Horse taking off with me - advice please

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Oriel

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Whilst out hacking yesterday my horse took off twice with me - both times I managed to pull him up but with difficulty.

My horse is an 8 year old Andalusian, he's in a snaffle with copper roller and is fed 1 scoop of Safe and Sound divided into 2 feeds with magnesium, seaweed and Pollenex supplements. I have restricted his grazing area and at the moment he is out 24/7.

He's always quite lively and tends to jog trot for much of our rides (I hack out mostly with a schooling session just every now and then) our hacks are around 1.5 - 2 hrs.

Yesterday was windy and he was a bit on his toes but everything seemed normal considering the weather. The first time he took off was when walking along a fence line on the downs. From a walk he took off like a rocket, got his head down almost between his knees and I just about managed to re-gain control when we were heading for a gate. The second time we were walking downhill when he dropped his shoulder and launched off to the right - he galloped off over the field. Unfortunately because he turned so sharply the left rein pulled through my hand and for the first few strides I was getting hold of it again. I regained control by the one rein stop - it took a while though we ended up coming round in a large arc by that time we'd covered a fair distance.

He didn't settle at all after that and I could feel him gathering himself for another episode a few times after that - in the end my husband and I swapped horses and I rode his horse home.

I haves owned my horse for 18 months and he has had napping issues before and has tanked off once before. My first thought is to change his bit so at least I have brakes but wondered if anyone might have other advice or advice on what bit to change to?

All advice will be gratefully received !
 
Hi, dont change his bit, this will just mask the problem and he will resent you for it. I own and train many Andalusians, Stallions, Geldings and Mares, and they all have one thing in common, they are not novice rides. (Not to say one couldnt be, i just havent met one so far) They get bored very easily and like to have a challenge, so maybe you should try more schooling so he concentrates his mind a little, i dont know your horse obviously but i know mine would get very bored and probably find ways to make hacking more exciting if we did alot of it. Maybe try some schooling before you go for your hack, to get his mind on you. Hope that was of some help anyway xx
 
I had an issue with Fab taking off when he was younger - sounds like yours does what he did - head down to take hold then tank. I changed him to a waterford so he couldn't take hold of the bit. Worked wonders! First time he tried to do i took great pleasure in his peabrain working over time trying to figure out why he couldn't go and how i had control!! I only needed to use it for a couple of weeks before he stopped doing it and now only use it if we're out in company as he's bad following others in canter.

Also heard cheltenham gag works for this sort of situation but not tried it myself.
 
Give him something useful to do with all that energy. I would still hack instead of more schooling at home, but school on the hack, lots of transistions, shoulder in, leg yield etc & nice forwards paces rather than jogging & tanking off.
 
If a horse naffed off with me the first thing I would do is change their bit

However do you have an independent seat? Or do you use the reins to balance yourself on the odd occasion?

For an Andy I would probably plug for a pelham with two reins, so I had brakes when required and a snaffle rein for 99% of the time

However so good solid work takes the edge off and jogging when not asked is a total no no in my books.
 
I've also used the Waterford in situations like this and it's been fab, as other poster said I also only had it for a few weeks before going back to snaffle :D
 
And sometimes, on a really fit horse, they do need to be " bottomed out". So when I was eventing and had my mare at that level, she could be really quite hot and needed a good work out if there had been too long a gap between competitons. Even now, aged 25, there are times she still needs a good strong and long canter to make her settle again. The difference is that nowadays I let her decide when she would like to pull up as we don't get as far as we used to!
 
Thanks for the replies,

I'll take a look at the website Aengus

Hi, dont change his bit, this will just mask the problem and he will resent you for it. I own and train many Andalusians, Stallions, Geldings and Mares, and they all have one thing in common, they are not novice rides. (Not to say one couldnt be, i just havent met one so far) They get bored very easily and like to have a challenge, so maybe you should try more schooling so he concentrates his mind a little, i dont know your horse obviously but i know mine would get very bored and probably find ways to make hacking more exciting if we did alot of it. Maybe try some schooling before you go for your hack, to get his mind on you. Hope that was of some help anyway xx
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I do try to vary what he does and our hacks are along different routes - I'm lucky in that we have masses of bridleways here and we're always in countryside. He does seem to enjoy going out but if he doesn't want to do something its very hard to persuade him to do it. For instance, puddles are a complete no, no as far as he's concerned. He'd rather go backwards up a bank and into barbed wire than walk through one, so he is headstrong.

I knew he wouldn't be a novice ride - I didn't want a plod but I need a bit more control should the same happen again. What bit do you use with your Andalusians Susieoci?

If a horse naffed off with me the first thing I would do is change their bit

However do you have an independent seat? Or do you use the reins to balance yourself on the odd occasion?

For an Andy I would probably plug for a pelham with two reins, so I had brakes when required and a snaffle rein for 99% of the time

However so good solid work takes the edge off and jogging when not asked is a total no no in my books.
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I think/hope I have a totally independent seat and don't use the reins for support - I'm pretty sure that I'd have come off both times if I hadn't because he got his head down between his knees the first time and I all but lost my reins on the second.

Does anyone else have any advice please?
 
I'd go with most of what others have said.

1) more schooling, including whilst hacking.

2) change bit to a proper gag, the kind with cheekpieces running through the bit rings. Not a bubble bit 3 ring thing, those are almost a pelham without the curb. Pelhams lower the head, gags raise it.

3) ride with 2 reins, one on the snaffle rein, one on the gag rein. If he tanks off, you may need to shake loose or drop the snaffle rein to maximize the gag action.

4) cut out the safe and sound feed, he clearly doesn't need it. If you must give something, change to a lower calorie feed eg one that is just unmolassed chaff and nothing else.
 
Forgot to say, horse sounds like he's tanking off from excitement, boredom, or just because he can! It doesn't sound like a pain reaction. Another way to stop him is to cross one rein over the wither and lean down on it, jerk the other rein upwards a few times, then swap reins and repeat. It will stop most horses quickly, but do it regularly and you'll definitely end up with a hard mouthed horse, so save it for emergencies. You're also in prime position for coming off over the head if horse puts the breaks on quicker than you were expecting. It's not the safest method of stopping, but if he's about to run you in front of a lorry or something it could be useful.
 
Oriel said:
Thanks for the replies,

I'll take a look at the website Aengus



I do try to vary what he does and our hacks are along different routes - I'm lucky in that we have masses of bridleways here and we're always in countryside. He does seem to enjoy going out but if he doesn't want to do something its very hard to persuade him to do it. For instance, puddles are a complete no, no as far as he's concerned. He'd rather go backwards up a bank and into barbed wire than walk through one, so he is headstrong.

I knew he wouldn't be a novice ride - I didn't want a plod but I need a bit more control should the same happen again. What bit do you use with your Andalusians Susieoci?


Every horse on our yard is on a snaffle, no matter what breed, age, experience and issues they have, then when they are upto a high level ie passage, piaffe, perfectly with lightest contact on reins they are moved onto a double, bits should never be used as breaks, that is what your back is for, iv helped owners retrain a few horses now whos mouths have been badly damaged from bits such as gags, horses lose such confidence in their riders when they are forced instead of being trained to understand and want to be with the rider, i like my horses to want to be with me because they like me not because iv stuck a horrid bit in their mouth so they dont have a choice, just my opinion. There is one on our yard Andalusian, that hates puddles to, really hates them, and we just encourage him through them an then make a big fuss of him he is quite a stressy horse though. Just be careful whatever you do with him anyway, put yourself in his shoes try other things before harsh bits x
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Sorry to hear about your horrid hack.

Did he attempt to tank off with your husband?
Were the horse flies biting?
I notice you have restricted his grazing area and I wonder if he now has enough room for a buck and a squeal to get rid of some energy when turned out.

Hope you get sorted.
 
my one piece of advice would be "don't fight with them" my horse used to tank off all the time and for the first few yrs it used to share the hell out of me, so I used to try and fight with her to stop! but now I just let her go and eventually I asked her to come back, once she's got it out of her system, and it seems to make a difference! I must say I did change her bit as well though!

but she was in a mullen mouth pelham, which she could bite down on and get her head between her legs and i couldn't do anything about it, so I changed to a waterford dutch gag and because its lots of little links she can't get a grip on it!
 
Windy conditions can be a nightmare with some horses as they use their sense of smell to determine where they are and to sense danger. This can be seen by a newly cut tree on an established hacking route will cause most horses to become anxious to some degree. Therefore in windy conditions you will need to be more aware that something could trigger your horse off. Hopefully with time and age your horse will become less sensitive to the effects of windy conditions. Trying a new bit may mask the problem but if it works for you then use it.
 
The first thing I would do is stop the jogging when he is being asked to walk. It sounds a bit as if he has got used to expecting to get his own way and can't see any reason why he shouldn't just P off if he wants. I would do some exercises in the school to get him listening, such as walk for five, trot for five, walk for five (strides that is ) Or if that is too challenging for him, ten or fifteen. Also trot half a twenty meter circle, canter half the circle and so on. That way he gets used used to you deciding the pace, not him.
 
Oriel said:
Whilst out hacking yesterday my horse took off twice with me - both times I managed to pull him up but with difficulty.

My horse is an 8 year old Andalusian, he's in a snaffle with copper roller and is fed 1 scoop of Safe and Sound divided into 2 feeds with magnesium, seaweed and Pollenex supplements. I have restricted his grazing area and at the moment he is out 24/7.

I would cut out all feed, if he is on restricted grazing I'm not sure why he has any food, My mare is a completel fruitloop on any grain & it could be all the trigger your horse needs.

He's always quite lively and tends to jog trot for much of our rides (I hack out mostly with a schooling session just every now and then) our hacks are around 1.5 - 2 hrs.

He has much too much energy & is not being very disciplined. I would seek some help with his schooling, maybe he needs more stimulation and you need to assert more control. Does he have companions he can play with, he sounds like an energetic boy

Yesterday was windy and he was a bit on his toes but everything seemed normal considering the weather. The first time he took off was when walking along a fence line on the downs. From a walk he took off like a rocket, got his head down almost between his knees and I just about managed to re-gain control when we were heading for a gate. The second time we were walking downhill when he dropped his shoulder and launched off to the right - he galloped off over the field. Unfortunately because he turned so sharply the left rein pulled through my hand and for the first few strides I was getting hold of it again. I regained control by the one rein stop - it took a while though we ended up coming round in a large arc by that time we'd covered a fair distance.

He didn't settle at all after that and I could feel him gathering himself for another episode a few times after that - in the end my husband and I swapped horses and I rode his horse home.

I haves owned my horse for 18 months and he has had napping issues before and has tanked off once before. My first thought is to change his bit so at least I have brakes but wondered if anyone might have other advice or advice on what bit to change to?

All advice will be gratefully received !
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The problem is that if you are causing his episodes by riding tensely, hanging onto his mouth or similar then upping your bit could make him really rebellious and he could start leaping or rearing. You should be able to hack out on a loose rein, I'm sure you would rather. This sounds like a management issue - he has too much energy, and a schooling issue - you aren't in charge.

I also don't get the puddle issue. If he doesn't do the small things you ask him to do then you aren't in charge, which is why he is so insubordinate.

I do get how difficult it can be, just how stubborn and powerful horses like him can be. Sadly they aren't neccessarily the best breed for a sedate hacking lifestyle.
 
siennamum, yes, I agree that Andalusians aren't the easiest of horses. I knew that when I bought him but I don't expect to just pootle around with him and I'm not tense or nervous of him. He does gets quite a good workout when we ride out together and we have a wide variety of routes to take. I have a very soft contact when I ride - my husband says its too soft. Perhaps if I had a stronger contact I wouldn't have lost my rein when he took off.

The puddle thing is a work in progress... he really won't go through water unless he's behind another horse, right up close behind - he'll be in front for the whole ride and nothing really fazes him but then he'll see a puddle, spin and duck down behind my husband's horse. I have got him to walk through the edge of large puddles but we're working on attempting the large ones which take the whole path. He spent most of his life in Spain and I guess they didn't have many puddles there.

I'm of a mind to get a 2 ring Dutch gag with a snaffle mouthpiece and try that ... Would that be the way to go?
 
Just read the rest of your post Siennasmum.. Unfortunately he doesn't have any field companions as he's a bit of a problem with our other horses. He simply won't leave them alone and won't back down to the dominant horse who is considerably bigger than him. I had to rescue him when he was in with the others as he had been cornered and was about to be double barrelled. He's now in an adjoining paddock to the others with 2 sheep. I can't even allow them to be too close over the fence because he strikes out and pulls his shoes off in the stock fencing. I know its not great and wish he could go in with another but don't want to risk injury.

I give him hard feed just to give him his supplements. He has Safe and Sound which is safe for laminitic horses so I thought that would be OK. Perhaps I should just give him chaff?
 
You'll see we are working with an Iberian, in my post about saddle fitting, they are 'different' so you have my sympathies.

In your place, if you are confident that you aren't setting him off by being nervous or hanging on, then I would want to up the bitting to ensure you are safe. I have read people use pelhams with Iberians and they seem to like them......
 
put your stirrups up a hole or two and when he goes make sure you lean BACK not forward, hand low, and brace yourself with your legs. If that doesnt work, swap permanently with your oh....
 
I'd have thought shortening my stirrup leathers would make me even more vulnerable given that he's very agile and takes off like greased lightning?

Swapping with husband isn't an option - I need to sort the situation out.
 
Jockeys ride the way they do in order to achieve greater speed which is the opposite to what I want to do!
 
I have an Irish sports horse/thoroughbred cross who is 7 yrs and also quite spirited which I quite like, and often jogs when walking or shakes his head if he's bored.

Haven't hacked him out for a while, due to a broken collerbone, but he has been kept exercising with others, either in school work or jumping clinics.

Took him out on his own last Wednesday evening on my own, and I think a combination of seeing a deer then doing an about turn after a long gentle descent to have a canter up, and trotted for a bit, then asked for a canter and he was off.
He has got strong before, but I have managed to pull him up, but this time he went. I tried several hard pulls but he took no notice, so after some time I decided to aim him at some low branches to slow him down...that worked he stopped on the spot...but I didn't, and flew nearly hitting the trunk before landing with a huge splat. Luckily, my plated collerbone remained intact with the rest of me.

I tried to get a better grip on the reins by shortening, but think this may have lent me forward. I wasn't gripping with my legs, and not panicking and took some time to decide what to do, but certainly wasn't comfy with the situation.

He uses a loose ring snaffle, with a rolling link, and have thought before to try a gag on a hack, so there are some brakes if he does do a runner. I have resisted so far, as don't want a harsh bit for the sake of it, but am feeling that a gag with a link, may be soft enough but do give some brakes in an emergency.

I want to take him out and do more with him, but am worried that I may not have brakes in an emergency if I don't change his bit.
 
It sounds like you were lucky not to damage your collarbone again Wes.

What you describe is very like my situation at the weekend. My horse often races with my husband's horse and can be very fast indeed but, as with you, this time he really took off and I felt I had no control at all. I'm always loath to say a horse bolted because I've heard people say that but what they really mean is that the horse did a few strides of un-asked for canter, but that feeling of just being 'taken off with' is not pleasant. They can cover a lot of ground very quickly - we were in a very large open space (up on downland) and I wondered where we'd end up! :eek:

I'm going to get a 2 ring Dutch gag just to be on the safe side. Let me know what you decide to do.
 
I was in our yards 250 acres of woodland, and on the main wide path but it goes up and down, has some sharp corners, and through covered areas which were still very muddy, so the thought of galloping through wet mud did not appeal, and the path was narrow enough to prevent a wide arc. to single rein him.

We also have a big maxi-cob who is a 12 year old school master we bought off one of the yard owners daughters, he has been shown and "done everything", but he is always in a Dutch gag with a french link. They advised to have the reins on the snaffle for school work, and then drop down a ring for hacking.
I think I may try this, as it has a french link to avoid the nutcracker of a single joint, but has the ability to change severity depending on the reins, and just be very aware of being soft when hacking in normal circumstances.

I have read several articles suggesting the cross rein halting, but thought you were supposed to break then release rather than just apply constant pressure.
 
Oriel said:
I'm going to get a 2 ring Dutch gag just to be on the safe side. Let me know what you decide to do.
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before you do this i would find out how is is taking off with you ie opening his mouth to avoid the bit (put on a flash), crossing his jaw(grakle), holding the bit(waterford), setting his neck etc your husband might have noticed what your horse did as this will be the key to what tack/bit you need to control him while you get it sorted and then you'll be able to return to your original tack (if you want to).

also if you do get a gag then ride in double reins with the curb rein being the brakes. you can then ride in the snaffle bit of the gag with normal reins leaving the curb on his neck, then when you reach more open ground pick up the curb and ride with double reins and then for emergancies use just the curb. this works a treat as i have done it with my mare. it gives you the knowledge of extra control without having to change the type of mouth piece. ie i use a loose ring snaffle so i chose a loose ring snaffle bubble bit.

we were back to using just the loose ring after a couple of months, most of the last month was just leaving the curb on her neck.
 
I'd always been told that double reins would be too complicated, but hadn't considered having two but only riding with one pair with the other just there for emergencies...quite like the sound of that, though there are sure to be 100 posts why not to!
 
i used to call the curb rein my emergancy breaks!! riding with double reins isnt as difficult as it might seem either try it out in the school first learning how to pick up the second set as and when is needed and then you'll be away! :)
 
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