Horse wont come out of his stable

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humblepie said:
To lighten this slightly re electric fences - OH is convinced my old horse deliberately made OH lean over an electric fence to give horse a carrot in a way that horse was well away from fence but OH wasn't. Clever horse, less clever human.....
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The staff saw Lari on more than one ocassion lick the electric fencing strand in between his paddock and his friends paddock when it was on. He's always been weird but that's crazy.
 
rhino said:
So you wouldn’t give a horse a vaccination or let it undergo veterinary treatment? Because it’s complete unacceptable to cause pain under any circumstances? Or is sticking needles in to a horse, for instance, sometimes ok?
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Are you honestly suggesting a thin needle and electric shock are the same thing? There is also the fact that the purpose of the electric shock is to cause the animal pain, and therefore comply. The purpose of the vaccination is to administer medication so unless you are chasing your horse round with a large needle to make it move, they are not the same thing in the slightest.
 
Birker2020 said:
It didn't read like that. But I am big enough to apologise.
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If we’re talking apologising, have you yet apologised for nicking a photo which was not yours to access and for posting it on the forum in an attempt to pour scorn on another poster?

Though the attempt backfired big time for you as the photo showed something very different to what you snarkily thought it did, and it was much complimented on by other posters?

I presume it was that action which earned you your recent week’s holiday from the forum?
 
Trickywooo said:
I don't think it's me that's missing a very important point. The outcome is the same. You are causing the animal to comply by causing it pain. Regardless of the "context" of which I think the horse doesn't give a flying fig about to be honest, pain is being inflicted on the animal. What you and everyone else who is trying to justify the use of electric fencing yet look down on the use of horse walkers are basically saying, is that it's fine to inflict pain on your horses in SOME circumstances. Sorry but I will never agree with that line of thinking. Keep your horse how you see fit but don't look down on others for doing exactly the same thing as you! 🤷‍♀️
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the outcome is very much not the same.

In a field the horse has room to move away from the shock at what ever speed it chooses 'freedom' - my nervous one will moon walk backwards quite dramatically if he touches the fence with his nose.

In a walker the horse can move a couple of strides and that's it - no room to run from the perceived threat of harm.

In isolation the zap may be similar, but how the horse is able to deal with it's reactions are very different.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
I had one of my collies with me when I was moving electric fencing, she came up out of a ditch soaking wet and plonked herself down beside me on top of live fencing tape. My fault it was live, too lazy to walk back across the fields to turn it off. She was back up to the home place in record time, she never quite forgave me. :eek: She would not go within 10 feet of electric fencing again when she was with me, but happily scooted under it if with my OH or my sons. :oops: Moral of the story, walk the extra mile, literally, and don't be so lazy.😊
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I actually now always put the battery right by the gate. Mr P used to make me hide it miles away in a hedge and that’s how our dog got zapped. I’d rather upset him than the dogs so it now lives by the gate so I can disconnect instantly!
The guilt is too much for me to deal with 😂😬
 
Trickywooo said:
I don't think it's acceptable to shock a horse full stop.....
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Maybe this would be better on another thread. But please tell me how you would encourage a horse that you know has no physical issues to move forwards on the walker if you had to use one then?
We've heard all the arguments about how terribly cruel it is to zap a horse for a split second to encourage it to not lean on the walker and stop it moving forwards when there's seven other horses on it and people are busy trying to get stable chores done whilst their horses are warmed up prior to riding or whatever the circumstances are. On ours when I was at the yard the walker in the evenings after work in the winter was rarely ever off. There was always a horse on it. All my horses have used walkers.

It's easy to criticise but time and time again those that do fail to come up with any alternative suggestions.
 
Tiddlypom said:
If we’re talking apologising, have you yet apologised for nicking a photo which was not yours to access and for posting it on the forum in an attempt to pour scorn on another poster?

Though the attempt backfired big time for you as the photo showed something very different to what you snarkily thought it did, and it was much complimented on by other posters?

I presume it was that action which earned you your recent week’s holiday from the forum?
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Yes, lets add more fuel to the fire in this already chaotic thread 😂
 
Birker2020 said:
Maybe this would be better on another thread. But please tell me how you would encourage a horse that you know has no physical issues to move forwards on the walker if you had to use one then?
We've heard all the arguments about how terribly cruel it is to zap a horse for a split second to encourage it to not lean on the walker and stop it moving forwards when there's seven other horses on it and people are busy trying to get stable chores done whilst their horses are warmed up prior to riding or whatever the circumstances are. On ours when I was at the yard the walker in the evenings after work in the winter was rarely ever off. There was always a horse on it. All my horses have used walkers.

It's easy to criticise but time and time again those that do fail to come up with any alternative suggestions.
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Come on now. You ask them to walk on? You supervise your horse?
 
dorsetladette said:
the outcome is very much not the same.

In a field the horse has room to move away from the shock at what ever speed it chooses 'freedom' - my nervous one will moon walk backwards quite dramatically if he touches the fence with his nose.

In a walker the horse can move a couple of strides and that's it - no room to run from the perceived threat of harm.

In isolation the zap may be similar, but how the horse is able to deal with it's reactions are very different.
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We are now just going round in circles. The outcome, in my opinion, is very much the same, but if people want to tell themselves otherwise to try and justify it to themselves, that is up to them. We all must keep our horses how we see fit and that is the last I will be addressing this point. The horse has been shocked and caused pain. That is all that matters to me.

Birker2020 said:
Maybe this would be better on another thread. But please tell me how you would encourage a horse that you know has no physical issues to move forwards on the walker if you had to use one then?
We've heard all the arguments about how terribly cruel it is to zap a horse for a split second to encourage it to not lean on the walker and stop it moving forwards when there's seven other horses on it and people are busy trying to get stable chores done whilst their horses are warmed up prior to riding or whatever the circumstances are. On ours when I was at the yard the walker in the evenings after work in the winter was rarely ever off. There was always a horse on it. All my horses have used walkers.

It's easy to criticise but time and time again those that do fail to come up with any alternative suggestions.
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I personally would not use a horse walker, and especially with a horse that was reluctant to go forward on one. I would lunge, hand walk, or ride.
 
ester said:
It is possible to do all those things without a walker :)
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Birker2020 said:
It's easy to criticise but time and time again those that do fail to come up with any alternative suggestions.
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I think ester has already answered this one. I am sure you do not need a detailed crib sheet on how to do all the things you say using a walker achieves. Many of us have been doing so quite successfully for a long time now.
 
Birker2020 said:
Others just get bored and don't see the point.
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Which is fair enough, they shouldn’t be shocked for it.

Birker2020 said:
In my experience horses are not traumatised by such insignificant things.
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Mine touched an electric fence that was connected to the mains 5 years ago and is still traumatised from it, only evident whenever she hears the clicking sound. It was clearly not "insignificant" to her.

Birker2020 said:
There are many reasons why horse walkers are invaluable, in bad weather when a horse can't go out for example.

A sales livery yard for example with lots of horses all requiring warm up/cool down before riding

Exercise if a horse is on box rest - obviously not from a lameness injury!

As in Baileys case the vet advised when she had mild colic to bute and put on walker for 20 mins then put back in stable as the walking got rid of the gas bloat.

The electric zapper isn't meant to be left on. In Baileys case and the OP'S case it was left on by accident. I think people are missing this point!
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How does anyone else cope without a walker, I wonder? In any case, there's still zero justification to hook up an electrical shocker to it.

Sorry to quote so many posts from one poster, but those are the things I wanted to reply to.
 
Trickywooo said:
We are now just going round in circles. The outcome, in my opinion, is very much the same, but if people want to tell themselves otherwise to try and justify it to themselves, that is up to them. We all must keep our horses how we see fit and that is the last I will be addressing this point. The horse has been shocked and caused pain. That is all that matters to me.



I personally would not use a horse walker, and especially with a horse that was reluctant to go forward on one. I would lunge, hand walk, or ride.
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It would appear that you need to agree to differ with a majority.

WE (you and I) agree on one thing - I am not a fan of a walker either.

Do you have any advise for the original poster?
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
I think ester has already answered this one. I am sure you do not need a detailed crib sheet on how to do all the things you say using a walker achieves. Many of us have been doing so quite successfully for a long time now.
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I mean I didn’t see how it was an opinion thing 🤷‍♀️😅. I suspect more people have never had access to a walker than have and have managed to work these things out without too much bother.
 
Tiddlypom said:
If we’re talking apologising, have you yet apologised for nicking a photo which was not yours to access and for posting it on the forum in an attempt to pour scorn on another poster?

Though the attempt backfired big time for you as the photo showed something very different to what you snarkily thought it did, and it was much complimented on by other posters?

I presume it was that action which earned you your recent week’s holiday from the forum?
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I really hope they have.
Pretty gobsmacked they’d then think it ok to respond to/quote ID at all if they hadn’t
 
Trickywooo said:
Are you honestly suggesting a thin needle and electric shock are the same thing? There is also the fact that the purpose of the electric shock is to cause the animal pain, and therefore comply. The purpose of the vaccination is to administer medication so unless you are chasing your horse round with a large needle to make it move, they are not the same thing in the slightest.
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I’ll preface this by saying that I absolutely disagree with the use in a walker, but yes, electric fencing is absolutely fine.

How are you quantifying the “pain”?
There are infinite levels of electrocution some cause death, some we are incapable of feeling. Off a 12v battery run electric fence, it is a quick shocking zap, not a hideous agony. Why is “electrocuting” a horse to make it comply worse and less acceptable than any other method that applies pressure? Because the word sounds scary?

In a field with electric fencing, yes, I am ensuring that my horses are not in put in danger by their surroundings by electrocuting them. That is what it is, but they are an awful lot better off with a quick electric shock than a broken leg in a ditch. That would be painful.
 
dorsetladette said:
It would appear that you need to agree to differ with a majority.

WE (you and I) agree on one thing - I am not a fan of a walker either.

Do you have any advise for the original poster?
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The majority does not mean a thing. There are many things that were once thought acceptable that are now regarded as cruel and unnecessary. I believe the equestrian world has a lot to learn. I'm sure you'll all catch up eventually 😉

Re the OP other than what has been suggested of trying to encourage the horse with praise and making the "outside world" a pleasant happy experience. Do I need to add anything else when the OP has already been given plenty of appropriate advice?
 
Birker2020 said:
It's rarely used, just for those horses that insist on leaning on it for fun.

It's been on the yard 21 years now without an issue. If someone leaves the zapper on by accident and a horse gets a shock like Bailey did its forgotten about in minutes, much like electric fencing is. It's not the life changing event people are making it out to be. In my experience horses are not traumatised by such insignificant things.
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Get real. The horse in question is now very very upset, it may well take a lot of work on her part to try and get it sorted. Some horses you have met may well not be traumatised. I know some of mine that would.
 
equinerebel said:
Which is fair enough, they shouldn’t be shocked for it.


Mine touched an electric fence that was connected to the mains 5 years ago and is still traumatised from it, only evident whenever she hears the clicking sound. It was clearly not "insignificant" to her.


How does anyone else cope without a walker, I wonder? In any case, there's still zero justification to hook up an electrical shocker to it.

Sorry to quote so many posts from one poster, but those are the things I wanted to reply to.
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Been on three previous yards when I didn't have a walker but been on this yard 20 yrs and wouldn't be without. There worth their weight in gold. Like most things in life that evolve over time (wood pellets, wicking coolers and speedibeet are three examples just off the top of my head) are now indispensable to most people due to time saving and convenience.
 
Perhaps my autistic brain thinks differently, but I’m struggling to see how an electric fence in a field used to keep horses away from an area can in any way be compared to an electric panel that is forcing an animal to walk forward constantly in a contained space.

The horse can move freely away from the electric fencing, at his own speed and distance. A horse confined into a small area on a walker does not have that option. He is trapped and unable to flee, in a small area, while the thing that caused his discomfort constantly follows him.
 
Birker2020 said:
There are many reasons why horse walkers are invaluable, in bad weather when a horse can't go out for example.

A sales livery yard for example with lots of horses all requiring warm up/cool down before riding

Exercise if a horse is on box rest - obviously not from a lameness injury!

As in Baileys case the vet advised when she had mild colic to bute and put on walker for 20 mins then put back in stable as the walking got rid of the gas bloat.

The electric zapper isn't meant to be left on. In Baileys case and the OP'S case it was left on by accident. I think people are missing this point!
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in all those cases the horse can be exercised by walking in hand, walking ridden, put in an outside pen or yard or put in a field

however I think the rest of your post is crazy. Vet or no vet whoever is going to put a colicy, bloated horse in a walker pen when there is a chance, probably a good chance with colic, it will go down and try to roll.

as for the last line then a mistake was made with this horse. That mistake shouldn't have been allowed to happen. I am totally not missing this point and neither was this horse.
 
scats said:
Perhaps my autistic brain thinks differently, but I’m struggling to see how an electric fence in a field used to keep horses away from an area can in any way be compared to an electric panel that is forcing an animal to walk forward constantly in a contained space.

The horse can move freely away from the electric fencing, at his own speed and distance. A horse confined into a small area on a walker does not have that option. He is trapped and unable to flee, in a small area, while the thing that caused his discomfort constantly follows him.
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You are not alone in your thinking
 
scats said:
Perhaps my autistic brain thinks differently, but I’m struggling to see how an electric fence in a field used to keep horses away from an area can in any way be compared to an electric panel that is forcing an animal to walk forward constantly in a contained space.

The horse can move freely away from the electric fencing, at his own speed and distance. A horse confined into a small area on a walker does not have that option. He is trapped and unable to flee, in a small area, while the thing that caused his discomfort constantly follows him.
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I would reply but unfortunately I'm unable to see your post clearly due to the high number of ruffled feathers flying through the air on this thread 🤔
 
paddy555 said:
another suggestion would be if time and convenience as important to you maybe not have a horse? :rolleyes: a bike would work as well and doesn't need a walker.:D
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Similar thoughts just flashed through my mind. Is there a big divide here between people who enjoy looking after and being around their horses just as much as actually riding them, and those who would rather be just riding them and look on much of the taking care part of ownership as an irritating inconvenience? Just a thought.
 
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