Peter7917
Well-Known Member
Does happened upon this webpage
http://www.powa.org.uk/id82.html
Does this actually happen? Seems rather farfetched ..
http://www.powa.org.uk/id82.html
Does this actually happen? Seems rather farfetched ..
Hound 'culling'
- Thread starter Peter7917
- Start date
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
Sick, elderly or injured hounds will be pts. They are not pets and will never settle as a pet. The hunt has a duty of care to their hounds and yes pts is a duty of care task.
stormox
Well-Known Member
Most of the hounds in my local pack are considered too old, or slow at 7-8. Very few are kept after that age.
Peter7917
Well-Known Member
Yes I quite agree, however this article indicates they are shot?
angrybird1
Well-Known Member
Has anyone ever seen a hound in a vets surgery??
Starzaan
Well-Known Member
When we used to puppy walk foxhounds for the Heythrop the hunstman used to come do do all their injections etc. I never saw a hound in the vets, but the vet did come out to them a few times.
gunnergundog
Well-Known Member
Yes, and......? Just like some horses are injected and others are shot.....
The Fuzzy Furry
Getting old disgracefully
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
10 is an exceptional age for a foxhound - believe me, I had one as a pet. The rescue org. I got her from thought she was a foxhoundxlab (she definitely wasn't!) But she had no ear tattoo and had probably belonged to an unregistered Fell pack.
But my hunt kept at least one to 10 - I'd walked him so followed him with interest. He was a valued stallion hound and the terrier man had to pick him up part way through the day if it got a bit vigourous!
ETA - I did my best to steer very clear of the huntsman if he'd had to put a foxhound down - he WASN'T a happy man. But the hound died with absolutely no stress or pain - he trusted the man who ended his life completely! It was a job our huntsman NEVER delegated for that reason!
Auslander
Well-Known Member
If you're insinuating that hounds don't get veterinary treatment when required, you'd be wrong. They are valuable working animals, so failing to provide veterinary care would be pretty dumb
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
yes, frequently in the past, they do not use us as their vets anymore for political reasons but when they came in they were great big goofballs that peed everywhere
Clannad48
Well-Known Member
PTS is a better end than being 'rehomed' as a pet - ex hunt dogs do not make pets, they are unhappy unless in a pack, however 'crowded' it may seem. They will chase and hunt down anything smaller that moves, cats, smaller dogs, rabbits and, yes, even small children.
I had a 're-homed hunt dog' (beagle) many years ago, it did not settle to being a pet, despite some very intensive training, love, care and attention. It tried to chase/hunt everything it could. The end was when it chased and knocked over a small child who lived a couple of doors away. Speed and training counted for nothing, luckily the child came to no harm, the neighbours were very understanding and did not blame the dog at all, but their very small child for running away. After many hours of debating, getting advice and so forth I had to make the decision to PTS. It was the kindest thing for the dog. These animals are not and never will be 'pets' they are working animals who are usually bred for a specific reason. I now own another beagle, not an ex hunt dog, but a show dog that didn't make the grade as a rescue dog. However it will still chase deer and anything small that moves so is kept on a lead whenever we are out in an area that has deer. It is never allowed of the lead where there are livestock, lambs/calves etc.
I had a 're-homed hunt dog' (beagle) many years ago, it did not settle to being a pet, despite some very intensive training, love, care and attention. It tried to chase/hunt everything it could. The end was when it chased and knocked over a small child who lived a couple of doors away. Speed and training counted for nothing, luckily the child came to no harm, the neighbours were very understanding and did not blame the dog at all, but their very small child for running away. After many hours of debating, getting advice and so forth I had to make the decision to PTS. It was the kindest thing for the dog. These animals are not and never will be 'pets' they are working animals who are usually bred for a specific reason. I now own another beagle, not an ex hunt dog, but a show dog that didn't make the grade as a rescue dog. However it will still chase deer and anything small that moves so is kept on a lead whenever we are out in an area that has deer. It is never allowed of the lead where there are livestock, lambs/calves etc.
stormox
Well-Known Member
Yes the hounds are shot. The huntsman is trained and they dont suffer. They are killed in the place theyve lived all their lives. No stress of a vet and a needle... Huntsmen are also trained in stitching wounds, as pack hounds fight occasionally, or get injured by wire, or muntjacks. A huntsman is a true professional, good at his job, which is so much more than just controlling hounds when out hunting.
Orca
Well-Known Member
Agreed. The huntsman and whips attended to hounds when I lived at a hunt. They managed most treatments themselves and pts too. I never saw an unhappy hound (except maybe on a starvation day!) or one which was in pain. I'm not a hunt supporter but I know that pack were adored by those who cared for them. The way they handled and talked about individual characters in the pack spoke volumes. There is no way those people would have seen any of their hounds in pain or afraid.
chillipup
Well-Known Member
You were far too quick out the traps here A,
ETA, have I got this backwards already I interpreted AB's post as they were in favour of hunt home pts. Oh dear, sorry, if I've got it wrong again...
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spottybotty
Well-Known Member
Funnily enough Yes! but it had got seperated from the hunt and was bought into the surgery by a MOP
Auslander
Well-Known Member
You were far too quick out the traps here A, rule #?
Y'what??
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I took a foxhound bitch I had at home to whelp to your vets many years ago for an emergency caeser.
The huntsman can treat most minor ailments, like a good stud groom they don't call the vet out for every little thing. Hounds are generally healthy things, bar accidents.
Yes they got shot at the end, it is quite legal to shoot your own dogs.
chillipup
Well-Known Member
Sorry A, I interpreted AB as being in agreement with hunt pts at home....I tried to correct...but...* Gets coat and slinks off
eta that AB was in agreement for hounds to be shot at home....how wrong of me...i'll just read from now on
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Auslander
Well-Known Member
Sorry A, I interpreted AB as being in agreement with hunt pts at home....I tried to correct...but...* Gets coat and slinks off
eta that AB was in agreement for hounds to be shot at home....how wrong of me...i'll just read from now on
Don't be daft. I wasn't grumpy - just a bit confused!
LD&S
Well-Known Member
Happy to state from the off I am anti hunting.
I think it would be very naïve to imagine all hounds bred for hunting are suitable, that being the case any unsuitable hound has to be dealt with, this may be by putting to sleep, rehoming or finding an alternative form of work.
Judging by the small numbers of hounds cropping up in other spheres or on rehoming sites the vast majority are pts, following on from that I don't think many hunts would pay for the services of a vet as a huntsman with a bullet is far cheaper and also would provide an addition protein source for the remaining pack members.
Even 3-4 dogs together getting excited can end up with nasty injuries, when that number is perhaps 20+ and the hounds are chasing something, prey or scent, I expect there are fatalities or at the very least serious injury on a fairly regular basis across the various hunts.
I'm not sure that readers of the report should be horrified that the dogs are shot, after all quite a large proportion of horse owners choose shooting over the vet when the final day comes also generally we are still a nation of meat eaters and to the dogs it would just be a tasty meal in the same way humans might enjoy a steak.
I have never seen a hound at the vets but a lot of people visit town vets for their dogs and cats but the vet generally visits for horses or large animals also in practical terms there is likely to be more that one hound needing to checked over at a time so it would make sense for the vet to make a house call.
I think it would be very naïve to imagine all hounds bred for hunting are suitable, that being the case any unsuitable hound has to be dealt with, this may be by putting to sleep, rehoming or finding an alternative form of work.
Judging by the small numbers of hounds cropping up in other spheres or on rehoming sites the vast majority are pts, following on from that I don't think many hunts would pay for the services of a vet as a huntsman with a bullet is far cheaper and also would provide an addition protein source for the remaining pack members.
Even 3-4 dogs together getting excited can end up with nasty injuries, when that number is perhaps 20+ and the hounds are chasing something, prey or scent, I expect there are fatalities or at the very least serious injury on a fairly regular basis across the various hunts.
I'm not sure that readers of the report should be horrified that the dogs are shot, after all quite a large proportion of horse owners choose shooting over the vet when the final day comes also generally we are still a nation of meat eaters and to the dogs it would just be a tasty meal in the same way humans might enjoy a steak.
I have never seen a hound at the vets but a lot of people visit town vets for their dogs and cats but the vet generally visits for horses or large animals also in practical terms there is likely to be more that one hound needing to checked over at a time so it would make sense for the vet to make a house call.
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
What on earth makes you think a shot foxhound is fed to his fellow hounds ?
LD&S
Well-Known Member
I was commenting on the article and the fact that it stated it happened, I didn't say it did or didn't happen just that if it did the dogs wouldn't be aware they were eating anything other than a nice meal.
gunnergundog
Well-Known Member
The average huntsman has far more control and discipline of 20+ couple than the average Joe Bloggs does of 2 or 3 mutts. Also, when hounds are hunting, they are FOCUSSED on that, not on scrapping. Odd scrapes result from barbed wire/blackthorns but that is all. The occasional fatality/serious injury happens if a hound strays onto the road/railway line. Hounds live as a pack in kennels with an established hierarchy.
Irish gal
Well-Known Member
A lot of farmers and horse people do a lot of their own vet stuff, I mean the routine things like injecting antibiotics, without ever calling the vet out first. If the farmers didn't do it they would be totally broke, plus they are highly experienced with animals and have seen common ailments loads so know how to treat them. It's the same with the huntsmen, their level of interaction with the hounds would be similar, so I imagine they only get vets for something unusual.
It must be so tough on them shooting the older hounds though, can't imagine anything worse, couldn't do it myself.
It must be so tough on them shooting the older hounds though, can't imagine anything worse, couldn't do it myself.
Peter7917
Well-Known Member
For some reason I thought it was illegal to shoot a dog for euthanasia purposes. I've no issue with it. Thanks for the education
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
It would be far easier for the vet to go to hounds than vice versa.
The hounds i have seen have always been fit and healthy, amd i have been shown around kennels when viewing a horsebox... ended up playing with all the puppies! Dog/ hounds etc are pack animals so when raised together in a pack as foxhounds are they dont savage each other.
If you look at packs of wolves their instinct to protect each other is very strong.
Foxhounds will be 'closer' to wolves than certain pet breeds of dogs which is probably why they dont settle as well as pets. They have been selectively bred to hunt and be kept the eay they are.
Also putting to sleep old or ill hounds is not culling! Shooting a whole pack of healthy hounds would be...
The hounds i have seen have always been fit and healthy, amd i have been shown around kennels when viewing a horsebox... ended up playing with all the puppies! Dog/ hounds etc are pack animals so when raised together in a pack as foxhounds are they dont savage each other.
If you look at packs of wolves their instinct to protect each other is very strong.
Foxhounds will be 'closer' to wolves than certain pet breeds of dogs which is probably why they dont settle as well as pets. They have been selectively bred to hunt and be kept the eay they are.
Also putting to sleep old or ill hounds is not culling! Shooting a whole pack of healthy hounds would be...
LD&S
Well-Known Member
Following on from your reply I didn't mention fighting just that the dogs get excited and sometimes any inbuilt caution disappears and they do things or go places they wouldn't normally.
I gather you know far more about hunting and hounds than I will ever know but wondered if you could answer a question? I will pm you.
L&M
Well-Known Member
One of the puppies I walked got hit by a car autumn hunting - he was taken straight to the vets by the huntsman's wife, who was following in a car.......minor injuries are dealt with in kennels by our huntsman, such as wound care or routine injections.
As I understand there is a 'cull' at the end of each season of older hounds, but have known our huntsman hang on to them as long as he can justify their worth, even if they are only out a few times a season. I also understand he dispatches himself and finds that part of the 'job' very tough as is very dedicated to his pack, and its welfare.
As I understand there is a 'cull' at the end of each season of older hounds, but have known our huntsman hang on to them as long as he can justify their worth, even if they are only out a few times a season. I also understand he dispatches himself and finds that part of the 'job' very tough as is very dedicated to his pack, and its welfare.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
They certainly don't feed the carcass of old hounds to the pack. Dogs don't generally like the taste of other meat eaters, they didn't used to eat the fox, just break it up.
Some old hounds get drafted to a slower pack, our local mink hounds are mainly old slow foxhounds.
We retired an old hound here, as my OH had walked him as a pup and followed his whole successful hunting and stud career. It didn't work and he had to go back to the kennels and be PTS, both OH and the huntsman were devastated.
It is legal, as I said, to shoot your own dogs, you can also shoot your own horse if you know what you are doing.
Some old hounds get drafted to a slower pack, our local mink hounds are mainly old slow foxhounds.
We retired an old hound here, as my OH had walked him as a pup and followed his whole successful hunting and stud career. It didn't work and he had to go back to the kennels and be PTS, both OH and the huntsman were devastated.
It is legal, as I said, to shoot your own dogs, you can also shoot your own horse if you know what you are doing.