Horses losing condition in the winter

Horses losing condition during the winter is usually down to poor management

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Wagtail

Wagtail

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Whilst we are in the midst of summer and all our horses are looking great, I thought I would raise the contentious subject of horses that lose condition in the winter.

I have cared for many horses over thirty years. No horse has ever lost condition over the winter whilst in my care. My personal belief is that if a horse can look great during the summer, then so long as it is adequately fed and kept warm and dry, there is no reason for it to lose condition over the winter months.

People might argue that it is because the horse is old or losing teeth, or ill. These are all valid reasons for a horse to lose condition, but these horses will lose condition at any time of the year, not just the winter. If they can eat enough to keep the weight on during the summer then provided they are given the correct forage (hay replacers etc) during the winter and kept warm, then they will thrive.

What do others think?

Incidentally, I think it is also bad to let horses get overweight. The yoyoing of weight from fat in the summer to thin in the winter is even worse IMO.

ETA there may be the occasional horse that loses condition due to the stress of being kept in during the winter. I can accept this scenario, even though I have not experienced it myself.
 
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Generally there is no reason as to why a horse should loose condition in the winter, you adjust feeding etc.... to reflect the conditions.

But I do believe in keeping the horses natural way of living asa close as possible and that is to include allowing them to drop some weight in the winter....NOTE drop weight not condition they ARE two different things!!!!

As if wild they would lose weight in the winter and then put it back on in the summer. You will rarely see a fat wild pony. Or for that matter one with laminatis.
 
Bug2007 said:
Generally there is no reason as to why a horse should loose condition in the winter, you adjust feeding etc.... to reflect the conditions.

But I do believe in keeping the horses natural way of living asa close as possible and that is to include allowing them to drop some weight in the winter....NOTE drop weight not condition they ARE two different things!!!!

As if wild they would lose weight in the winter and then put it back on in the summer. You will rarely see a fat wild pony. Or for that matter one with laminatis.
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Of course wild horses lose weight in the winter. That is because the grass loses its nutrients and there is not so much food around generally. However, we are keeping domestic horses that we expect to work for us and we can provide them with the forage needed so they do not drop weight. Just because animals drop weight in the wild, or even starve, does not mean that is how we should manage them.

Do you also cut down your dogs food in the winter? As if he was in the wild he would drop lots of weight as food would be scarce.
 
My 5 year old mare drops weight, she gets as much haylage as she can possibly manage in winter , She does get hardfeed whenever shes in work if the weather allows etc .

At the minute she is now out of work again due to my hospitalisation and she has dropped weight due to not enough grass (haylage being fed out in the paddock) .

Good haylage can never make up for Dr green :) in my opinion .

So I do disagree with yourself .
 
Colleen_Miss_Tom said:
My 5 year old mare drops weight, she gets as much haylage as she can possibly manage in winter , She does get hardfeed whenever shes in work if the weather allows etc .

At the minute she is now out of work again due to my hospitalisation and she has dropped weight due to not enough grass (haylage being fed out in the paddock) .

Good haylage can never make up for Dr green :) in my opinion .

So I do disagree with yourself .
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Unless your horse just does not eat enough then it just does not make sense. Is it because she simply does not like haylage enough to keep her weight on? Have you tried feeding readigrass or graze-on? Or Allen and page fast fibre? My suggestion would be that if you found a forage that she likes as much as grass, that she would not drop weight. :)
 
I do feel that there are exceptions to simply a lack of feed being the only reason for weight loss.

An older horse's metabolism isn't the same as when he was younger and this can affect weight, it may also have dentition problems that can affect it and yet still gain weight in the summer; good grass is highly calorific and fairly easy to digest whereas hay and haylage do take much more chewing/digesting, so winter can be much more challenging anyway, with harsher conditions, lower temperatures etc all contributing to weight loss.

I have seen older horses and those with health issues deteriorate in winter despite ample food, even after doing well in the summer and this is one of the reasons that I am in favour of giving horses that are approaching the end of their lives a last summer rather than putting them through another winter.

I also feel it is beneficial to allow a slight weight loss over the winter, especially in overweight animals. Horses are often kept rather too well all year round and this can contribute to problems, allowing the metabolism problems to creep in such as insulin resistance and laminitis. A thinner horse has much less stress on joints, lungs/heart etc so winter can be a good opportunity for those that struggle with gaining weight over the summer months. (I'm certainly not condoning starving or underweight horses here btw.)

Other management issues also need to be looked at, such as dentistry, worming, rugging, clipping or not etc, they all combine alongside good diet to keep a horse healthy in winter.
 
Wagtail said:
Unless your horse just does not eat enough then it just does not make sense. Is it because she simply does not like haylage enough to keep her weight on? Have you tried feeding readigrass or graze-on? Or Allen and page fast fibre? My suggestion would be that if you found a forage that she likes as much as grass, that she would not drop weight. :)
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NONE of your suggestions have a higher DE than Haylage - especially the Fast Fibre which has a DE below maintenance and therefore should be fed to a good doer to keep weight down!
 
Although I have no scientific reasons for thinking this, I do like my horses to look covered going into Winter and to look leaner going into Spring. Mine live out and are really not pampered, they always lose weight over Winter, compared to Summer, I think there's something natural about it.
 
Amaranta said:
NONE of your suggestions have a higher DE than Haylage - especially the Fast Fibre which has a DE below maintenance and therefore should be fed to a good doer to keep weight down!
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I have known people get weight on their horses by using fast fibre. I add it to hard feed and it works wonders on poor doers that are too fizzy on conditioning feeds.
 
Wagtail said:
I have known people get weight on their horses by using fast fibre. I add it to hard feed and it works wonders on poor doers that are too fizzy on conditioning feeds.
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That will be because it is fibre and will help the horse's digestive system work more efficiently - it is NOT a subsitute for good haylage or indeed hay, although it is useful for horses who can no longer chew long fibre you would also have to add calories for weight gain.
 
I have never known a horse that did not eat more than enough haylage. I honestly have the problem of making sure horses don't GAIN weight over the winter. I don't feed ad lib, although I'd like to because they would all look pregnant if I did. I DO feed an average of 16 kg of haylage per horse per day split into five feeds.
 
Amaranta said:
That will be because it is fibre and will help the horse's digestive system work more efficiently - it is NOT a subsitute for good haylage or indeed hay, although it is useful for horses who can no longer chew long fibre you would also have to add calories for weight gain.
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I would never substitute good haylage, but with a horse that is not eating enough haylage, I would offer it in addition. I must have cared for well over 100 horses of all ages and breeds, and never had one lose weight, so I really do not understand it.
 
Obviously you don't allow the weight to drop like they do in the wild, that would be stupid, i was making the point that generally most horses in work or not (domesticated) will put on weight in the summer due to the grass and weather conditions. So letting them drop some weight in the winter is not a bad thing as it stops you have an unhealthy fat horse in the summer.

My horses are by no means skinny in the winter, they are perfect weight for the breeds that they are, but they are allowed to drop to this weight from the summer so they don't turn into hippo's come the spring.

I did at no point say that they should be skinny and starving.
 
siennamum said:
Although I have no scientific reasons for thinking this, I do like my horses to look covered going into Winter and to look leaner going into Spring. Mine live out and are really not pampered, they always lose weight over Winter, compared to Summer, I think there's something natural about it.
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I am with you on this one. To my mind it is more natural for the horse to do this.


BUT are we talking about weight or condition? The two are very different
 
What is 'natural' is not always better. It is not natural for horses to be ridden, so why should they be left to lose weight in winter when they actually need more fat to insulate them? Similarly, it is natural for them to gain weight during the summer, but this is not healthy for them. I think it is up to us as horse owners to ensure that our horses' weight stays at a steady healthy level throughout the year.
 
Horses are designed to pile on weight through the spring to prepare them for breeding and foaling and again in the autumn to prepare them for winter. It is totally UN Natural to come through the winter without losing that store of fat.

Guard against obesity and starvation and accept the fact that horses actually know what they are doing!

Maybe Wagtail would like to illustrate her point with some pictures of the 100 horses she has had over the years. Im sure im not the only one who would be interested in seeing how well they all look.
 
Ellies_mum2 said:
I am with you on this one. To my mind it is more natural for the horse to do this.


BUT are we talking about weight or condition? The two are very different
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Well as the title suggests condition .....Ill go with condition in that case :p, I think practically every horse in this country looses condition no matter how little .

Due to the lovely weather its not possible for me personally to keep the same condition as I would in summer .
 
Wagtail said:
I have never known a horse that did not eat more than enough haylage. I honestly have the problem of making sure horses don't GAIN weight over the winter. I don't feed ad lib, although I'd like to because they would all look pregnant if I did. I DO feed an average of 16 kg of haylage per horse per day split into five feeds.
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I assume that they dont get any hard feed ration with that amount of haylage?
 
spaniel said:
Horses are designed to pile on weight through the spring to prepare them for breeding and foaling and again in the autumn to prepare them for winter. It is totally UN Natural to come through the winter without losing that store of fat.

Guard against obesity and starvation and accept the fact that horses actually know what they are doing!

Maybe Wagtail would like to illustrate her point with some pictures of the 100 horses she has had over the years. Im sure im not the only one who would be interested in seeing how well they all look.
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Why do you find it so difficult to accept that horses can look in the same excellent condition throughout winter and summer? That is very strange. I started aged just 8 helping to look after my pony. At age nineteen I was groom and riding instructor at a riding school and hunting yard and became manager at age twenty looking after 36 horses and two staff. The horses were rapidly being bought and sold so I had experience of getting on for a hundred of them at that yard alone. I then went to uni as a mature student and gave up working with horses caring DIY for my own. After another ten years I gave up my job to work at home and bring up my two children. I took in horses for training and schooling at a rented yard. Eight years ago we bought our own yard and I opened my livery yard where I care for full and part livery and take in horses for training. So easily a hundred.

And why would you think anyone would post up pictures of their own or clients horses on a forum like this one? Especially if they run a horse related business. :confused:
 
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spaniel said:
Horses are designed to pile on weight through the spring to prepare them for breeding and foaling and again in the autumn to prepare them for winter. It is totally UN Natural to come through the winter without losing that store of fat.

Guard against obesity and starvation and accept the fact that horses actually know what they are doing!

Maybe Wagtail would like to illustrate her point with some pictures of the 100 horses she has had over the years. Im sure im not the only one who would be interested in seeing how well they all look.
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Quite
 
Wagtail said:
I have never known a horse that did not eat more than enough haylage. I honestly have the problem of making sure horses don't GAIN weight over the winter. I don't feed ad lib, although I'd like to because they would all look pregnant if I did. I DO feed an average of 16 kg of haylage per horse per day split into five feeds.
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Well I have one in my present herd, she will not touch haylage but will eat hay quite happily. She is also very aged (32) and can drop off dramatically over winter if I don't keep an eye on her.

I agree with Spaniel that horses are actually designed to drop weight over winter and the fact that some uninformed owners think this is wrong is one of the reasons laminitis is so prevalent today.
 
I generally agree, obviously there are exceptions. My last mare, a tb who was a hat rack when I bought her was always a good doer.
The mare I have now was described to me as a poor winter doer but she is now what I would class as a good doer.
I don't feed much hard feed. I just ensure they are warm enough with enoughad lib hay/hayledge as possible.
Touch wood I have never had anything come very lean out of winter. Slightly lean if I know they will balloon on spring grass but apart from that they look rather good.
 
spaniel said:
Horses are designed to pile on weight through the spring to prepare them for breeding and foaling and again in the autumn to prepare them for winter. It is totally UN Natural to come through the winter without losing that store of fat.

Guard against obesity and starvation and accept the fact that horses actually know what they are doing!

Maybe Wagtail would like to illustrate her point with some pictures of the 100 horses she has had over the years. Im sure im not the only one who would be interested in seeing how well they all look.
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Where is the LIKE button when you want it? :D
 
Baggybreeches said:
I assume that they dont get any hard feed ration with that amount of haylage?
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They get Alfa A and high fibre cubes. A couple who are in medium work also get competition mix. The good doers obviously get less than the others. But I never understand how anyone maintains a horse's condition on only 10 kg of haylage unless they are on loads of hard feed.

Also during the winter, my horses do not go out on grass. They have haylage nets in an all weather turnout, so the 16 kg of haylage is the only forage they get.
 
Thaks for the CV although I dont think that was really necessary. A photo would have done just as nicely.
 
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