'Horse whisperers' - are they ethical?

[dapple_grey]

Now I do try and live by the whole 'live and let live'. If you want to pay someone to tell you your horse's favourite colour, their life when they were a foal, that's fine! But I have been truly astonished by what one particular individual has been telling their paying customers, and it begs the question - are 'Animal Communicators/Horse Whisperers' ethical?

This lady charges people £60 a go, and the worrying thing is that many of these horse owners are taking what she says as gospel and acting on it.

Horse 1: Previously had bad ulcers. Horse whisperer says nope, he's all clear of ulcers, carry on with him!
Horse 2: Mare has a conformational default and is a chronic stopper - horse whisperer says she wants a foal, breed from her! To a very specific breed and colour stallion... Guess what the owner is now doing? Yep, looking at breeding to that specific type of stallion.
Horse 3: Needs his tack changing, totally different bridle, saddle riser etc.

I know these horse owners are ultimately responsible for making sensible decisions - but surely you should assume that they're going to act on that advice and they shouldn't be saying things that only a qualified vet/saddle fitter would know? No one else seems to see a problem with it, is it just me!?

 

[windand rain]

The simple answer is no. The slightly more cynical one is fools and their money are soon parted. I would guess it's something of a personal choice but the market for scammers is huge

 

[Sossigpoker]

Nothing ethical about what that woman is doing. There's no way to read anyone's mind , human or non-human, so claiming to be able to tell what someone is thinking of is a total con for starters.

 

[Kaylum]

My friend had one to her yard. Before he turned up I said are you kidding me as he is a well known con artist. I explained that they pick up on things and as they get more and more confident they find ways to convince you. Anyway as thought it wasn't very successful.

 

[Birker2020]

Now I do try and live by the whole 'live and let live' saying. If you want to pay someone to tell you your horse's favourite colour, their life when they were a foal, that's fine! But I have been truly astonished by what one particular individual as been telling their paying customers, and it begs the question - are 'Horse Whisperers' ethical?

This lady charges people £60 a go, and the worrying thing is that many of these horse owners are taking what she says as gospel and acting on it.

Horse 1: Previously had bad ulcers. Horse whisperer says nope, he's all clear of ulcers, carry on with him!
Horse 2: Mare has a conformational default and is a chronic stopper - horse whisperer says she wants a foal, breed from her! To a very specific breed and colour stallion... Guess what the owner is now doing? Yep, looking at breeding to that specific type of stallion.
Horse 3: Needs his tack changing, totally different bridle, saddle riser etc.

I know these horse owners are ultimately responsible for making sensible decisions - but surely you should assume that they're going to act on that advice and they shouldn't be saying things that only a qualified vet/saddle fitter would know? No one else seems to see a problem with it, is it just me!?

I believe in the Horse Whisperer I know 100%. A huge number of us on the yard (40 plus) use her and she has been correct almost every time in what she has told people.

Three times with Bailey she told me exceptional things she couldn't possibly have known (I didn't know three of those things myself so she'd not picked up things on social media/me telling a third party) and four or five of them were really mundane things.

But she has been known to tell an owner "******* doesn't want to be pts yet" and I think that is totally unethical. After all no horse wants to be pts but to put that onus onto an owner who feels that the time has come and then has self doubts isn't fair to that person or their horse.

 

[Kaylum]

They tell you things and you relate to them in your head. It's how it works. Same with fortune tellers. The better they get at it, the more confident they become.

 

[asmp]

Someone I know is about to use one and I’ll be interested to know what she says. It’s a last resort really as insurance money is all used up and there is no real idea of what is wrong with horse.

 

[Caol Ila]

I am a sceptic but I know people who've had uncanny experiences, where the animal communicator told them something about the horse that they (the AC) should not have known or been able to guess.

I tried one once, in a moment of curiosity and desperation. I can't say I was impressed. She came up with all sorts of things about the horse that I know weren't remotely true.

 

[Birker2020]

They tell you things and you relate to them in your head. It's how it works. Same with fortune tellers. The better they get at it, the more confident they become.

I don't necessarily agree with this. I know they can tell you stuff you can never know for certain, like your horse doesn't like its noseband, or the saddlecloth he wears. Generic stuff that you have no way of proving.

But my experience (over many visits) was that the horse whisperer knew my horses headcollar had been used on another horse for instance. Staff confirmed this after she had left the appointment. Another time she knew my horse required the dentist as Bailey was pleading with her to tell me to call one out and I started off saying no because the vet had been out not long before. But knowing how reliable the horse whisperer had been in the past I changed my mind and called the EDT. He confirmed the horse had a massive slab fracture. None of us on the yard had known that. There is no way she could have known that, the horse was actually munching on a hay net at the time. She knew that I had stopped feeding Bailey a nut I said (very surprised as she was never wrong) "no you aren't right, she still gets cubes in her snackaball" and she said "no, not those nuts, these that you've stopped feeding are very fine small nuts" .

And yep, I'd stopped her Allen & Page Veteran Vitality which is very fine nuts.

 

[dapple_grey]

They tell you things and you relate to them in your head. It's how it works. Same with fortune tellers. The better they get at it, the more confident they become.

It's a bit like reading your horoscope, they can say a load of generic things and you'll think oh yeah that applies to me! Somehow all the horses whose owners didn't have their full history had come over from Ireland and had memories of being on a boat

 

[dapple_grey]

I don't necessarily agree with this.

She knew my horses headcollar had been used on another horse for instance. Staff confirmed this after she had left. Another time she knew my horse required the dentist as she was pleading with her to tell me to call one out and I started off saying no because the vet has been not long before. But knowing how reliable the horse whisperer had been in the past I changed my mind and called the EDT. He confirmed the horse had a massive slab fracture. None of us on the yard had known that. There is no way she could have known that, the horse was actually munching on a hay net at the time.

I don't think there's anything wrong with this type of stuff - it's the things that directly effect the horse's welfare that I don't like. Such as a novice owner breeding from a mare for no other reason other than she has reproductive organs.

 

[Cortez]

People are very gullible.

 

[supagran]

Sold a horse and new owner had a horse communicator to him - apparently horse said he missed the baby grey horse. this puzzled us as we didn't have a grey horse, however our bay foal turned out grey (despite the vet assuring us that he wouldn't!). Call me sceptical, but maybe there was something in it????

 

[toppedoff]

I knew someone who got em out because her horse was in pain and wanted to ask it what was hurting him so the vets can get to work sooner

 

[scats]

My friend got one out years ago. Well, she was doing a load on the yard so friend decided to jump on out of curiosity. It was a load of rubbish but did cause an amusing moment. A fellow yardie walked around the corner as the whisperer was ‘talking’ to the horse and horse, who was always grumpy, pulled a rotten face as lady passed. There was a brief pause and then “He wants you to know that he hates that woman!” she said.
How my friend held it together I don’t know!
Nothing said had any relevance to the horse, it was all very generic.

 

[criso]

Not sure horse whisperer and horse communicator are the same thing. The former is a style of training as per the book and film and monty Roberts; the latter is someone who believes they can hear horses thoughts.

As for people who can talk to horses, I think some are experienced horse people picking up on various physical cues without even realising. From the horse's stance, pain in the leg shoulder back etc. Horse displaying subtle signs of stress or not.

Other things are impossible to prove unless you have owned the horse since birth and had full control of the interactions.

I had an experience a few years ago with a loan horse where owner had some distance communication done. Horse slipped in the field injuring hock. Slip was seen and horse was lame and had visible swelling. Owner informed me, it wasn't hock but back so could we focus on that instead. I had to tell vet this who did examine the back, found no soreness and suggested we concentrate on the injury we could see.

 

[dapple_grey]

Not sure horse whisperer and horse communicator are the same thing. The former is a style of training as per the book and film and monty Roberts; the latter is someone who believes they can hear horses thoughts.

As for people who can talk to horses, I think some are experienced horse people picking up on various physical cues without even realising. From the horse's stance, pain in the leg shoulder back etc. Horse displaying subtle signs of stress or not.

Other things are impossible to prove unless you have owned the horse since birth and had full control of the interactions.

I had an experience a few years ago with a loan horse where owner had some distance communication done. Horse slipped in the field injuring hock. Slip was seen and horse was lame and had visible swelling. Owner informed me, it wasn't hock but back so could we focus on that instead. I had to tell vet this who did examine the back, found no soreness and suggested we concentrate on the injury we could see.

I realise now the title thread should have said 'Animal Communicator', but was unable to edit it! There are some fab professionals e.g. Michael Peace who I suppose you'd consider a 'Horse Whisperer' and I definitely wouldn't put him in the same box as the individual described above

 

[dapple_grey]

Not sure horse whisperer and horse communicator are the same thing. The former is a style of training as per the book and film and monty Roberts; the latter is someone who believes they can hear horses thoughts.

As for people who can talk to horses, I think some are experienced horse people picking up on various physical cues without even realising. From the horse's stance, pain in the leg shoulder back etc. Horse displaying subtle signs of stress or not.

Other things are impossible to prove unless you have owned the horse since birth and had full control of the interactions.

I had an experience a few years ago with a loan horse where owner had some distance communication done. Horse slipped in the field injuring hock. Slip was seen and horse was lame and had visible swelling. Owner informed me, it wasn't hock but back so could we focus on that instead. I had to tell vet this who did examine the back, found no soreness and suggested we concentrate on the injury we could see.

There's no way I'd be brave enough to say to a vet it's because an animal communicator told me so

 

[Surbie]

I think it's hokum. I wouldn't use a communicator and I'd be alarmed to see one giving a medical diagnosis (the ulcers example).

 

[criso]

There's no way I'd be brave enough to say to a vet it's because an animal communicator told me so

I apologised to the vet and explained the situation. I had to ask him to check the back as the owner had requested it and wasn't going to take the blame myself.

What didn't help is they were doing one of the vet documentaries about students at the RVC. The vet was looking baffled, I was apologising and ym and vet student were unsuccessfully trying their best not to laugh. I refused to give permission to film as it " wasn't my horse". They offered to contact the owner after but I stood firm. I could imagine how it would be edited. "X's owner believes he has spoken to them and said he has a sore back". Then there would be a shot of me holding said horse with no explanation that I wasn't the owner.

 

[Birker2020]

There's no way I'd be brave enough to say to a vet it's because an animal communicator told me so

I did. I told the vet the horse whisperer had told me Baileys tooth needed removing. It was right at the top at the back. I told him I'd had the EDT out who confirmed it.

 

[Patterdale]

I am a very good cold reader and there are people who are convinced that I am ‘psychic’ even after I have told them that I am not, and explained to them how it’s done.

Some people just really want to believe in magic

 

[sport horse]

I am a total cynic but quite a few years ago I had one horse that despite every veterinary test available, we could not find out what was wrong. I was told about a 'communicator' who spoke to your horse on the phone - now I am really laughing - as a fairly professional horseperson with a lifetime in the business I am thinking of ringing someone up to chat to my horse on a mobile phone? I must be insane! As a very last resort we decided to humour ourselves.

I booked said person and told them the bare minimum about the horse. Literally that we had problems that we could not solve. I insisted that my vet was with us and also the international level pro rider (who moaned at my stupidity but as they wanted my horses they had to agree!)

The day came. The horse was in its stable overloking a big field. The phone call came and the phone was on loudspeaker. The communicator 'talked to the horse' and apparently he answered. He told her he had had a fall and hurt himself before he came to us and he described the scene. It was exactly where had bought him from but the person did not know that we had even ever bought him, who he was nor where he came from. Coincidence? Well all I can say is not many places have a point to point course with the countryside background that was described in great detail, so that was weird. He also told the person that he had hurt his left hind leg and that it hurt right up to his pelvis - yes he was wrong in exactly that place but we had never told them that nor indeed that our 'problem' was a soundness issue at all. Other things of a similar nature came out. THEN a muntjack deer ran across our field and the horse raised his head and watched the deer. The person on the phone said 'what is he doing I have lost communication'. How did that happen? It was long before the days of cameras etc on phones. Bizarre. The rider, who was only present to pander to me said the person had said things that only they, the rider, knew.

As a result of the information we were given we were able to give treatment that greatly improved said horse. We never really got it right enough for our job but I will never again totally disbelieve. Equally I would not be interested in being told my horse did not like a yellow numnah!

 

[SEL]

I did once send a photo to someone who reckoned they could read a horse from the photo. It was taken same day but just out in paddock, so horse not stood square or anything

She told me he felt he needed to lose weight. Firstly that horse would happily have eaten himself into an early grave and secondly one of my worries at that time was unexpected weight LOSS. But you couldn't tell from full Ardennes winter coat at an unflattering angle that there were ribs.

She then told me his hocks were sore and he wanted boswellia. He was on 2 Bute a day for his ringbone by then. Still had decent flexion in his hocks. She told me he had years left in him. He didn't.

Bizarre experience and waste of £30.

But I did have an odd experience with a reiki lady treating a horse two stables down from the Appy. She was in the stable doing what she was doing and the horse she was working on wouldn't relax. She comes out and asks me if the Appy is mine and said please can you give her the oranges you've bought because no one will get any peace until you do. I was confused because I hadn't bought oranges - but I had bought orange carrots. So greedy got her carrots and the reiki lady was able to do her session!!

 

[hairycob]

A not particularly bright person at a previous yard had one out to her ex-racer. Told me she must be gifted as the horse had told her about races he'd been in and they were right. Was amazed when I trotted out much the same info. OMG she said, you should do this for a living. Yep, when she had booked she had given the horses racing name, not just his stable name. Didn't believe me that I'd just googled the horse when she had bought him, was still convinced hat the communicator wouldn't have done that as well. How did owner know his racing history - she'd googled it of course.

 

[Gloi]

They work on the principle of "there's one born every minute"

 

[CrunchieBoi]

Nope.

 

[blitznbobs]

Same as psychics, and faith healers and those selling magnets for hesling - quacks and charletons the lot of em but if there are people willing to pay to have their body language read then who is the fool?

 

[Peglo]

I got one to see my old mare out of curiosity. He stood in a separate shed to the horses stables and never saw them while he did his “reading”. There was a few things he said that was right like he was trying to figure out why Flo was thin and announced finally it was because she was older. She was in her early 20’s and a TB so didn’t carry much weight. Could’ve seen pictures of her on facebook although nothing to say her age.
He asked if there was anything I wanted to ask so I asked why she could be grumpy with people in her stable and he said it was because she thought she was going to get tacked up. I NEVER tacked her up inside never mind in her stable. She was in fact just a bit food aggressive although never actually tried to hurt anyone, just threaten. I came to this conclusion afterwards.

A few things sounded right but most was I found it interesting and probably would try one again for curiosity but don’t really believe it. I would never put a horse in foal or not seek vets advice because my horse “spoke” to them obviously.

 

[paddy555]

total and utter rubbish. They must be and certainly most of them are without doubt.
I always thought they were quacks and charlatans then the problem came, I met Julie Dicker. That was on the advice of my physio at the time as they were totally stuck as was my horse. The way she and the horse communicated was out of this world. Like nothing I have seen before or since. She didn't ask him which headcollar he preferred, she asked where the pain was and what movement he needed to release it. Then she told the physio how to move him. It was there is black and white. Impossible to make it up.

Lots jumped on her bandwagon. I knew a couple and they were no more healers or communicators than the rest of us.


Julie was the most ordinary middle aged woman you could ever meet and also the most extraordinary. I got to know her well over time and started to learn what the horses were "communicating" in some form and it wasn't I prefer the yellow numnah to the red one.
I watched her dowsing horses and healing.
A once in a lifetime experience and I doubt I will meet another.

HenryHorn was a well respected poster on here at one time

Sad news about Julie Dicker.

I opened our local horse supplement today to see she has died on bone cancer aged 48. I knew she was ill but not knowing her other than as a client I felt unable to contact her to say anything, but had mentally wished her well many times. As someone who always suspected horse healing was a load...

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