Horse uninsurable for public liability

PHEW!!!! Finally finally got confirmation she will be covered under BHS insurance as long as she isn't being hacked by herself etc. Having been passed back and forth somewhat.

Utter nightmare and a huge eye opener. I still cannot quite believe the absolute rejection I have had from all main insurers on the basis of her having a known behavioural issue. I guess most people would never dream of mentioning it to an insurer (if they had one), why would you, but I had to for various reasons specific to my circumstances. I have to say all insurance companies were extremely apologetic it still- not great is it?

Anyway at least that's one more stress to cross off the list.... Thanks everyone for the suggestions
 
Michen said:
I still cannot quite believe the absolute rejection I have had from all main insurers on the basis of her having a known behavioural issue.
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It's not really that surprising. A horse like yours is far more likely to strike someone/get away and run into someone's car etc. than the average steady neddy. I guess the car equivalent is insuring a 20 year old driving a 3L turbo.
 
Good news.
Glad it's resolved for you now, OP.

Hopefully BHS_official will post later to clarify things further (I've pm'd them). I've always assumed my Gold membership covers me 3rd party no matter which of my horses I'm handling. The late chesnut git used to ditch me once a year, and twice he did it on the road. Should I have declared that? Where does it end declaring 'vices' or 'behavioural problems'?
 
Insurance is there to protect an individual (usually) against (financial) risk, and is for unforeseen circumstances. Where there is known risk (ie, a driver who has a claims history of fault claims. Or in this instance a horse who will demonstrate dangerous behaviour such as rearing) it is the insurers prerogative to either increase premiums or decline cover (either in it's entirety or partially through exclusions) as it is more likely (ie, not unforeseen) that this may re-occur.
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This is because although the horse (in this example) may only rear in certain situations known to date, it is a living creature, with it's own mind, that has shown a predisposition to react in a manner that would be unsafe.
Behaviour can also be very subjective- what is 'dangerous' to one person may be laughable or just manageable to another and so less likely for an insurer to provide cover for anyway as it is perception/management which in theory is changeable, unless an underlying physical cause can be found.
There is a greater risk therefore of this behaviour being demonstrated again in the future in as yet unknown or uncontrolled situations, than a horse who is temperamentally sound/has not previously shown these behaviours.
As best as Michens intentions are to keep the horse in the field, handled correctly etc, unless she is there herself 100% of the time and all external factors are controllable (never any cars going past too loud/having a blow-out as they drive past, a hot air balloon landing nearby, ramblers wandering into the wrong field by mistake etc etc), the situation cannot necessarily be fully controlled and there is nothing to say if the horse suddenly takes a strong dislike to it's situation or is suddenly unexpectedly scared it would not react in the same way.
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Therefore the risk to the insurer is far greater. With PL claims potentially running into the millions I have to say I can understand why PL would not be offered.
It would usually have to be declared as this isn't 'normal horse behaviour/happening as a one off, it is behaviour the horse has demonstrated on a number of occasions over a period of time and on horse specific policies the insurers will ask underwriting questions, usually one of which being whether the horse has temperment/behavioural problems.
You wouldn't have to disclose rejected insurance in this scenario though- cover simply wasn't available for what you required, usually this question is asked/you have to disclose if a policy has been voided (which would usually happen as a result of fraud which of course other insurers will have an interest in!)
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I'm glad you're all sorted now though. Broader policies are more likely to be useful in this situation as you've found :)
 
SpringArising said:
It's not really that surprising. A horse like yours is far more likely to strike someone/get away and run into someone's car etc. than the average steady neddy. I guess the car equivalent is insuring a 20 year old driving a 3L turbo.
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What, from her field or yard, where she will spend 100% of her time?
 
I think the British Driving Society do it, but if you have been refused you will have to make sure you read the small print.

I do wish you had got rid of it, 3rd Sept was promised, this is the schoolmaster. NOT.
Even if she does behave in the school at the moment there is no reason to be sure this will continue. She is dangerous, as I thought we agreed in your previous post.
 
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JanetGeorge said:
Probably a good thing I didn't tell my insurers I currently have a 2 year old who has had 2 goes at kicking a person to death in 10 weeks (he failed!) He WAS on the final road - but my staff persuaded me to give him another chance. (So it's their fault if he kicks them!)
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Well be careful, if you ignore these signs, and something happens, you may render your insurance void, as you have a responsibility to ensure H&S of anyone on your property.
 
Erm... I'm not in this situation by choice :) all sorted re insurance now but thank you x


Bonkers2 said:
I think the British Driving Society do it, but if you have been refused you will have to make sure you read the small print.

I do wish you had got rid of it, 3rd Sept was promised, this is the schoolmaster. NOT.
Even if she does behave in the school at the moment there is no reason to be sure this will continue. She is dangerous, as I thought we agreed in your previous post.
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Wow. Just to update, I've had a call from SEIB to tell me they have removed the vet fees on my policy as wel. Unbelievable.
 
Michen said:
Wow. Just to update, I've had a call from SEIB to tell me they have removed the vet fees on my policy as wel. Unbelievable.
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gunnergundog said:
For what reason?
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Maybe think there is a physical reason for the horse rearing. Op states it did it before she owned it, so that would then fall under a pre-existing condition. I guess rearing could be caused by pain anywhere, such as ulcers, ovaries, hocks, back, teeth, poll, etc..... so until the cause was found the horse in total would be excluded.

I guess if they think she is a public liability risk in the field they would also exclude injuries by accidents.

Not saying they are right or wrong, just what their thinking might be.
 
Nope not because they believe her problems to be physical. Apparently her rearing under saddle when hacked alone makes her a nut job in general and therefore more likely to injur herself etc etc. it's utterly bizarre.

Every other insurance company I have tried and got quotes from, whilst they won't insure her for PL, are happy to insure her for vet fees so long as they aren't sustained whilst doing something linked to her behaviour aka if she rears up and over and injures herself.

So she is now with E&L (God help her if she does need it).

Shocking from SEIB. And they were still happy to take my money today out of the DD despite the fact she is only insured for mortality with them!!!!! What an absolute joke.
 
Calm down Michen, this is not helping, try to stand back and pretty much stand back from the problem for a few days.
I assume you know what you have legally, and a plan.
But when shove comes to push are you willing to shoot the horse.
You can't sell it to anyone.
No one is obliged to offer insurance, it is their perogative [sp]
 
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Perfectly calm thank you- I think I have the right to be cross that despite having informed SEIB earlier this week about the mare, it's taken them 5 days to tell me they have decided to remove all vet fees (despite them initially saying they were just removing PL). That, in my opinion, is not a satisfactory service. What if my mare had coliced and I was unknowingly uninsured? Had I known she was not insured for them I would have immediately cancelled my policy and insured elsewhere (as I have done now). SEIB are the only insurers who have declined vet cover for her. NFU, Petplan, Kbis, E&L were all happy to insure her for vet fees despite having the exact same information. I went with E&L as I am not too concerned by their reputation given that it is highly unlikely I would ever pursue the need for any extensive veterinary treatment for the horse in question as her use is not as a ridden horse.

I am not asking for opinions re shooting, selling, as that is not something I can discuss right now. The horse is in my care and my responsibility.
 
They were lovely to deal with and very apologetic, but I suppose as they are brokers there is only so much they could do. I am astounded it's taken this long for them to suddenly call up and say she isn't insured for vet fees though- despite the information having been given to the underwriters earlier this week and them removing PL then.

I have never had a horse in my care that was not insured for every second I owned it. It's so easy for something to go wrong, a friend of mine swapped insurers and her horse wasn't insured for 24 hours. In that time period it got kicked in the field and had to have the joint flushed multiple times, and it wrecked a ligament whilst getting up from surgery resulting in a 5k uninsured vet bill. I am careful to ensure I am never in that situation.

Edited to say yes- I have had confirmation she is covered PL with BHS so all good there. And every other insurance company were happy to insure her for vet fees so it seems that part is just limited to SEIB... Bizarre.


MagicMelon said:
I'm surprised SEIB wont insure, I was with them and found them to be extremely helpful and understanding. Doesn't being a member of some clubs give you automatic PL insurance? For example, BE or BS? BE's insurance benefits are here:- https://www.britisheventing.com/asp...&itemTitle=Full+Membership+Insurance+Benefits. So you always just become a member for those benefits?
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Oh goodness do I really have to justify why I want my horse insured (for the record- because any horse in my ownership or care is always insured as I don't have lots of cash lying around for vet bills) I've said so many times I cannot discuss what's happening with the horse on here for obvious reasons.
 
I think the whys are not applicable here as Mitchen has said very clearly that she cannot (not will not) discuss the horse and whats happening. therefore I think we need to read between the lines and whats not being said while assuming that Mitchen is intelligent enough to be taken at face value in the posts. I just hope that she gets resolution at an early date and can move on with a horse that does the job its wanted for
 
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