Horses who go better in a double bridle

[Booboos]

My current dressage wonderboy is still spooking big time at arena letters after two whole seasons (ex winter) of competition. Can anyone help with that? I have so far tried:

- ignoring him
- punishing him (the dressage judge commented that I was absolutely right to do so, from what she saw of his demeanour)
- letters at home
- letters on a big white feed bucket, fed just before he goes into the arena
- at home, weaving back and forwards closer until he ignores them - if this works today, it won't stop him starting exactly the same way tomorrow (actually he rarely spooks at the letters at home, but he is wild about some blue plastic barrels I have)
- a double bridle - and boy what a mistake that was even though he goes forwards beautifully to a snaffle !!!

More ideas, please, if he just does his natural paces without spooking he scores 70% and over because he's such a nice mover, but he's only done it twice in the whole two seasons. On the ground he's a puppy dog to manage, sweet and willing.

Maybe I should start a new thread with this one?

I don't know if you started a new thread on this, but if not, try operant conditioning. It's a really fast way of overcoming fears. Start him off in hand with all the letters round the school as normal. If he looks at a letter, click and reward, if he takes a step towards a letter, click and reward. Work at it until he is willing to walk up to a letter and eventually touch it with his nose. Keep rewarding the behaviour he offers rather than pushing him to act. When he is completely used to this leave treats on the letters. I would imagine that at this stage you can work on him ridden. If leaving treats on the letters won't work you need an assistant on the ground to click and treat everytime he goes near the letter. Repeat in another venue (you may need to start from the beginning with in hand work). Hopefully he will get the idea.

 

[TarrSteps]

Re back to the strong horse for a moment. . .

The one I mentioned was also a phenomenal athlete, very well bred, being of the last sons of a famous stallion that produced multiple medallists and champions but was known for producing very forward, tough, complicated horses. I'm sure this horse's innate ability and drive to get the job done was both his blessing and his curse - it never occurred to him to quit, literally or figuratively, so his reaction to pain and misunderstanding was to drive ever more strongly forward.

Makes you think. . .

 

[cptrayes]

Re back to the strong horse for a moment. . .

The one I mentioned was also a phenomenal athlete, very well bred, being of the last sons of a famous stallion that produced multiple medallists and champions but was known for producing very forward, tough, complicated horses. I'm sure this horse's innate ability and drive to get the job done was both his blessing and his curse - it never occurred to him to quit, literally or figuratively, so his reaction to pain and misunderstanding was to drive ever more strongly forward.

Makes you think. . .

Sounds familiar!

 

[cptrayes]

I don't know if you started a new thread on this, but if not, try operant conditioning. It's a really fast way of overcoming fears. Start him off in hand with all the letters round the school as normal. If he looks at a letter, click and reward, if he takes a step towards a letter, click and reward. Work at it until he is willing to walk up to a letter and eventually touch it with his nose. Keep rewarding the behaviour he offers rather than pushing him to act. When he is completely used to this leave treats on the letters. I would imagine that at this stage you can work on him ridden. If leaving treats on the letters won't work you need an assistant on the ground to click and treat everytime he goes near the letter. Repeat in another venue (you may need to start from the beginning with in hand work). Hopefully he will get the idea.

Thankyou for that suggestion.

He'll happily approach letters and eat treats off them at home. He'll eat treats off a letter (big white bucket with X on in in black tape) just before the judge rings the bell. I just can't get him to transfer it inside the arena, any ideas how to do that bit?

 

[Booboos]

Thankyou for that suggestion.

He'll happily approach letters and eat treats off them at home. He'll eat treats off a letter (big white bucket with X on in in black tape) just before the judge rings the bell. I just can't get him to transfer it inside the arena, any ideas how to do that bit?

Maybe ask a judge to indulge you, enter H/C and spend the test going round getting a friend to give him treats at the letters, doing as many of the movements as you can in between? I imagine he probably feels the tension of the moment of the test and that's enough to tip him into worrying about it.

 

[Goldenstar]

Thankyou for that suggestion.

He'll happily approach letters and eat treats off them at home. He'll eat treats off a letter (big white bucket with X on in in black tape) just before the judge rings the bell. I just can't get him to transfer it inside the arena, any ideas how to do that bit?

I think this type of behaviour can be what I call displacement spooking its my opinion it can be caused by the horse being placed under too much physiological pressure in the arena at competitions they learn that spooking gets the focus off the work and onto the the spook and a vicious circle starts.
Could this be the case with your horse in his past ?

 

[cptrayes]

Maybe ask a judge to indulge you, enter H/C and spend the test going round getting a friend to give him treats at the letters, doing as many of the movements as you can in between? I imagine he probably feels the tension of the moment of the test and that's enough to tip him into worrying about it.

Good idea, I'll do that if he starts again this spring. It certainly is a tension thing.

I think this type of behaviour can be what I call displacement spooking its my opinion it can be caused by the horse being placed under too much physiological pressure in the arena at competitions they learn that spooking gets the focus off the work and onto the the spook and a vicious circle starts.
Could this be the case with your horse in his past ?

I understand exactly what you mean, but don't think it's physiological pressure, he's working at far higher levels at home than he is asked to do in a Prelim test and much harder too, than the work involved in one Prelim and one Novice. I don't overwork the warmup as I am currently interested in despooking, not in getting a fabulous score.

I am sure it's psychological though, the question is just how to get him out of it. Clearly I must be passing some tension to him, but I have worked hard on not doing that and I am a lot calmer than I ever used to be in a competition arena. He is a sensitive beast, bred to do this job at a high level, so pretty sharp.

It went really bad after a time when it was raining and he saw raindrops falling in the water in the top of the number stands. I let him look at it and play with the water and then the silly twit actually pulled it over and frightened himself. Up til then, he had really improved and then it all went to pot again

The interesting thing is that he can do a major strop-spook, half rearing, bucking, and then I can push him past and he carries on as if nothing had ever happened. He doesn't carry the tension forwards into the rest of the test. I find him very odd in that respect, but I also think it shows that it's not all me, or even mostly me.

Unfortunately all his competing and almost all of his training has been with me so I can't blame anyone else either

 

[Reggies1]

Think I may have to try this after 6 months of just snaffle and sore arms and hands it may be the way forward. He's just instantly light and lovely in his double

Mine is incredible strong and leans like no other I have ridden. I can’t hold in any snaffle ( tried the lot ) so currently In a rubber Pelham but wanting to try a double for showing. Any advice. All the usual have been checked teeth, back tac etc. Just proving to be a very strong girl.

 

[milliepops]

Mine is incredible strong and leans like no other I have ridden. I can’t hold in any snaffle ( tried the lot ) so currently In a rubber Pelham but wanting to try a double for showing. Any advice. All the usual have been checked teeth, back tac etc. Just proving to be a very strong girl.

Hi Reggies1, this is a very old thread (though a good read ) so I think you would be best to start your own one to ask your question, otherwise it might not get noticed.