Horse uninsurable for public liability

My wb rears under saddle, hacking alone and when she got stressed in the school. Phoned insurance company, Scottish Equestion, for a claim for vet work up and after finding KS she is now retired. Still insured PL even though she could still be tricky to handle. Not so much now.
 
MuddyGeorge said:
I followed your thread Mitchen (didn't comment as not much to add to all the good advice already there and it was fast moving) but thought you'd sorted it out with the dealer? Why do you still have this very much misold horse? Not being funny with you btw but thought it was sorted?
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These were my thoughts too. I'm sorry but something doesn't add up.
 
I've said numerous times, it's not just SEIB. I've tried to see if other main insurers would insure her and had the same answer. Petplan etc.

I am repeating what my insurers and others have told me. That as she has a known behavioural issue she is uninsurable for PL.

I challenge anyone to ring any of the insurance companies mentioned and get a different answer. I have more to try but so far the main ones have said no.



Goldenstar said:
This is a worrying thread .
If a horse who behaves entirely normally apart from the fact it refuses to long rien alone and hack out alone has it's PL withdrawn by a usually well requarded insurer .
If MIchen is referring to the mare that behaves in company but not alone it would be in work here as I have no issues with working with horses that don't work alone .
My horse of a life time spent a fair amount of time rearing she loved it , I had another who napped and hated road signs and whipped round regularily at the one at the end of the drive he particularly disliked that one.
So if this is really correct ,if your horse is insured with SEIB you all better get on the phone tomorrow and get clarified .
And I think perhaps we who are BHS members might stir them up a bit as well.
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Jeez, read my comments and put two and two together. I CANNOT comment about what horse is in discussions here. Not that I don't want to- but I CANT.

Now, for the rest of you who have understood that and offered some sound advice thank you - I have more people to ring today and other options to explore re insurance :)



gingernut81 said:
These were my thoughts too. I'm sorry but something doesn't add up.
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And please, I thought from my original post I could ask a question and get some advice re insurance without anyone wanting further info as I said I couldn't give it. If anyone has any more ideas re insurance I would love to hear them, but not more questioning on the background - it's stressful enough :( xx
 
Are you perhaps asking the wrong question?

What if instead of asking insurers whether they will insure a horse with a behavioural issue would you be better asking whether they require any information or declarations regarding the horses covered. Group policies like those offered by BHS and WHW normally cover any horses you own and don't require you to even specify how many horses you own.

Alternatively try speaking to your home contents insurer about whether they offer PL cover and whether it extends to Pets even if they live outside the home. If it does ask them what information they require if any. Often this is automatic cover so no information required.
 
Kat said:
Are you perhaps asking the wrong question?

What if instead of asking insurers whether they will insure a horse with a behavioural issue would you be better asking whether they require any information or declarations regarding the horses covered. Group policies like those offered by BHS and WHW normally cover any horses you own and don't require you to even specify how many horses you own.

Alternatively try speaking to your home contents insurer about whether they offer PL cover and whether it extends to Pets even if they live outside the home. If it does ask them what information they require if any. Often this is automatic cover so no information required.
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^^^this^^^

I'm covered for PL by my BDS membership, for any number of donkeys, horses, ponies. The only exclusions are things like hire and reward and racing. I have 11, which is clearly more than they would have in mind as 'normal', half of them are entire, and some came to me with issues, but they're still covered. It's just part of membership, and no questions about specific animals are asked.

In the event of a claim, there are questions relating to the horse, it's temperament, history and experience. I think this is so that they can defend a charge of negligence, which needs to be proven by the 3rd party before they can pay up - i.e. to help them limit their loss.
 
No-one sues a horse - they sue its owner - or rider - or both. It is YOU who needs Public Liability cover (which you get with BHS Gold Membership.) I have 96 horses - NONE of them has Public Liability Insurance - I do! (And it costs a small fortune when you have so many horses.)
 
Faracat said:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...umours-any-experience&p=13035249#post13035249

Michen look at this (Janet George's reply to AM's question about this thread).
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JG is quite correct PL insurance normally is for a person and essentially covers you against being sued by someone else. One horse policies might limit that cover to incidents involving a named animal and may cover others handling the horse on non-commercial circumstances but others cover you for any horse you are handling or riding and other policies extend to other types of liability too for example if you cause an accident as a cyclist or if your garden wall falls on a passing pedestrian.
 
Thanks I'm going to chat to the BHS again today. I did read the policy document and it says a bit about not paying out if claims were arising from circumstances that were undeclared (can't remember the exact wording) so I am hoping that wouldn't mean that if I needed to claim they could get out of it because the horse has known behavioural issues? If that makes sense. Hmmm.


Kat said:
Are you perhaps asking the wrong question?

What if instead of asking insurers whether they will insure a horse with a behavioural issue would you be better asking whether they require any information or declarations regarding the horses covered. Group policies like those offered by BHS and WHW normally cover any horses you own and don't require you to even specify how many horses you own.

Alternatively try speaking to your home contents insurer about whether they offer PL cover and whether it extends to Pets even if they live outside the home. If it does ask them what information they require if any. Often this is automatic cover so no information required.
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pennyturner said:
^^^this^^^

I'm covered for PL by my BDS membership, for any number of donkeys, horses, ponies. The only exclusions are things like hire and reward and racing. I have 11, which is clearly more than they would have in mind as 'normal', half of them are entire, and some came to me with issues, but they're still covered. It's just part of membership, and no questions about specific animals are asked.

In the event of a claim, there are questions relating to the horse, it's temperament, history and experience. I think this is so that they can defend a charge of negligence, which needs to be proven by the 3rd party before they can pay up - i.e. to help them limit their loss.
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The problem michen is now having is the fact she has informed her insurers that her horse has a behavioural problem so they have decided not to underwrite the risk, if they had not been told the insurers would have continued to provide cover and in the event of a claim if the behaviour was the cause of the accident then they may well have refused to pay out once they were aware of the full facts, having disclosed this she will now struggle to get cover from any company unless she lies, she now knows that she will not be covered if the rearing in some way contributes to an accident, it is a lose lose situation and I don't think there is a simple answer unless one of the companies will offer limited cover.

Insurance is a business and they will only offer cover if the risks are perceived to be reasonable, blanket cover such as BHS is ideal for most but they will still want to defend any claims and in this case they are not prepared to take the risk or expense of a possible claim.

I hope you can get something sorted otherwise you really have no options left.
 
Just checked the BHS policy for sure. Assuming I can get a straight answer out of them and that I would be protected it says they won't pay for " for any claim arising from circumstances known to the insured prior to the commencement of the insured's coverage under this insurance


So I knew she reared before I took out coverage. If she did ever injure someone or whatnot, surely they can just say "well she had a dangerous behavioural problem" and therefore not be covered? Which is other insurances companies justification in not insuring her personally for PL.

I don't know... It's so grey and I really don't like being at risk like this. ARGH!!!!


be positive said:
The problem michen is now having is the fact she has informed her insurers that her horse has a behavioural problem so they have decided not to underwrite the risk, if they had not been told the insurers would have continued to provide cover and in the event of a claim if the behaviour was the cause of the accident then they may well have refused to pay out once they were aware of the full facts, having disclosed this she will now struggle to get cover from any company unless she lies, she now knows that she will not be covered if the rearing in some way contributes to an accident, it is a lose lose situation and I don't think there is a simple answer unless one of the companies will offer limited cover.

Insurance is a business and they will only offer cover if the risks are perceived to be reasonable, blanket cover such as BHS is ideal for most but they will still want to defend any claims and in this case they are not prepared to take the risk or expense of a possible claim.

I hope you can get something sorted otherwise you really have no options left.
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SEIB aren't actually the Insurers, they are the brokers. Having looked at the policy online it seems that the insurers are Brit. it may be worth speaking to SEIB and asking if they have any other products available that would be willing to cover you.
 
Michen said:
Just checked the BHS policy for sure. Assuming I can get a straight answer out of them and that I would be protected it says they won't pay for " for any claim arising from circumstances known to the insured prior to the commencement of the insured's coverage under this insurance


So I knew she reared before I took out coverage. If she did ever injure someone or whatnot, surely they can just say "well she had a dangerous behavioural problem" and therefore not be covered? Which is other insurances companies justification in not insuring her personally for PL.

I don't know... It's so grey and I really don't like being at risk like this. ARGH!!!!
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I would say if the issue is the horse is a rearer, then they wouldn't cover any claims resulting from this, i.e. horse rears and injures someone. If she escaped and damaged a car then that should be covered.
 
Just got the second definite no from NFU. their reasoning is that there's no way to prove the horse wasn't under saddle... Even if it's without a bridle or saddle. WHAT!!!!!!????!!??
 
away from the stress that this is causing you right now. it may be worth contacting the editorial team for horse and hound and ask if they will do an article on this as its a crazy situation that could potentially affect a lot of people if its found that the horse is known to spook buck or tank off. if the horse is in the field is the yard owner covered for any damage from her escaping on their insurance? if so is it posible for her to have very specific cover for field and coming to and from the stable only?
 
A few that are away from the normal ones are lycetts 0191 232 1151 who cover a lot of the racing people. amlin 0845 605 0233 who again do racehorse insurance or possibly towergate 01536 618 704 reason I am thinking of racehorseinsurers is that they will be used to providing cover for horses who are in the eyes of underwriters be more likely to drop a rider on the gallops with the possibility of getting onto a road. also worth thinking of telling insurers she is just a companion and will not be ridden. that may stop you riding at all but at least you will have cover until you get things sorted out
 
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I can't help thinking there's something wrong with the logic here. Most of the damage a horse can cause are as a direct result of things that are already known, and understood to be typical of some, most or all horses... including rearing, which is hardly unusual.
 
Have you tried World Horse Welfare? It seems like you are going round in circles with BHS and as a few others have already said WHW do PL insurance with their life membership so might be worth trying.
 
Most of these insurances that come with memberships are not just public liability but accident cover too so their concern might be for that. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch of possibility that you have to lead her somewhere she doesn't want to go e.g. a new field and she rears and injures someone.

The problem you have now is that even if not asked questions about the horse, some will ask "have you ever been refused insurance".

Also there may be something in the terms and conditions and how many of us have ticked that box saying we have read and accepted them.

You could try a broker, Julie Andrews specialises in horse insurance and may know of specific policies
 
I'm very confused by all this. Surely as a BHS member YOU are insured, not the horse? Your house insurance may well offer you public liability insurance too, worth looking into?
 
Third Julie Andrews.

I called about instructor insurance and she was most helpful and knowledgeable, and led me to stay with BHS insurance as it was the best, so really did do the best for her customer.
 
I'm with NFU and I have personal liability with them this covers me for any costs I'm legally responsible for connected to person or property damage arising from ownership of a horse by me or any equine I'm riding leading handling but not owned by me. Ie the liability cover is for someone making a claim against me. In the later it could be any horse at all therefore maybe something to look at.
 
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