Horse uninsurable for public liability

Also may be worth PMing an HHoer called BHS_Official, or something similar, who crops up sometimes on here to answer queries on the activities of the BHS. Assuming that they are genuinely are who they say they are, I suppose.

If the BHS third party insurance doesn't cover nutty horses, then a lot of people need to know..
 
Usually an official BHS representative crops up on these threads.
Where are they now?

Eta cross posted .
 
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If the BHS third party insurance doesn't cover nutty horses, then a lot of people need to know..
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...or-public-liability/page4#VyrEsVEbHsEQqAuc.99

Judging from the amount of people that come on here asking for help with "bolting, rearing and bronking" there should be many horses that are uninsurable if the owners were honest when taking out or updating their insurance.

It makes sense for the companies to decide whether to risk insuring an individual but in this case the behaviour is only displayed under saddle/ long reining so as long as her rearing does not cause an accident to a third party the risk is not high, if she jumps out of her field and kicks a car that is nothing to do with the rearing so it is or should be covered, if she is being ridden rears gets loose and kicks the car you should not be covered as you have been "negligent" much the same as anyone with insurance if they contribute in some way to the "accident" by failing to take due care or have not previously declared an issue likely to be a problem they may find their insurance is void and they become personally liable for any damages.

I cannot see why they will not offer cover if she is turned out and not going, intentionally, outside of the yard, you may find the YO has a good enough cover for this in her blanket policy but you will have no personal injury insurance.
 
Honestly if any of you guys ring up an insurer and ask them if they will insure a horse that is a known rearer under saddle, for PL as a horse at rest and you get a yes please tell me who it as and an extension number and name to the person that said so.

I was shocked too. I haven't tried KBIS yet and I am still waiting for a firm answer from BHS but NFU, petplan, South Essex and E&L have all said no public liability. I would love to hear otherwise :(







be positive said:
If the BHS third party insurance doesn't cover nutty horses, then a lot of people need to know..
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...or-public-liability/page4#VyrEsVEbHsEQqAuc.99

Judging from the amount of people that come on here asking for help with "bolting, rearing and bronking" there should be many horses that are uninsurable if the owners were honest when taking out or updating their insurance.

It makes sense for the companies to decide whether to risk insuring an individual but in this case the behaviour is only displayed under saddle/ long reining so as long as her rearing does not cause an accident to a third party the risk is not high, if she jumps out of her field and kicks a car that is nothing to do with the rearing so it is or should be covered, if she is being ridden rears gets loose and kicks the car you should not be covered as you have been "negligent" much the same as anyone with insurance if they contribute in some way to the "accident" by failing to take due care or have not previously declared an issue likely to be a problem they may find their insurance is void and they become personally liable for any damages.

I cannot see why they will not offer cover if she is turned out and not going, intentionally, outside of the yard, you may find the YO has a good enough cover for this in her blanket policy but you will have no personal injury insurance.
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FfionWinnie said:
I have to say the same thought crossed my mind. Good money after bad. Trade her in to a decent dealer with full disclosure for something else or shoot it.
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Have to admit, the shooting thought did cross my mind......and that is having gone through the trauma of shooting a six year old a couple of weeks ago.....without going into details it's taken me eleven months to get there. It is never easy when they are young; much easier when older, or a clear cut broken leg/colic. You have my sympathy Michen.
 
Guys- I can't currently expand on any situation that may or may not be surrounding the horse in question- I wish I could. But you all should (by now I hope!) know that whatever the situation currently is or isn't that there is a VERY very good reason for it.

My question was regarding public liability insurance and there's been some good advice on here regarding it so thank you. Will try again tomorrow.
 
I don't know how you have ended up with this problem as so many horses have been known to rear either in the field in play or out and about if they are frightened if they are that way inclined.

I am presuming the insurance company found out about the rearing as a result of a claim or investigation to see if the rearing was caused by a medical reason.

You could try Julie Andrews who offers advice on insurance interestingly the kbis form she has on her website does not ask any questions related to horse behaviour or if you have been turned down by other insurers.

http://www.jahis.co.uk/index.html

I think it is very risky not to have public liability insurance as even if you do not take her out of the field if someone went into the field and injured I wonder if you could end up being liable?
 
Michen, if you have no third party insurance on this mare, please sell her immediately with full disclosure to whoever you can get to buy her, or have her shot. She could ruin the rest of your life. All it would take is for her to kick someone in the head tomorrow, and it does happen, and leave them needing support for the rest of their lives, and you will be forced to make yourself bankrupt in order not to be paying off the damages for the rest of your life.

If you intend to sue, and if things are still the same as when my friends sued, then I think you need to send her to auction in order to prove that you got fair market value for her. As long as you declare the rearing, I can understand why you would do this, but in your shoes I would have her shot. Easy for me to say, I didn't borrow to buy her and you did.

I am so, so sorry that you find yourself in such a dreadful, stressful situation :(
 
Did you ring your insurers and lay it on thick about what a nut job it is?? There are plenty of horses I have worked with which were quirkier than the one you have but all were insured as high value competition horses or racehorses and were never refused cover. I have a mare who is a reputed nut job to ride, never cocked a leg over her myself as I bought her for peanuts as a broodmare. She is insured PL only with no problems.
 
That is SUPER helpful thank you so much!!! Will talk to them first thing tomorrow. :D



SO1 said:
I don't know how you have ended up with this problem as so many horses have been known to rear either in the field in play or out and about if they are frightened if they are that way inclined.

I am presuming the insurance company found out about the rearing as a result of a claim or investigation to see if the rearing was caused by a medical reason.

You could try Julie Andrews who offers advice on insurance interestingly the kbis form she has on her website does not ask any questions related to horse behaviour or if you have been turned down by other insurers.

http://www.jahis.co.uk/index.html

I think it is very risky not to have public liability insurance as even if you do not take her out of the field if someone went into the field and injured I wonder if you could end up being liable?
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More complicated than that for reason I can't go in to but no not at all, just that she was a known rearer when asked to hack alone. I'm assuming you didn't declare that your horse was a consistent rearer though whereas I have to. The average horse owner isn't going to declare stuff like that, I mean I didn't even notice it saying in the policy wording that behavioural issues must be stated. It would never have occurred to me otherwise (but my situation is a little weird).

However bare bones of it is that if you ring up pp/SEIB/E&L etc and tell them you have a horse that is a known rearer, they will tell you they can't insure it for any kind of PL. But like I said if someone manages to get a different answer please tell me who!!!!!

minesadouble said:
Did you ring your insurers and lay it on thick about what a nut job it is?? There are plenty of horses I have worked with which were quirkier than the one you have but all were insured as high value competition horses or racehorses and were never refused cover. I have a mare who is a reputed nut job to ride, never cocked a leg over her myself as I bought her for peanuts as a broodmare. She is insured PL only with no problems.
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They understood that you wanted to insure her as an unridden animal only and that the rearing only manifested under saddle?

I'm so sorry that you are in this situation.
 
Yep totally understood. Apparently they can't separate out public liability aka you either have it or you don't and as she is a known consistent rearer...

It's shocking. I thought it was seib being picky. Then tried pp and two more. Same answer. Going to take it further with bhs tomorrow who initially referrered me back to seib as it's linked. Urgh.


Faracat;13035123]They understood that you wanted to insure her as an unridden animal only and that the rearing only manifested under saddle?

I'm so sorry that you are in this situation.
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Maybe if you can get her assessed by someone such as a vet or other professional to confirm that the rearing only happens under saddle you might be able to give this information to the insurers and they will be able to offer the PL with some exclusions such as if as if she is wearing a saddle.
 
I think it would be worth phoning the brokers mentioned to see if a more tailored/specific unridden PL insurance is possible. It bleddy well should be.

Good luck.
 
Hmm. Interesting idea. I've had her assessed and valued by two dealers but that's not quite the same. Will have another crack at it tomorrow. I think I was just a bit too exhausted with it all today to put up much of a fight about it.
 
You can also get it from WHW as part of their membership

http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/Membership-T-and-C

What I don't understand is how these organisations such as the BHS can offer these PL insurance without asking if the horse has any behavioral problems if that excludes you from having the insurance. I am sure when I joined the BHS as a gold member they did not ask me if my horse had any behaviour problems and I think if you have multiple horses are you covered for all your horses from one BHS or WHW PL insurance i.e the insurance does not seem to be linked to a named horse? I have PL with BHS but now I am not sure if I am properly covered as it is not for a named horse although I do have only one horse.
 
Thanks for that. I think the bhs issues just because their insurers are seib. Aka that's who your gold membership is through
My horse was insured seib and they withdrew Pl when I informed them of the issues. So bhs are referring me back to them. It's all a bit grey but I'll find out more tomorrow and update.
 
Hmm. You are drawing a blank for horse specific insurance. I wonder if there are other general PL insurance policies out there from "normal" insurers (e.g. aviva). When you do something like hang gliding you get PL cover, but I bet its not from a hang glider specific insurer (if you see what I mean). Just a thought really.
 
NPS offer PL with their membership and they are underwritten by Shearwater so might be worth a go. I don't suspect they will ask any questions about your horse when you join up and like the other organisational memberships I don't think they ask you to disclose any behavioral problems as the policy does not appear to be linked to a named horse.
 
I followed your thread Mitchen (didn't comment as not much to add to all the good advice already there and it was fast moving) but thought you'd sorted it out with the dealer? Why do you still have this very much misold horse? Not being funny with you btw but thought it was sorted?
 
This is a worrying thread .
If a horse who behaves entirely normally apart from the fact it refuses to long rien alone and hack out alone has it's PL withdrawn by a usually well requarded insurer .
If MIchen is referring to the mare that behaves in company but not alone it would be in work here as I have no issues with working with horses that don't work alone .
My horse of a life time spent a fair amount of time rearing she loved it , I had another who napped and hated road signs and whipped round regularily at the one at the end of the drive he particularly disliked that one.
So if this is really correct ,if your horse is insured with SEIB you all better get on the phone tomorrow and get clarified .
And I think perhaps we who are BHS members might stir them up a bit as well.
 
I am going to assume this mare is going through court and it can't be shot.

My mare has reared and injured me but has never affected my insurance.
 
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