Horse wont come out of his stable

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Trickywooo said:
Does the horse know the different 🤔 the outcome is the same surely? Horse gets a zap. It's either acceptable or it isn't 🤷‍♀️

Also the amount of nasty accidents I've seen electric fencing cause, one particular incident where horse got its leg caught in the tape of the electric fence, panicked and degloved practically from its hock half way dowm the cannon bone, I would very much argue against using them in the interest of "safety".
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The obvious difference is that the electric shock in the walker is following/chasing them and will keep getting them if they don't move, whereas the fence is stationary and they can move away from it.

Imo all manner of fencing can risk injury, from post and rail to wire to electric. Nasty accidents can sadly happen sometimes, but fencing is essential to keeping horses safe and contained. Most people who use electric will put break points in to avoid this though.
 
Trickywooo said:
Clearly rattled your feathers.... I stand by my comments.
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Oh please......if you knew even the smallest bit about me you would know my post is far from rattled and foot stamping tantrum. I can do far better than that if it makes you feel better about hurling personal insults at me rather than making your point without turning the thread into a personal vendetta and tantrum on your part. ;)
 
Miss_Millie said:
The obvious difference is that the electric shock in the walker is following/chasing them and will keep getting them if they don't move, whereas the fence is stationary and they can move away from it.

Imo all manner of fencing can risk injury, from post and rail to wire to electric. Nasty accidents can sadly happen sometimes, but fencing is essential to keeping horses safe and contained. Most people who use electric will put break points in to avoid this though.
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I haven't said anything to the contrary. However I dislike the idea of inflicting pain on horses to make them comply. Be it staying in a field or walking forward on a horse walker. And I find it hypocritical to demonise the use of one whilst trying to justify the use of the other 🤷‍♀️
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
Oh please......if you knew even the smallest bit about me you would know my post is far from rattled and foot stamping tantrum. I can do far better than that if it makes you feel better about hurling personal insults at me rather than making your point without turning the thread into a personal vendetta and tantrum on your part. ;)
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I've done neither. I've made my points without the need for shouty capitals or storming off in a hissy fit and I'm unsure where I have personally insulted anyone? Perhaps take your own advice.
 
Trickywooo said:
I've done neither. I've made my points without the need for shouty capitals or storming off in a hissy fit and I'm unsure where I have personally insulted anyone? Perhaps take your own advice.
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Please stop being deliberately unpleasant for no good reason other than attract attention to yourself, it does nothing to bolster your argument.
 
Trickywooo said:
Does the horse know the different 🤔 the outcome is the same surely? Horse gets a zap. It's either acceptable or it isn't 🤷‍♀️

Also the amount of nasty accidents I've seen electric fencing cause, one particular incident where horse got its leg caught in the tape of the electric fence, panicked and degloved practically from its hock half way dowm the cannon bone, I would very much argue against using them in the interest of "safety".
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I think the horse does know the difference. If you find it unacceptable then that is your own personal ethics in your own context. If I was on my own yard and could sort my own containment and safety procedure to make electric tape unnecessary then I absolutely would! But context is important and if you are in a situation where horses need contained, other types of fencing either don't work, aren't available or are worse from a safety perspective (barbed wire sheep fencing etc I would argue is less visible and has the potential for more dangerous consequences) then a shock as the lesser of several evils is more ethical than it would be if you were choosing to use it in a context where it was not necessary.

My mare got a shock off a bit of tape through a grazing muzzle which did genuinely traumatise her for a good long while. The tape "broke the rules" as to her mind, she didn't actually touch it and she found that understandably very distressing. She still can't cope with the tick of a shorting fence without being quite stressed about it, so I am NOT a fan! We moved yards so she wouldn't have to use the grazing muzzle and currently we are in a place where we don't need to use electric tape but if push came to shove and it was either cope with tape or not be turned out, on balance she will have to cope with the tape for her own welfare.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
Please stop being deliberately unpleasant for no good reason other than attract attention to yourself, it does nothing to bolster your argument.
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Pot meet kettle I'm afraid. I'm not being deliberately unpleasant as you call it, I am simply stating my views which unfortunately, seem to have really got some people's backs up. That says more about them than me. If you disagree with my points then by all means keep scrolling. I stand by everything I've said.
 
smolmaus said:
I think the horse does know the difference. If you find it unacceptable then that is your own personal ethics in your own context. If I was on my own yard and could sort my own containment and safety procedure to make electric tape unnecessary then I absolutely would! But context is important and if you are in a situation where horses need contained, other types of fencing either don't work, aren't available or are worse from a safety perspective (barbed wire sheep fencing etc I would argue is less visible and has the potential for more dangerous consequences) then a shock as the lesser of several evils is more ethical than it would be if you were choosing to use it in a context where it was not necessary.

My mare got a shock off a bit of tape through a grazing muzzle which did genuinely traumatise her for a good long while. The tape "broke the rules" as to her mind, she didn't actually touch it and she found that understandably very distressing. She still can't cope with the tick of a shorting fence without being quite stressed about it, so I am NOT a fan! We moved yards so she wouldn't have to use the grazing muzzle and currently we are in a place where we don't need to use electric tape but if push came to shove and it was either cope with tape or not be turned out, on balance she will have to cope with the tape for her own welfare.
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I understand the difficulties you face if it is not your yard and therefore not your say.

I do not personally like the use of electrical fencing around horses and I don't like the idea of inflicting pain on horses to make them comply. However we all must do what we can. I also dislike confining horses in stables for 23 hours a day but again that is up to other owners how they choose to keep their horses.

What I take issue with are those on this thread who have demonised the use of electrical prods on horse walkers and yet happily justify their use of electric fencing. I find that downright hypocritical. It is either acceptable to zap your horse or it isn't 🤷‍♀️ but apparently that's ruffled quite a few feathers. Again we can go around in circles arguing how it isn't the same but ultimately you, not you personally, the general you, are inflicting pain on your horse to make it behave in a way you want. There is much we as equestrians do with our horses that I think in a few years will be seen for the unacceptable treatment that it is.
 
Trickywooo said:
Pot meet kettle I'm afraid. I'm not being deliberately unpleasant as you call it, I am simply stating my views which unfortunately, seem to have really got some people's backs up. That says more about them than me. If you disagree with my points then by all means keep scrolling. I stand by everything I've said.
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I think you probably just need to calm down a bit. Take a deep breath and chill, it’s really not worth getting so over excited while discussing something with random strangers. Be calm!
 
Trickywooo said:
I understand the difficulties you face if it is not your yard and therefore not your say.

I do not personally like the use of electrical fencing around horses and I don't like the idea of inflicting pain on horses to make them comply. However we all must do what we can. I also dislike confining horses in stables for 23 hours a day but again that is up to other owners how they choose to keep their horses.

What I take issue with are those on this thread who have demonised the use of electrical prods on horse walkers and yet happily justify their use of electric fencing. I find that downright hypocritical. It is either acceptable to zap your horse or it isn't 🤷‍♀️ but apparently that's ruffled quite a few feathers. Again we can go around in circles arguing how it isn't the same but ultimately you, not you personally, the general you, are inflicting pain on your horse to make it behave in a way you want. There is much we as equestrians do with our horses that I think in a few years will be seen for the unacceptable treatment that it is.
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And you do sound a bit calmer already!
 
Trickywooo said:
I understand the difficulties you face if it is not your yard and therefore not your say.

I do not personally like the use of electrical fencing around horses and I don't like the idea of inflicting pain on horses to make them comply. However we all must do what we can. I also dislike confining horses in stables for 23 hours a day but again that is up to other owners how they choose to keep their horses.

What I take issue with are those on this thread who have demonised the use of electrical prods on horse walkers and yet happily justify their use of electric fencing. I find that downright hypocritical. It is either acceptable to zap your horse or it isn't 🤷‍♀️ but apparently that's ruffled quite a few feathers. Again we can go around in circles arguing how it isn't the same but ultimately you, not you personally, the general you, are inflicting pain on your horse to make it behave in a way you want. There is much we as equestrians do with our horses that I think in a few years will be seen for the unacceptable treatment that it is.
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You keep saying this but you are missing the most important part, which is the context. One is a shock that cannot be escaped from without complying with unnatural behaviours, it can also cause panic as the shock is both front and back, potentially causing huge issues, the other is a shock that can be escaped from and avoided by carrying out normal horse behaviours.

The horse chooses to touch the electric fence. They do not choose to use the walker.
 
Peglo said:
If my horse was evading any work I asked of them I would try to figure out why, not electrocute them. Shouldn’t imagine figuring out why they were evading walking round aimlessly in a circle would be too difficult tbf.
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If you read what I wrote correctly

"The trouble is when you use the zapper you have to know when a horse is generally just being an a*se and not moving forward on the walker because it can. Or when it is exhausted or has a physical issue that makes it sore or uncomfortable and it struggles to keep up with either the speed or duration of he time its left on there."

you will see that the reason some horses evade walking forwards is due to physical issues. Others just get bored and don't see the point.
 
I'm Dun said:
Clicker training works fantastically for things like this. I'm not a rabid clicker trainer by any means, but in this instance it would be my go to. It rewards and tiny improvement and encourages the horse to offer behaviours, which is exactly what you want, as opposed to the frightened shut down horse you have now. Theres lots of videos on youtube to show you how to prime it.
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I'd be interested to see how you would use clicker training with a walker like ours then because of the way it's positioned inside the yard. You can only walk around 3/4 of the outside perimeter of it.
 
It's rarely used, just for those horses that insist on leaning on it for fun.

It's been on the yard 21 years now without an issue. If someone leaves the zapper on by accident and a horse gets a shock like Bailey did its forgotten about in minutes, much like electric fencing is. It's not the life changing event people are making it out to be. In my experience horses are not traumatised by such insignificant things.
 
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I had one of my collies with me when I was moving electric fencing, she came up out of a ditch soaking wet and plonked herself down beside me on top of live fencing tape. My fault it was live, too lazy to walk back across the fields to turn it off. She was back up to the home place in record time, she never quite forgave me. :eek: She would not go within 10 feet of electric fencing again when she was with me, but happily scooted under it if with my OH or my sons. :oops: Moral of the story, walk the extra mile, literally, and don't be so lazy.😊
 
I'm Dun said:
You keep saying this but you are missing the most important part, which is the context. One is a shock that cannot be escaped from without complying with unnatural behaviours, it can also cause panic as the shock is both front and back, potentially causing huge issues, the other is a shock that can be escaped from and avoided by carrying out normal horse behaviours.

The horse chooses to touch the electric fence. They do not choose to use the walker.
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I don't think it's me that's missing a very important point. The outcome is the same. You are causing the animal to comply by causing it pain. Regardless of the "context" of which I think the horse doesn't give a flying fig about to be honest, pain is being inflicted on the animal. What you and everyone else who is trying to justify the use of electric fencing yet look down on the use of horse walkers are basically saying, is that it's fine to inflict pain on your horses in SOME circumstances. Sorry but I will never agree with that line of thinking. Keep your horse how you see fit but don't look down on others for doing exactly the same thing as you! 🤷‍♀️
 
cmkeventing said:
For me a horse walker is a necessary piece of kit. My last TB would not tie up without pulling back. During winter he stayed in 2 days a week (out for almost 10 hours on the other days before people come at me for that) and on those days I need to muck him out. Yes I could do it around him but I prefer not to. So he would get popped on the walked for 15-20 minutes while I mucked out and sorted his hay so he had a leg stretch and wasnt cooped up in his stable. He also got ridden on those days but again middle of winter I could only school most days so a nice long hack is out the question. No I personally never used the electric shocks on the walker for my horse. But a horse walker is now pretty high on the list of must haves for when I was looking for livery yards for my next horse so I can get them out my way when mucking out, when they arent going out in the field to allow them a leg stretch.
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There are many reasons why horse walkers are invaluable, in bad weather when a horse can't go out for example.

A sales livery yard for example with lots of horses all requiring warm up/cool down before riding

Exercise if a horse is on box rest - obviously not from a lameness injury!

As in Baileys case the vet advised when she had mild colic to bute and put on walker for 20 mins then put back in stable as the walking got rid of the gas bloat.

The electric zapper isn't meant to be left on. In Baileys case and the OP'S case it was left on by accident. I think people are missing this point!
 
Trickywooo said:
I don't think it's me that's missing a very important point. The outcome is the same. You are causing the animal to comply by causing it pain. Regardless of the "context" of which I think the horse doesn't give a flying fig about to be honest, pain is being inflicted on the animal. What you and everyone else who is trying to justify the use of electric fencing yet look down on the use of horse walkers are basically saying, is that it's fine to inflict pain on your horses in SOME circumstances. Sorry but I will never agree with that line of thinking. Keep your horse how you see fit but don't look down on others for doing exactly the same thing as you! 🤷‍♀️
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The outcome is not the same, because on a walker, the horse can't move away from the situation. Plus, the shock is coming from behind, so the negative stimulus is approaching the horse rather than the horse approaching the fence, which it can see.

Would it be acceptable to shock a horse into loading?
 
Birker2020 said:
I'd be interested to see how you would use clicker training with a walker like ours then because of the way it's positioned inside the yard. You can only walk around 3/4 of the outside perimeter of it.
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This is actually one of the reasons I won't use one. Usually R+ is how I introduce new things and there isn't a way to safely do that with a walker. It's not safe for me to be in there with her and she won't feel safe if I just chuck her in and stay outside so 🤷‍♀️ I like handwalking luckily, have had to do a lot of it 😂 Making the time to do it together is important for me, even without the above safety issue.
Birker2020 said:
It's rarely used, just for those horses that insist on leaning on it for fun.

It's been on the yard 21 years now without an issue. If someone leaves the zapper on by accident and a horse gets a shock like Bailey did its forgotten about in minutes, much like electric fencing is. It's not the life changing event people are making it out to be.
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It can be though. Every horses brain is slightly different and some will be more sensitive than others, physically or mentally. A horse could be fine with a shock from a fence, as they are able to move away freely and process, but not be fine with a shock from a walker as they are confined, especially if they then move away and are shocked again by the one in front!
 
Trickywooo said:
I don't think it's me that's missing a very important point. The outcome is the same. You are causing the animal to comply by causing it pain. Regardless of the "context" of which I think the horse doesn't give a flying fig about to be honest, pain is being inflicted on the animal. What you and everyone else who is trying to justify the use of electric fencing yet look down on the use of horse walkers are basically saying, is that it's fine to inflict pain on your horses in SOME circumstances. Sorry but I will never agree with that line of thinking. Keep your horse how you see fit but don't look down on others for doing exactly the same thing as you! 🤷‍♀️
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So you wouldn’t give a horse a vaccination or let it undergo veterinary treatment? Because it’s complete unacceptable to cause pain under any circumstances? Or is sticking needles in to a horse, for instance, sometimes ok?

This is honestly how stupid the whole argument is becoming. Electric fences are not of direct equivalence to electrified walkers. You only need to ask OPs horse…
 
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