures because the time and effort which has gone in. He has had hours and hours of my time and experience. Cobs are not worth the money - expensive to buy in the first place and then have a ceiling on price which a very smart and talented sporthorse does not have (unless it has issues)

 

[scats]

My friend isn’t on here, but she did come and have a nosey and appreciates the different thoughts.

Personally I think I will always struggle to get my head around just how high prices at the lower end have gone. Do I think they were previously around grand too low? Yes, without a doubt. I think your previous £800 4 year old basic 13hh cob should have fetched £1500-1800, maybe £2k. But I really struggle with these now being £4-5k.

And I think breaking down the costs of what a horse costs to raise or keep is a bit of a non-issue. If I worked out what Millie has cost me over the last 6 years in stabling, bedding, hay, worming, teeth, feet etc, I can’t realistically expect to recoup that money back if I ever sell her.
It reminds me of the time someone was selling a pony that she bought in error as a complete novice and found herself completely over horsed. Someone offered to give her what she paid for it and she responded with a list of what the pony had cost her to keep for the 4 months she had had it, down to the price of the wheelbarrow and tools she purchased.

Friend is going to enquire about some unbroken youngsters, anyway.

 

[Old school]

Curious, genuinely, why you see costs as non issue? Maybe I am misunderstanding the nuance. Apologies if so.

 

[scats]

Curious, genuinely, why you see costs as non issue? Maybe I am misunderstanding the nuance. Apologies if so.

Because the reality is they cost far more to keep than we can realistically expect back?

Millie has cost me well over £20k since I’ve owned her. Do I think I can recoup that back selling her? Does that make her worth £20k straight off?
And then how far do you go? Livery fees, bedding, hay… how much petrol it cost me to get there and back to see to her twice a day?

 

[Old school]

Oh I see now. I thought you meant the cost to produce to the stage mentioned in your first post. Apologies, now I understand.

 

[scats]

Oh I see now. I thought you meant the cost to produce to the stage mentioned in your first post. Apologies, now I understand.

Sorry, I might not have explained myself very well x

I do come at things from a different angle to most (ASD brain) so I recognise I often have a point of view that’s maybe too black and white, who knows?

 

[Ceifer]

As an aside and this isn’t aimed at OP’s friend.
Years ago I used to work for a dealer specialising in this type of horse. They were 2k-4k back then. We used to get them from Ireland and have a quick turnaround.
You would be amazed at the amount of people who would turn up saying they wanted a low level horse to hack, bit of schooling and then drop into conversation
“Do you think they’d do an elementary test?”
Or
“Do you think they’d jump round a 90-1m course” bearing in mind most people were quite novice so doing either of these activities in their mind would be the horse being saintly enough to disregard any mistakes the rider made and take them round on autopilot.

People want to buy a horse to build their confidence and experience up and then do more with them. That’s a different kettle of fish

 

[gallopingby]

I think you need to differentiate how you expect things to work out. As an example l paid 7k 20 years ago for a 6 year old 14.2 for my daughter and then probably another few thousands for someone to take him out to a few shows to make sure he was going to be safe out and about. Shortly after l had bought him someone came up to me wondering if l would sell!! He wasn’t bought as a pony to sell on and lived happily at home all his life with little vet input until last year. I could have sold him easily and was offered huge sums of money but was never even tempted. There’s a difference between breeding when the intention is to eventually sell on and the person with one or two leisure horses. Also many first ponies/horses seem to stay in the same ownership for ever sometimes being lent to friends or family.