Horse wont come out of his stable

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Mrs. Jingle said:
Freak accidents but even so😞

Event horse Elektron dies after accident on horse-walker - Horse & Hound

Owners Chris and Lisa Stone are warning others about the possibility of serious incidents involving horse-walkers after the death of their four-star horse in a freak accident
www.horseandhound.co.uk www.horseandhound.co.uk

www.theirishfield.ie

NEWS: Freak walker accident claims RD Powerplay

An accident in a horse walker sadly killed Mikaela Weld's talented show jumper RD Powerplay on Wednesday
www.theirishfield.ie www.theirishfield.ie
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I personally know of one that pulled his tongue off on a walker.
Also a yard I did a little holiday cover for had lost one the day before I started. It wouldn’t go forward so someone put the shockers on and it freaked so much it fell and broke its pelvis. Was pts. :(
 
poiuytrewq said:
Yep, I have a dog who got a shock off a fence many many years ago and still won’t go near a field with horses. He obviously puts the two together.
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One of our dogs won’t run in the direction of the electric fence in the field bc she got shocked once. She loves her ball but will only chase it one way now. Animals do experience stress in association with things that have hurt them.
 
Can I ask whether you have had words with the person that did this to your horse ?

If yours was already on the Walker without electric on and they turned it on then I would have gone absolutely ballistic. You obviously now have trauma induced behavioral issues that you have to put time and potentially money into correcting, but it could have also been physical injuries if your horse had panicked whilst onthere
 
I might have missed this in the other replies but, is it possible for your horse to change stables to try and break the association which he has had whilst in his current one?
Sending you both best wishes in getting this sorted out.
 
As others have said you have to associated leaving the stable as something to look forward to not something to worry about, if he will follow a friend to their turnout area that would be great, if he would not then I would do some enrichment mats - I would do a trail out of his stable, popping some meadow nuts for on top of mats for him to find so he concentrates on looking for those and builds up his confidence when leaving the stable. You can slowly start to increase the distance between the mats as he gets happier to leave his stable. Make sure you reward him for his confidence, lots of scratches etc and keep rewarding him for leaving the stable so that he builds up the connection of leaving the stable with something good.
 
Rowreach said:
Honestly it's not like you're holding a taser to their chests, it's absolutely no different to putting them in a field with electric fencing and most horses treat it the same way. If they don't like the zap (and it really is a mild zap, I have tried it) then they keep moving, and if they don't mind it or are small enough or canny enough, then they will position themselves so it doesn't touch them and they can still stop the walker. It's a taught thick metal wire between rubber bushels, not the whole partition that's zappy.

Whether you are a fan of the walker as a tool or not (and having used them for years I'd say they are a very useful tool, if used correctly, for a purpose, and not exhaustively) they are not instruments of torture by virtue of having electrified pushers.

OP I'd be very surprised if the zap was the only thing that upset your horse, I would bet something else frightened him as well, but that doesn't solve your problem.
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I'm with Rowreach on this and tend to agree but was scared to admit as i am so often jumped on. I've used the zapper in the past, you can damage the engine on a walker if a horse insists on leaning against it so it does have it's uses. But used quickly and not left on. And used when you know the horse is being deliberately evading and not struggling to keep up with the speed or have issues.

I think there's more than the walker issue with your horse. Horses are like dogs, tend to live in the moment. If you don't believe me read this! https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...youve-called-the-vet-for.830959/post-15291954
 
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I dislike electric around horses in general but apparently zapping the horse in a pasture is acceptable but zapping it on a walker is not? The hypocrisy of the equine world never fails to amaze me. No doubt someone will stamp their hoof and bleat how "it isn't the same" when what they really mean is "I've used electric fencing so obviously that's ok". Personally I don't think electrocuting our horses is ever acceptable but there we are 🤷‍♀️ apparently it is in some circumstances but not in others.....
 
I never knew electric could be used on a horse walker!! Back in my day they would tie a branch with leaves on that would encourage the horse forward if it stopped.
 
Ridiculous to state that electrocuting a horse within an extremely small space with no safe means of escape is the same as the zap off an electric fence. :rolleyes:

One requires the horse to move away into a large area from a boundary line, clearly marked by tape that they can clearly see as A MATTER OF IMMEDIATE SAFETY FOR THE HORSES WELLBEING.

Two requires the horse to enter a very small enclosed metal box that has no visual sign of imminent danger to the horse, with no means of escape from that small metal box, zap it when it moves in any direction other than forwards at a pace you deem suitable, ALL BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO BONE IDLE TO EXERCISE YOUR OWN HORSE OR EMPLOY ENOUGH STAFF TO EXERCISE LIVERYS FOR YOU.
 
Trickywooo said:
I dislike electric around horses in general but apparently zapping the horse in a pasture is acceptable but zapping it on a walker is not? The hypocrisy of the equine world never fails to amaze me. No doubt someone will stamp their hoof and bleat how "it isn't the same" when what they really mean is "I've used electric fencing so obviously that's ok". Personally I don't think electrocuting our horses is ever acceptable but there we are 🤷‍♀️ apparently it is in some circumstances but not in others.....
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Well there is an argument that electric fencing is a solution to a safety issue. It can be dangerous for a horse not to be where they are supposed to be, either to themselves, other horses or other people. So ethically that's slightly different to using an electric shock for "discipline" which is what the walker shocks seem to do. And of course the horse has more of a choice in a paddock as other have covered. I don't like electric fencing but it is a "necessary evil" that is better than the alternative.

I don't like walkers either though. Lock yourself in a box room in the dark on a treadmill with no headphones and no TV on the front of it, alone with your own thoughts, and see how long you enjoy it for. Maybe some people would want a treadmill that gives you a zap if you slow down, but I don't think you'd be allowed to install them in PureGym without significant signage and a waiver 😂
 
I'm another who has never used a walker and didn't know electric was used.
I don't get the comparison with an electric fence, which I do use. Our horse/pony learned very quickly after a zap to keep away from the electric fence , pony in particular throws snorting dramatics when asked to walk through the gap when the fence is opened.
If she had a zap in the combined space of a walker I can almost guarantee I would never get her in there again, and there is every chance she would injure herself in the ensuing meltdown.
 
I don't like electric fencing either, so am I allowed to continue saying that giving an animal an electric shock in order to keep it walking in a circle it cannot escape from is cruel?

A horse cannot consent to being exercised, period. All they can do is tell us if they're not happy/uncomfortable/in pain/vibes are off etc. By having two electric components either end and boxing them in, you have denied them the ability to do anything other than walk on. There is no benefit to the horse, and no reward. It is "do as I say or have immediate discomfort/pain/fear, then continue until I say you can stop." . It is clearly not a direct comparison to electric fencing, and you know that.

Unlike careful and considered training on the ground or under saddle, horse walkers only benefit humans, and have the additional fun of being able to emit electric shocks if the animal doesn't comply. How novel.
 
Landcruiser said:
It absolutely is not the same thing. In a field they can lie down, move around, do as they please and avoid ever touching the fence. In a walker they are forced to walk, like it or not, in small circles in a confined cubicle - and to zap them up the backside if they dawdle or stop is just inhumane. We will never agree on this.
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Agreed. They are able to avoid the stimulus.
Rowreach said:
(having proved that they are barbaric/inhumane/instruments of torture etc etc).
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The concept of learned helplessness as a result of the inability to avoid adverse stimuli has been proven a million times over. Good luck getting ethical approval for a study to prove this specifically with walkers. I sit on two ethical committees (an Animal Welfare Ethical Review Board and Non-Animal in Scientific Procedures Act sub-committee) and I can categorically say that it would not get clearance.

OP, to bring this back to you. In your position I would do some positive reinforcement work (clicker training), starting with some simple target work in the doorway, moving slightly further out. Without being with you, it's difficult to design a tailored programme, but if you're not familiar with CT, you'd do much worse than contact someone like Ben Hart, who will help you with a shaping plan to increase your boy's confidence.
 
smolmaus said:
Well there is an argument that electric fencing is a solution to a safety issue. It can be dangerous for a horse not to be where they are supposed to be, either to themselves, other horses or other people. So ethically that's slightly different to using an electric shock for "discipline" which is what the walker shocks seem to do. And of course the horse has more of a choice in a paddock as other have covered. I don't like electric fencing but it is a "necessary evil" that is better than the alternative.

I don't like walkers either though. Lock yourself in a box room in the dark on a treadmill with no headphones and no TV on the front of it, alone with your own thoughts, and see how long you enjoy it for. Maybe some people would want a treadmill that gives you a zap if you slow down, but I don't think you'd be allowed to install them in PureGym without significant signage and a waiver 😂
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Does the horse know the different 🤔 the outcome is the same surely? Horse gets a zap. It's either acceptable or it isn't 🤷‍♀️

Also the amount of nasty accidents I've seen electric fencing cause, one particular incident where horse got its leg caught in the tape of the electric fence, panicked and degloved practically from its hock half way dowm the cannon bone, I would very much argue against using them in the interest of "safety".
 
Trickywooo said:
I would very much argue against using them in the interest of "safety".
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I would very much argue their use for "safety", to back up existing barbed wire fencing you are not allowed to remove, very deep ditches, sycamore trees or inadequate natural hedging. Of course there have been injuries over the years, nothing on earth is fail safe but surely better to at least try to mitigate dangerous possibilities. I can assure you over 7 decades of horse keeping I have seen far more horrific life ending injuries sustained due to insecure boundaries not being doubled up with electric fencing, than I have with electric fencing. More often than not horses injured by becoming entangled in electric fencing is insufficient power to the fence line and or, badly installed posts and tape.

The most obvious point you seem to be missing is that in a paddock or field set up a horse has ample opportunity to safely escape from the area that is giving him a zap, mostly the horse is an intelligent animal and will soon recognise that length of tape or string and learn to stay safely within its boundaries. In a tin box there is no such safe escape route is there?

Yes of course I think giving any horse a zap from electric fencing to keep it safe and uninjured is something that on balance, I find acceptable. The iron box with the electric zaps for the benefit of the human, then no, totally unacceptable.
 
Trickywooo said:
Does the horse know the different 🤔 the outcome is the same surely? Horse gets a zap. It's either acceptable or it isn't 🤷‍♀️

Also the amount of nasty accidents I've seen electric fencing cause, one particular incident where horse got its leg caught in the tape of the electric fence, panicked and degloved practically from its hock half way dowm the cannon bone, I would very much argue against using them in the interest of "safety".
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Do horses know the difference between a field where they can eat, sleep, run around, play with friends, groom etc etc with a fence they can easily avoid touching and stay away from and being stuck in a tiny box that will shock them if they do anything but walk forwards at a set pace? Yeah I reckon they know the difference
 
For me a horse walker is a necessary piece of kit. My last TB would not tie up without pulling back. During winter he stayed in 2 days a week (out for almost 10 hours on the other days before people come at me for that) and on those days I need to muck him out. Yes I could do it around him but I prefer not to. So he would get popped on the walked for 15-20 minutes while I mucked out and sorted his hay so he had a leg stretch and wasnt cooped up in his stable. He also got ridden on those days but again middle of winter I could only school most days so a nice long hack is out the question. No I personally never used the electric shocks on the walker for my horse. But a horse walker is now pretty high on the list of must haves for when I was looking for livery yards for my next horse so I can get them out my way when mucking out, when they arent going out in the field to allow them a leg stretch.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
Ridiculous to state that electrocuting a horse within an extremely small space with no safe means of escape is the same as the zap off an electric fence. :rolleyes:

One requires the horse to move away into a large area from a boundary line, clearly marked by tape that they can clearly see as A MATTER OF IMMEDIATE SAFETY FOR THE HORSES WELLBEING.

Two requires the horse to enter a very small enclosed metal box that has no visual sign of imminent danger to the horse, with no means of escape from that small metal box, zap it when it moves in any direction other than forwards at a pace you deem suitable, ALL BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO BONE IDLE TO EXERCISE YOUR OWN HORSE OR EMPLOY ENOUGH STAFF TO EXERCISE LIVERYS FOR YOU.
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Clearly rattled your feathers.... I stand by my comments. I don't personally think it is ever acceptable to electrocute our horses. You can stamp your feet and throw as much of a shouty capital letter temper tantrum as you wish but the outcome is the same. The horse gets a zap. Get down off your high horse and stop demonising people who use it in horse walkers but trying to justify your own use of electric fencing. That is the very definition of hypocrisy in my book. I've clearly touched a nerve so perhaps that's says it all really.
 
Peglo said:
Do horses know the difference between a field where they can eat, sleep, run around, play with friends, groom etc etc with a fence they can easily avoid touching and stay away from and being stuck in a tiny box that will shock them if they do anything but walk forwards at a set pace? Yeah I reckon they know the difference
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Keep telling yourself that 👍

And well done about completing ignoring the rest of my post 😉
 
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