'Horse whisperers' - are they ethical?

[ycbm]

total and utter rubbish. They must be and certainly most of them are without doubt.
I always thought they were quacks and charlatans then the problem came, I met Julie Dicker. That was on the advice of my physio at the time as they were totally stuck as was my horse. The way she and the horse communicated was out of this world. Like nothing I have seen before or since. She didn't ask him which headcollar he preferred, she asked where the pain was and what movement he needed to release it. Then she told the physio how to move him. It was there is black and white. Impossible to make it up.

Lots jumped on her bandwagon. I knew a couple and they were no more healers or communicators than the rest of us.


Julie was the most ordinary middle aged woman you could ever meet and also the most extraordinary. I got to know her well over time and started to learn what the horses were "communicating" in some form and it wasn't I prefer the yellow numnah to the red one.
I watched her dowsing horses and healing.
A once in a lifetime experience and I doubt I will meet another.

HenryHorn was a well respected poster on here at one time

Sad news about Julie Dicker.

I opened our local horse supplement today to see she has died on bone cancer aged 48. I knew she was ill but not knowing her other than as a client I felt unable to contact her to say anything, but had mentally wished her well many times. As someone who always suspected horse healing was a load...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

She wasn't horse whispering, she was interpreting micro movements that other people weren't skilled enough to see. Though it's quite possible she didn't realise that she had this skill herself and imagined actually asking the horse and having it answer.

 

[Palindrome]

But I did have an odd experience with a reiki lady treating a horse two stables down from the Appy. She was in the stable doing what she was doing and the horse she was working on wouldn't relax. She comes out and asks me if the Appy is mine and said please can you give her the oranges you've bought because no one will get any peace until you do. I was confused because I hadn't bought oranges - but I had bought orange carrots. So greedy got her carrots and the reiki lady was able to do her session!!

But horses can't see red so they wouldn't be able to see the color orange?

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I've seen various 'Horse Whisperers' work over the years & I firmly believe that they pray on owners who have tried everything to find what's up with their horse & finally they turn to these 'Horse Whisperers' /Animal Communicators as a last resort. The bilge I have heard them tell the owners. There was once who told the horse owner that the horse was upset because he wanted his water bucket in a different corner of the stable. One horse needed a different bit because he didn't like it. I might be wrong but I put them in the same category as clairvoyants which I don't have any time for either.

 

[Kaylum]

My bil was a theatre manager and had very well known people doing events. Anyway they used to get clairvoyants in and they had various people come with them who used to sit in the audience who were part of the act. Anyway at the end they would sell dvds and some people came for their money back as they said the same people were on the dvds

When your desperate you will believe anything.

 

[dapple_grey]

Same as psychics, and faith healers and those selling magnets for hesling - quacks and charletons the lot of em but if there are people willing to pay to have their body language read then who is the fool?

And in this case it’s to the detriment of the horse Some of it’s harmless, if you want to believe it then each to their own. But I think dishing out medical diagnoses when you’re not qualified to do so is appalling

 

[dapple_grey]

But horses can't see red so they wouldn't be able to see the color orange?

My thoughts exactly and if she had such powers, why would she need to ask the lady whether the horse was hers? Wouldn’t the horse tell her that

 

[blitznbobs]

And in this case it’s to the detriment of the horse Some of it’s harmless, if you want to believe it then each to their own. But I think dishing out medical diagnoses when you’re not qualified to do so is appalling

Oh they are all evil — i have absolutely no time for them they pedal false hope and dreams which are damaging all ways around

 

[Irish-Only]

If you are talking about a certain scottish lady then she is absolutely shocking. I was on desperate measures, had spent thousands and three specialists couldn't get to the root of the problem. The conversation with her (and allegedly my mare) was verging on the ridiculous.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

One said my Darty didn't like his name - Freebie - he wanted to be called Free. He also wanted a red food bucket.

Turns out the transporter who had taken him down south had wrecked him.r

Another said my old grey shetland often spoke to an older gentleman ghost, the setting was always the same. In front of a stately home with a girl with red hair and some tartan ribbon. A few years before Flint had won the Ridden shetland championship at Kinross Show - on the lawns of Kinross House (big stately home) his sash was cream with tartan piping and the judge was an older guy who had since died.

So that was a bit weird! And long long long before the days of the internet!

But the rest of it all was absolute tosh.

 

[Spotherisk]

Julie Dicker was amazing, and Harley treated me completely differently for a while after she had met him.

I had another lady out some years later to Tinner, she was as confused as I was to start with, Tinner was uncomfortable in the pelvic area. Was it SI joint said I - no, definitely not, was it ulcers, or gut, or KS nope, we didn’t know so moved on. Tinner felt very muzzy in his head all the time, like he wasn’t really with it and struggled to concentrate, well that was weird, couldn’t work that out either. It slowly dawned on me that the pelvic pain she described was my pelvic pain, from Tinner whipping around and dumping me at max velocity onto tarmac, probably cracking the pelvis and causing phenomenal pain for a few years, and the muzzy head was also mine, also caused by Tinner smashing his head onto my crown, luckily I had my hat on as the blow was so hard I briefly lost my vision and was concussed for about two months. We were both a bit emotional then. Tinner and I had a very close relationship, and somehow I was not surprised that he ‘felt’ my physical pain.

 

[BSL2]

I had a lady out once, got caught up with other liveries doing it. I was told that my boy " just loves to run"...well there's a surprise, a 5 year old Arab that loves to run, who'd have thought...

 

[catembi]

I have used one a lot of times and had some astonishing results. E.g. Trev had banged his head and got a cut above his eye. I was worried that my other horse had kicked him as it was a real thump. Horse whisperer: "he banged his head on the door frame of the field shelter." She described how he'd had his head down dozing & something had startled him and he'd banged his head. I went to look. The field shelter at my previous house was two stables with the doors permanently wedged open. The vertical wooden beam between them had a fresh, new crack in the old wood and it would have taken that sort of impact to do it. There was also a staple that could be used to hook the door shut. That was the thing that made the wound over his eye. The exact size, shape and angle.

Trev was lame once (serial self harmer) & I'd been over him with a fine toothcomb trying to find out what it was this time. No heat, no swelling, no blood... She said that he'd cut his frog. He stood on a stone, turned his fetlock a bit & cut his frog. I thought, no he hasn't because I've already looked. I looked more closely...yup, cut frog. It had looked like a bit of shedding frog until I knew what I was looking for, & there was definitely a cut. And verrrrrry slight warmth in the fetlock.

Lots of other similar things! And she also knew completely random things. I used to let them catch themselves in & she knew that that morning, Trev had put himself in the wrong stable on purpose. Apparently to make me laugh! Not sure about the last bit, but he had definitely done it, had never done it before and never did it since. And I did NOT put it on FB! So how would she know that? She just came out with it without me having said anything at all.

I guess it's one of those things where if you've had a spookily accurate experience, you believe in it & if you haven't, you don't...

 

[paddy555]

She wasn't horse whispering, she was interpreting micro movements that other people weren't skilled enough to see. Though it's quite possible she didn't realise that she had this skill herself and imagined actually asking the horse and having it answer.

I don't know what "whispering" means. Communicating yes that makes sense but none of this magical "whispering"

in the horse I mentioned earlier she didn't interpret any micro movements simply because she didn't see him moving.
I can see that some people, perhaps a very very few, would have the expertise to see micro movements but in all honesty I don't think so in this case. Those that did would, I suspect, have endless, endless experience in this field.

What happened was that the horse was in the physio's stable. It had hobbled out of the lorry. Julie was not there at the time. She didn't work on the basis that anyone shared their "notes" and horse history with her. There was no discussion about the horse. Just he's in here.
She walked into the stable, didn't even introduce herself to the horse, the horse didn't move. It was obvious to anyone which end of the horse the problem lay in. After less than 20 seconds the instructions were just barked out fast and furious, He want this, now he wants this. The physio did the movements, Julie didn't touch him. After 15 minutes of this she decided he was done. It was clear from the horse he agreed. I was told take him out and trot him. Julie he can barely move let alone trot. Yes he can and he did.

Even discussing it afterwards, with Julie there, there was no explanation I could understand. To Julie the horse was just screaming it's needs at her(not verbally) and due to "something" she was able to pick up on that.
She certainly realised she had some sort of exceptional "ability" that others didn't have.
Some of it I could liken to dowsing so I did understand the mental side and how she was picking things up to an extent,


I can't speak for any others as I am unlikely to every use anyone else but with Julie there was no time for "waffle" about the horse so she could pick up on "clues"
It was "tell me about" and the answer would come within seconds.


Evil and pedalling false hope maybe but a lot of horse professionals used her and a lot of the "great and the good" in the horse world went to her funeral. A lot miss her skills (whatever they were )

 

[ycbm]

I don't know what "whispering" means. Communicating yes that makes sense but none of this magical "whispering"

in the horse I mentioned earlier she didn't interpret any micro movements simply because she didn't see him moving.
I can see that some people, perhaps a very very few, would have the expertise to see micro movements but in all honesty I don't think so in this case. Those that did would, I suspect, have endless, endless experience in this field.

What happened was that the horse was in the physio's stable. It had hobbled out of the lorry. Julie was not there at the time. She didn't work on the basis that anyone shared their "notes" and horse history with her. There was no discussion about the horse. Just he's in here.
She walked into the stable, didn't even introduce herself to the horse, the horse didn't move. It was obvious to anyone which end of the horse the problem lay in. After less than 20 seconds the instructions were just barked out fast and furious, He want this, now he wants this. The physio did the movements, Julie didn't touch him. After 15 minutes of this she decided he was done. It was clear from the horse he agreed. I was told take him out and trot him. Julie he can barely move let alone trot. Yes he can and he did.

Even discussing it afterwards, with Julie there, there was no explanation I could understand. To Julie the horse was just screaming it's needs at her(not verbally) and due to "something" she was able to pick up on that.
She certainly realised she had some sort of exceptional "ability" that others didn't have.
Some of it I could liken to dowsing so I did understand the mental side and how she was picking things up to an extent,


I can't speak for any others as I am unlikely to every use anyone else but with Julie there was no time for "waffle" about the horse so she could pick up on "clues"
It was "tell me about" and the answer would come within seconds.


Evil and pedalling false hope maybe but a lot of horse professionals used her and a lot of the "great and the good" in the horse world went to her funeral. A lot miss her skills (whatever they were )

I don't think you are describing any mystical ability there. She saw a horse who "it was obvious to anyone which end of the horse the problem lay in" and was able to read the horse's body language better than anyone else connected with the horse. We could do with more people like her but this isn't anything but reading horse physiology, from the sound of it.

 

[Birker2020]

Same as psychics, and faith healers and those selling magnets for hesling - quacks and charletons the lot of em but if there are people willing to pay to have their body language read then who is the fool?

Who is the fool for not believing I say?

 

[paddy555]

I don't think you are describing any mystical ability there. She saw a horse who "it was obvious to anyone which end of the horse the problem lay in" and was able to read the horse's body language better than anyone else connected with the horse. We could do with more people like her but this isn't anything but reading horse physiology, from the sound of it.

I never thought I was describing "mystical ability". Julie was one of the most down to earth people I have known. It was an ability (in the area of healing) that I don't really understand probably because of the speed of it and that it was so very different to the ability of very experienced horse people who "think" conventionally.

All communication we have with horses is reading their body language (I think?)but I don't think she read it in the same way but through pictures and feeling the pain (although not through touching) and it wasn't just horses but any animal. (or human for that matter)

Possibly a sense we all have but in her totally over developed and many of the rest simply can't feel it or tune in to it enough, we are too conventional. .

Who is the fool for not believing I say?

it's not being the fool for not believing. It is not magic. (there are most definitely frauds out there, I remember Julie telling me of one chap who insisted on privacy for his work with the horse. Top door had to be closed. Owner was quite happy with this arrangement. Unfortunately the chap didn't realise the foaling box had cameras ) but of trying to understand why one person has a different and exceptional ability and different sort of energy.

 

[Birker2020]

I never thought I was describing "mystical ability". Julie was one of the most down to earth people I have known. It was an ability (in the area of healing) that I don't really understand probably because of the speed of it and that it was so very different to the ability of very experienced horse people who "think" conventionally.

All communication we have with horses is reading their body language (I think?)but I don't think she read it in the same way but through pictures and feeling the pain (although not through touching) and it wasn't just horses but any animal. (or human for that matter)

Possibly a sense we all have but in her totally over developed and many of the rest simply can't feel it or tune in to it enough, we are too conventional. .


it's not being the fool for not believing. It is not magic. (there are most definitely frauds out there, I remember Julie telling me of one chap who insisted on privacy for his work with the horse. Top door had to be closed. Owner was quite happy with this arrangement. Unfortunately the chap didn't realise the foaling box had cameras ) but of trying to understand why one person has a different and exceptional ability and different sort of energy.

I remember Mum saying that a neighbour had gone to a Doris Stokes event in the 1980's in Birmingham. She was a very popular clairvoyant in those days and attracted large audiences. The neighbour had remembered many of the names mentioned during the performance, for example Doris would say "is there a Dorothy here? Gordon has come through to me"

When the neighbour got home she looked at the obituary section of the Birminggam Evening Mail. There was Gordon's obituary mentioning he'd left behind two sons and his wife Dorothy!

I suppose it was to be expected that newly bereaved family would attend the latest Doris Stokes performance in the hope if hearing familiar names. Most if the information she required was there for her taking in the obituaries section.

 

[paddy555]

Julie Dicker was amazing, and Harley treated me completely differently for a while after she had met him.

I had another lady out some years later to Tinner, she was as confused as I was to start with, Tinner was uncomfortable in the pelvic area. Was it SI joint said I - no, definitely not, was it ulcers, or gut, or KS nope, we didn’t know so moved on. Tinner felt very muzzy in his head all the time, like he wasn’t really with it and struggled to concentrate, well that was weird, couldn’t work that out either. It slowly dawned on me that the pelvic pain she described was my pelvic pain, from Tinner whipping around and dumping me at max velocity onto tarmac, probably cracking the pelvis and causing phenomenal pain for a few years, and the muzzy head was also mine, also caused by Tinner smashing his head onto my crown, luckily I had my hat on as the blow was so hard I briefly lost my vision and was concussed for about two months. We were both a bit emotional then. Tinner and I had a very close relationship, and somehow I was not surprised that he ‘felt’ my physical pain.

I was so lucky to have known her. I learnt so much from her.

 

[paddy555]

I remember Mum saying that a neighbour had gone to a Doris Stokes event in the 1980's in Birmingham. She was a very popular clairvoyant in those days and attracted large audiences. The neighbour had remembered many of the names mentioned during the performance, for example Doris would say "is there a Dorothy here? Gordon has come through to me"

When the neighbour got home she looked at the obituary section of the Birminggam Evening Mail. There was Gordon's obituary mentioning he'd left behind two sons and his wife Dorothy!

I suppose it was to be expected that newly bereaved family would attend the latest Doris Stokes performance in the hope if hearing familiar names. Most if the information she required was there for her taking in the obituaries section.

just an intelligent clairvoyant who had done her research.

 

[maggiestar]

I've got strong feelings about professional psycics of all kinds, whether they're tarot readers, mediums, or animal communicators. If the gift was real they would tell their visions for free. I don't believe that it can be turned on like a tap. So how can the 'visions' or 'messages' suddenly appear when money is involved? I am open minded about ghosts and psychic stuff etc but sadly there are many charlatans and cold readers out there who will manipulate vulnerable and gullible people for cash.
Edited to add it's dreadful when bereaved people are taken advantage of but it's unforgivable if 'psychic messages' are used to determine an animal's treatment.

 

[shanti]

I am a very good cold reader and there are people who are convinced that I am ‘psychic’ even after I have told them that I am not, and explained to them how it’s done.

Some people just really want to believe in magic

Many years ago, I used to do Tarot card readings, I made quite a lot of money and people truly believed I had a gift and was magic, as I am very good at reading people and noticing subtle cues (and telling people what they want to hear) I am in no way 'psychic' though and ultimately, I was just taking money by lying to desperate, vulnerable people. I stopped when my conscience wouldn't let me sleep at night. This is largely why I am skeptical and would never take the advice of one, especially concerning an animal's health and welfare.

 

[dapple_grey]

Who is the fool for not believing I say?

The point of my post is the individual I described who is telling owners things that only a qualified vet would know. How damaging is that for the horse, who may well still have ulcers but this woman is saying he doesn't? She also said one of the horses on the yard was concerned about the girl who rides her having something wrong with her right leg. Spoiler: she doesn't!

 

[DabDab]

I never thought I was describing "mystical ability". Julie was one of the most down to earth people I have known. It was an ability (in the area of healing) that I don't really understand probably because of the speed of it and that it was so very different to the ability of very experienced horse people who "think" conventionally.

All communication we have with horses is reading their body language (I think?)but I don't think she read it in the same way but through pictures and feeling the pain (although not through touching) and it wasn't just horses but any animal. (or human for that matter)

Possibly a sense we all have but in her totally over developed and many of the rest simply can't feel it or tune in to it enough, we are too conventional. .


it's not being the fool for not believing. It is not magic. (there are most definitely frauds out there, I remember Julie telling me of one chap who insisted on privacy for his work with the horse. Top door had to be closed. Owner was quite happy with this arrangement. Unfortunately the chap didn't realise the foaling box had cameras ) but of trying to understand why one person has a different and exceptional ability and different sort of energy.

I think with colours quite a bit, in that my brain assigns colours to things that you otherwise can't see, particularly flows of energy. So if I'm ever massaging a horse or a human (not something I do often but on the odd occassion), I can quite easily see that although there is a knot or tension in one place, it can actually be traced back to somewhere different causing it. I've often thought that that (or a similar) natural brain phenomenon, coupled with a bunch load of experience and in depth knowledge of physiology (neither of which I have) would make the sort of ability that it sounds like this lady had.

It works the same for mechanical and thermodynamic systems and processes, which made me a useful engineer. Those heat maps that modern FEA or shape measurement software produces, my brain does a version of naturally. And engineering pays better than horses unfortunately.

 

[littleshetland]

Ive had some interesting encounters with Acs over the years, one or two pretty amazing, but reading this thread reminds of when my mum passed.
She had a rather beautiful mink coat, and some lovely rings. I don't approve of fur, but my mum did love her mink , so on the day of her funeral I 'ummed and aahd' over wether to wear her coat at the funeral, to honour her. I decided too, and wore her rings too.
Some months later I meet woman at a social gathering. We're exchanging polite chit chat, and she suddenly said to me ' By the way, your mum says you looked great in her coat and the rings at her funeral....' It turns out she was a 'medium. At the time I had no mobile phone and no social media accounts and I'd never met her before.

 

[Birker2020]

The point of my post is the individual I described who is telling owners things that only a qualified vet would know. How damaging is that for the horse, who may well still have ulcers but this woman is saying he doesn't? She also said one of the horses on the yard was concerned about the girl who rides her having something wrong with her right leg. Spoiler: she doesn't!

Exactly. Like how my friend was told "your horse doesn't want to go" after she'd made the decision to do the deed. So wrong.

 

[paddy555]

I've got strong feelings about professional psycics of all kinds, whether they're tarot readers, mediums, or animal communicators. If the gift was real they would tell their visions for free. I don't believe that it can be turned on like a tap. So how can the 'visions' or 'messages' suddenly appear when money is involved? I am open minded about ghosts and psychic stuff etc but sadly there are many charlatans and cold readers out there who will manipulate vulnerable and gullible people for cash..
Edited to add it's dreadful when bereaved people are taken advantage of but it's unforgivable if 'psychic messages' are used to determine an animal's treatment.

leaving aside if there are frauds out there which there undoubtedly are why would someone do it for free?

No one is forced to use either a medium, an AC or anyone else. It is a personal choice.

Some people are very gifted, not only in this area but other professional areas. They stand out with total natural ability, I remember many years ago a chiropractor (human). . There are a lot of mediocre chiros but this chap was out of this world. He had exceptional ability, could call it a gift, to sort your problem. Should he not have charged?
I paid him to get me out of pain in the same way that I paid Julie Dicker to do exactly the same for my horse. I knew her talents was exceptional so of course I expected to pay for them.

 

[maggiestar]

leaving aside if there are frauds out there which there undoubtedly are why would someone do it for free?

No one is forced to use either a medium, an AC or anyone else. It is a personal choice.

Some people are very gifted, not only in this area but other professional areas. They stand out with total natural ability, I remember many years ago a chiropractor (human). . There are a lot of mediocre chiros but this chap was out of this world. He had exceptional ability, could call it a gift, to sort your problem. Should he not have charged?
I paid him to get me out of pain in the same way that I paid Julie Dicker to do exactly the same for my horse. I knew her talents was exceptional so of course I expected to pay for them.

Hmm, Paddy you've made me think about this because you do make a good point. I think I'm essentially cynical about whether professional psychics have the gift they say they do. I used to be quite good friends with a professional tarot reader who often did events and fairs where she would be doing readings one after the other - there would literally be a queue of people and it made me wonder whether it was possible for one person to spiritually connect with so many random people for hours at a time without a break. She did it because she was being paid per reading so the cash was mounting up. On the other hand I've known people to have had genuinely 'psychic lightbulb' moments or visions that came true. I've had it myself on very rare occasions. It's not something you can predict (no pun intended!) so it would be impossible to wring a profession out of it.

 

[Birker2020]

I've got strong feelings about professional psycics of all kinds, whether they're tarot readers, mediums, or animal communicators. If the gift was real they would tell their visions for free. I don't believe that it can be turned on like a tap. So how can the 'visions' or 'messages' suddenly appear when money is involved? I am open minded about ghosts and psychic stuff etc but sadly there are many charlatans and cold readers out there who will manipulate vulnerable and gullible people for cash.
Edited to add it's dreadful when bereaved people are taken advantage of but it's unforgivable if 'psychic messages' are used to determine an animal's treatment.

They have to interpret messages through a medium whether that be horse, dog, cat, or whatever.

 

[equinerebel]

As in all industries, you will find chancers and fakes taking advantage of the vulnerable and desperate. However, that doesn’t negate the genuine.

I’ve never used an animal communicator, but I have experience with mediums.

It’s a little insulting to say anyone who believes in that sort of thing have been fooled. Somethings we just don’t understand and if it brings someone comfort, leave it be.

Obviously, if someone is listening to that over the advice of a vet, that’s a welfare issue.

 

[paddy555]

I think with colours quite a bit, in that my brain assigns colours to things that you otherwise can't see, particularly flows of energy. So if I'm ever massaging a horse or a human (not something I do often but on the odd occassion), I can quite easily see that although there is a knot or tension in one place, it can actually be traced back to somewhere different causing it. I've often thought that that (or a similar) natural brain phenomenon, coupled with a bunch load of experience and in depth knowledge of physiology (neither of which I have) would make the sort of ability that it sounds like this lady had.

that's interesting. I haven't thought about colours when massaging. What I do get is pain, a lot of pain that goes through my hands and into my arms. I have to get rid of the pain before I can continue. At least it tells me where a problem lies but it does hurt.
How the brain "thinks" is fascinating. Temple Grandin thinking in pictures. To some extent I do the same.