Hound 'culling'

I'm not a big hunting person but I trusted a huntsman to pts my horses which I've seen done incredibly professionally. Why not hounds. They go in their normal environment. Probably less stressful than when I had to take my dog to the vet to lie on a table and be injected to pts
 
Peter7917 said:
For some reason I thought it was illegal to shoot a dog for euthanasia purposes. I've no issue with it. Thanks for the education :)
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No, perfectly legal P, as long as an animal isn't caused any deliberate or unnecessary suffering in the process, and using a firearm is pretty instant, if done correctly.

I think a lot of people are unaware of this and having never witnessed it, appear to think it's a violent or cruel method of PTS. Many old working dogs are swiftly and painlessly dispatched, without any prior knowledge, fear or anticipation, using a firearm. A friends father is a gamekeeper, he puts down a bowl of grub for his old dog, and that's the end... notwithstanding the grief he's left to suffer from losing a well loved and close friend.
 
gunnergundog said:
The average huntsman has far more control and discipline of 20+ couple than the average Joe Bloggs does of 2 or 3 mutts. Also, when hounds are hunting, they are FOCUSSED on that, not on scrapping. Odd scrapes result from barbed wire/blackthorns but that is all. The occasional fatality/serious injury happens if a hound strays onto the road/railway line. Hounds live as a pack in kennels with an established hierarchy.
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THIS! And for the record, huntsmen definitely DO NOT feed dead hounds to the rest of the pack. What a ridiculous idea.
 
dominobrown said:
Also putting to sleep old or ill hounds is not culling! Shooting a whole pack of healthy hounds would be...
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I think that it is culling. It's the same thing when we cull deer, or any other animal for that matter. The elderly, sick or lame are killed. That's what culling is. Hounds are usually culled at around seven years old when their working life is over. Many are still otherwise healthy so it is still culling.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
I think the most telling thing about that story is once again, the RSPCA failed to involve the breed rescue about the dogs, not how they were PTS.

I don't see why captive bolt is so unreasonable when it comes to hounds or dogs. It would have been the kinder option for my old collie I think.
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I agree with you 100% on that. I just wanted to highlight the fact that it is not only hunts who shoot dogs. A lot of working gundog owners do the same, I think it is probably way less stressful than a visit to the Vet's surgery.
 
We had the local knacker out to dispatch (shoot) two old pet pigs recently. He did a splendid job; they didn't know a thing about it - and a pig will get wind of anything untoward faster than a dog would.
I have wondered about asking him if he does dogs. I know our dogs would rather not go to the vet.
 
minesadouble said:
I agree with you 100% on that. I just wanted to highlight the fact that it is not only hunts who shoot dogs. A lot of working gundog owners do the same, I think it is probably way less stressful than a visit to the Vet's surgery.
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I am very surprised they used captive bolt to kill those dogs I am not sure its legal. Free bullet is ok however I thought captive bolt is only classified as a means of stunning before bleeding.
I myself dispatch all my own animals including horses but would never use captive bolt.
 
Just going back to the control points made. I have met the local bloodhounds out walking on the roads. 3 horses and about 20 dogs. All perfectly under control.

And theres me who can't manage a single dog on the road if on horseback! (off road is fine)
 
I was involved with hounds in my youth. Yes, we did manage to control them most of the time but I can recall some memorable hunts. We once treed a cross country runner who had taken stand on top of a gate. We explained how lucky he had been as if they'd caught him in the open at ground level he could very well have been licked to death!:)

The coalman's jack russell also provided regular sport. Back then, coal was delivered by horse and cart and we dreaded hearing the sound of the hooves as the hounds would already have their ears pricked and be difficult to hold back! :D For some reason, the terrier always managed to escape.
 
Clannad48 said:
PTS is a better end than being 'rehomed' as a pet - ex hunt dogs do not make pets, they are unhappy unless in a pack, however 'crowded' it may seem. They will chase and hunt down anything smaller that moves, cats, smaller dogs, rabbits and, yes, even small children.

I had a 're-homed hunt dog' (beagle) many years ago, it did not settle to being a pet, despite some very intensive training, love, care and attention. It tried to chase/hunt everything it could. The end was when it chased and knocked over a small child who lived a couple of doors away. Speed and training counted for nothing, luckily the child came to no harm, the neighbours were very understanding and did not blame the dog at all, but their very small child for running away. After many hours of debating, getting advice and so forth I had to make the decision to PTS. It was the kindest thing for the dog. These animals are not and never will be 'pets' they are working animals who are usually bred for a specific reason. I now own another beagle, not an ex hunt dog, but a show dog that didn't make the grade as a rescue dog. However it will still chase deer and anything small that moves so is kept on a lead whenever we are out in an area that has deer. It is never allowed of the lead where there are livestock, lambs/calves etc.
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Are u joking?? What a ridiculously generalised statement.
We have rehomed 2x foxhounds and although it took alot of training and time, it was totally do able.
 
I dont find it cruel that they shoot them; it is probably far more humane than going into a clinical environment such as a vets. What i do find disgusting is the 'disposable' attitude SOME hunts have. Oh yes lets cull the ones that are 7years and over. How wasteful. We rescued a hound at 8years old and although took some time to train, turned out to be loyal, kind, EASY GOING, and lived until she was 16 without costing us a penny.
 
kateandluelue said:
Are u joking?? What a ridiculously generalised statement.
We have rehomed 2x foxhounds and although it took alot of training and time, it was totally do able.
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Definitely not joking, and not ridiculously generalised - if you have been able to successfully rehome then you have been extremely lucky as are the dogs you have rehomed - I have been involved with hunts and beagles for over 50 years, many many times dogs taken to be rehomed as pets ended up being returned to the hunt as unable to be trained effectively. And I am not talking about people with no experience of hunt dogs, one of the hunt masters took a couple of the older dogs to be rehomed as pets and was devastated when it did not work out. I think a lot may depend on how long the dogs have been hunted as to whether it will be successful. In past times a dog stayed with the hunt for longer, nowadays with so many hunts having to cut back, some dogs may have only hunted for a couple of seasons
 
kateandluelue said:
Are u joking?? What a ridiculously generalised statement.
We have rehomed 2x foxhounds and although it took alot of training and time, it was totally do able.
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How many "normal" dogs are in rescue kennels with behavioural problems that are hard to fix, let alone trying to retrain dogs that are not designed for it
 
wench said:
How many "normal" dogs are in rescue kennels with behavioural problems that are hard to fix, let alone trying to retrain dogs that are not designed for it
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I would say a hound that has had a good life and not been abused would be easier to train than some of the sorry states of abused dogs that end up in rehoming centres. Just adds weight to the argument that the hunts treat their animals as disposable commodities. Ive had pro hunt friends that have changed against the hunts due to their treatment of both the hounds and horses. If they cared about their hounds they would try their hardest to rehome and give their dogs who have been loyal to them for 7 years of their life, a future.
 
I don't know if it counts but we have a rehomed fell hound, complete with ear tattoos. We had her at the age of 2 when it became clear that she didn't really fancy the job in hand! She is not really like other 'dogs' but an understanding of hound mentality and needs, coupled with her very sweet and laid back nature means that for us she is an unqualified success. We have had her 5 years. She has met the local hunt pack occasionally but other than being polite she has shown no desire to join them. I don't have any problem with hounds being shot by their huntsman: I think it a much kinder end than boredom, frailty or infirmity, but I am very glad we had our hound and would happily have more of them if unsuited/unhappy in the pack. Hounds are brilliant and rather fascinating canines really but probably not suited to every situation outside the pack.
 
Wow, Alec im concerned about your understanding and interpretation of 'extreme cruelty'. What i deem extreme cruelty is animal neglect, abuse, starvation, beating, abandonment, bloodsports ETC. If Rehoming a working dog with SUCCESS is your interpretation of cruelty then i am undoubted in my opinion that you must also, like me be a fellow anti hunt supporter

At 8 years old she was looking for the quiet life. If she was struggling with her 'domestic prison' im sure she would have let us know through her behaviours. However i think she quite enjoyed having a comfortable bed, not fighting for her food and regular walks.
 
Alec Swan said:
I'd be interested to hear which Pack would release a Hound to a pet home. To subject any Hound to a domestic prison would be cruelty in the extreme.

Alec.
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Eh? You have a very odd idea of cruelty, Alex. I'm not saying that hounds could be rehomed in a suburban setting, but in a country home, with people who understand their needs, now that is different. Cruelty in the extreme?
 
Kate, your understanding of the Hound is clearly quite different from that of those who dwell and deal with, handle and understand them on a daily basis, those who have given their lives to such work. I'll bow to your greater understanding! :D

Alec.
 
I think it all boils down to economics and practicalities. There are just far too many hounds (and domestic dogs for that matter) to be rehomed. Too many dogs are bred. Too many hounds are bred and then disposed of. I reckon a hound has a pretty good life though. I would like to see hunts give them a well earned retirement. But that's not going to happen. They're not going to feed, care for and exercise them until they need putting to sleep because their quality of life has deteriorated. It's not economical.
 
Alec, sincerely speaking, what would your perspective be on our fell hound? Would that be substantially different to a standard hound? If not, then it is extraordinary that she has been so happy, bless her. We were aware when we took her that she had been a hound and not, in fact, just a 'working dog': I do think the two are a little different. We have always made some allowances, never with worrying consequences thankfully.
 
Wagtail said:
I think it all boils down to economics and practicalities. There are just far too many hounds (and domestic dogs for that matter) to be rehomed. Too many dogs are bred. Too many hounds are bred and then disposed of. I reckon a hound has a pretty good life though. I would like to see hunts give them a well earned retirement. But that's not going to happen. They're not going to feed, care for and exercise them until they need putting to sleep because their quality of life has deteriorated. It's not economical.
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I agree with you, except that you've missed out one vital aspect of the life of a Hound; They are bred for just one purpose, and when they're denied that, and in old age especially so, the frustration for them must be dreadful.

Alec.
 
We have retired 5 hounds here in my time.
Two old bassetts, who free ranged in the day and slept in a kennel. (Seperately) they did fine.
A harrier who hated pack life and did fine, she was a house dog.
Two fox hounds, neither of whom coped without their pack, wouldn't eat and had to be PTS.

We have 8 dogs here anyway, so in the daytime all our old hounds lived a sort of pack life but not all took to it. The foxhounds were the hardest.

I think being PTS is much the best bet. How many ex racing tbs would be better off as salami than the auction circuit?
 
Alec Swan said:
Kate, your understanding of the Hound is clearly quite different from that of those who dwell and deal with, handle and understand them on a daily basis, those who have given their lives to such work. I'll bow to your greater understanding! :D

Alec.
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Any dog, hound or not if given the right rehabilitation can lead a normal life, with exceptions of course. Its people like you, who have made your feelings clear on giving hounds a chance at life, that let humanity down.
Any right minded caring individual who, as you say dwells and deals with, handles and understands them on a daily basis, you would have though would want to try and give them more of a life than 7 years. But oh i forget its the hunting world, everything is disposable.
 
Alec Swan said:
I agree with you, except that you've missed out one vital aspect of the life of a Hound; They are bred for just one purpose, and when they're denied that, and in old age especially so, the frustration for them must be dreadful.

Alec.
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You are right when you say that is what they are bred for. But you are wrong if you think that just because we humans breed a dog to do a certain job, they cannot do something else and be equally happy.
 
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