How can this happen?

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

@ KB I doubt that the transporter is at fault. It seems more likely that the horse arrived at the abbatoir and then was diverted to a sales yard.

A truly responsible breeder would have had the horse pts at home.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

God this makes me so sad. The poor horses in these situations.

And this is why I will never buy another horse again

If you wish to buy another horse, it is perfectly possible to avoid dodgy dealers and also to avoid private sellers who are 'trying it on'

 

[dorsetladette]

How terribly sad for all concerned.

Horse could of potentially been moved around several yards in the few weeks between the breeders (well intended, but badly executed) decision and OP's friend buying him.

 

[Dyllymoo]

If you wish to buy another horse, it is perfectly possible to avoid dodgy dealers and also to avoid private sellers who are 'trying it on'

Ok... one of the many reasons I wont be buying a horse again.

 

[Leandy]

Very sad. This is why if you decide to PTS you must make absolutely sure that it happens ie see it done or entrust to a good friend to do the same. Did they verify though that it was actually definitely the same horse? I'm sure a lot of passports go missing too - and get used by dodgy dealers for other horses which either don't have one or where they want to "lose" the history but appear legit.

 

[ruth83]

This would make no sense in England. Here, if you pay a slaughterman to collect a horse he kills it and takes it away dead. If you have a horse taken away alive for slaughter, you are normally paid meat money for it.

A very well respected set up local to me offers the option to have the horse removed alive (provided they are fit to travel) and shot at their yard rather than at the owners yard. You pay for this service. It has proved very useful with a yard backing onto a residential area and yards where access to remove a carcass would be incredibly difficult or cause a lot of damage.

 

[LegOn]

Ireland has a few 'do-gooder' charities aswell that are operating on the fringes of sanity and reality They are known for getting 'calls' from the meat man who offers them these horses, which the charity then BUYS - so much wrong with this situation, but then claims they are 'rescuing' them and either sell them on or rehome them - they use Facebook for donations and arent really operating as proper charities. Its so wrong on so many levels.

 

[rascal]

Awful for your friend, and the poor horse, this is the reason if i had such a horse, i would have it pts at home.

 

[SEL]

A very well respected set up local to me offers the option to have the horse removed alive (provided they are fit to travel) and shot at their yard rather than at the owners yard. You pay for this service. It has proved very useful with a yard backing onto a residential area and yards where access to remove a carcass would be incredibly difficult or cause a lot of damage.

I can see why that would be useful. Since land around our yard was sold for building and footpaths diverted there is nowhere that isn't overlooked (potentially by young children) with easy access for removal of the carcass. Personally I would want to PTS at home, but I know a fair few people who have travelled their horse to the local hunt to be shot. Usually horses who hunt regularly and think they are going to a party.

 

[SOS]

I haven’t RTFT but out of interest was the horse sold for meat money to the abattoir or did the breeder pay for it to be dispatched?

I imagine if the horse is ‘sold’ even for meat then the ‘owner’ aka the abattoir or middle man can do whatever they like with it. Morally absolutely wrong and awful but could be a loop hole.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I haven’t RTFT but out of interest was the horse sold for meat money to the abattoir or did the breeder pay for it to be dispatched?

I imagine if the horse is ‘sold’ even for meat then the ‘owner’ aka the abattoir or middle man can do whatever they like with it. Morally absolutely wrong and awful but could be a loop hole.

The breeder paid a knackerman to come and collect the horse. She runs a riding school/livery yard and did not want the horse dispatched with kids around.

This has really upset me. When I had Ginny put down my YO also wanted the local slaughterhouse to do it as she also runs a riding school. So I rang them. I said I could not face watching her shot and they said I could leave her alive in the field it was going to happen in, munching an apple and they would take over from there. They said it would be instant and she would know nothing about it. In the end I went with the vet as I just did not want to travel her. I wanted her PTS at home. But it never, ever occurred to me that they might not do what they said they would do and I cannot being to imagaine how I would feel getting a call saying she was still alive and with some vile dealer somewhere in Ireland.

 

[Red-1]

The breeder paid a knackerman to come and collect the horse. She runs a riding school/livery yard and did not want the horse dispatched with kids around.

This has really upset me. When I had Ginny put down my YO also wanted the local slaughterhouse to do it as she also runs a riding school. So I rang them. I said I could not face watching her shot and they said I could leave her alive in the field it was going to happen in, munching an apple and they would take over from there. They said it would be instant and she would know nothing about it. In the end I went with the vet as I just did not want to travel her. I wanted her PTS at home. But it never, ever occurred to me that they might not do what they said they would do and I cannot being to imagaine how I would feel getting a call saying she was still alive and with some vile dealer somewhere in Ireland.

The slaughterhouse where I know one went through was local to you. It also was one featured in the cruelty cases. I am glad, for your peace of mind, that in the end you went with your vet.

 

[SEL]

The breeder paid a knackerman to come and collect the horse. She runs a riding school/livery yard and did not want the horse dispatched with kids around.

This has really upset me. When I had Ginny put down my YO also wanted the local slaughterhouse to do it as she also runs a riding school. So I rang them. I said I could not face watching her shot and they said I could leave her alive in the field it was going to happen in, munching an apple and they would take over from there. They said it would be instant and she would know nothing about it. In the end I went with the vet as I just did not want to travel her. I wanted her PTS at home. But it never, ever occurred to me that they might not do what they said they would do and I cannot being to imagaine how I would feel getting a call saying she was still alive and with some vile dealer somewhere in Ireland.

I can understand why the breeder made the call she did. When I was on livery at a RS we had a sudden death in one of the internal stables on a Friday night - so with a full riding school on a Saturday just before Xmas we had the local removal men trying to extract a carcass whilst not ruining a tonne of kiddie Christmases. It wasn't pleasant.

Lucky your friend wasn't hurt and thankful she decided to track down the horse's history and not pass it on.

 

[stormox]

Blame the people who 'rescue from the meatman' .... private deals done on the quiet, sometimes even by 'rescues'

 

[irishdraft]

A sad story for all concerned . So many unscrupulous people about.

 

[cauda equina]

Surely it's not that difficult, for a planned pts, to get everybody out of the way for an hour or so?

 

[stormox]

Ireland has a few 'do-gooder' charities aswell that are operating on the fringes of sanity and reality They are known for getting 'calls' from the meat man who offers them these horses, which the charity then BUYS - so much wrong with this situation, but then claims they are 'rescuing' them and either sell them on or rehome them - they use Facebook for donations and arent really operating as proper charities. Its so wrong on so many levels.

There is one particular charity in the South - AHAR- that used to do this regularly, making plenty of money through posts on FB, then selling the horses on. They still have a few horses although DAFM actually stopped them rescuing (buying) horses and their charity number taken away. But officially that charity is no more and the place is now known by another name -AHI- Animal Haven Ireland. The same manager was kept on, and some of the staff. They deal mainly in dogs now.

 

[luckyoldme]

Ae..i bought a horse years ago from an irish dealer operating in the ne of england .
If i had googled his name first I would have known he had been in court for horse dealing misdeeds many times...could it be the same dealer ?

 

[PurBee]

Got a bit more info this am - breeder paid a slaughter man to collect the horse. So this is looking like crime? She's getting legal advice to pursue the slaughterman/ abattoir. And my friend is going after the dealer via trading standards.

But I'm sure these vile people know how to cover their tracks and get away with it.

I hate people, sometimes

Good luck with trading standards uk.
I contacted them about a registered agri dealer who brazenly online advertises machinery for sale, takes thousands off customers, and then didnt deliver the goods.
He was committing many counts of fraud, all documented by us for the authorities.
This dealer also had others online who suffered similar fate to us, had to take him to court etc.
TS advised us to contact police.
local police to dealer said its civil and to contact TS. (Outright provable tax fraud and theft and the police didnt want to know!?)
TS advised small claims court.
After no support from the suthorities we eventually got the money back ourselves.
The dealer is still live and active today dealing online.

p.s - he got named and shamed online several times, so he just changed his dealer account name and begin anew! Hence why we didnt find any ‘bad’ reviews initially, until having done the ‘deal’, only then did we have his personal information to google his horrific history.
The authorities were informed of his previous crimes too - still no interest ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Surely it's not that difficult, for a planned pts, to get everybody out of the way for an hour or so?

Exactly! Which RS has kids running around during weekdays in term time? I would expect any Yo to be able to accommodate pts, what on earth would they do in case of emergency?

 

[Littlewills]

so an owner does the responsible thing and pays for a horse to be PTS, and everyone is up in arms as the horse is then fraudulently sold on. I think you are all focusing on blaming the wrong person!

 

[stormox]

Does an abbatoir (also known as a factory) actually own the horse after they pay the money to the seller, or is the seller paying for a service? If they own the horse I assume they are within their rights to 'save' it. If a service is being paid for they are surely in breach of contract by selling it?
There were plenty of people on here wanting to buy those Welsh foals from the abbatoir.

 

[bouncing_ball]

Exactly! Which RS has kids running around during weekdays in term time? I would expect any Yo to be able to accommodate pts, what on earth would they do in case of emergency?

Knackerman used to come super early when yard was quiet.

I’d absolutely need to know.

 

[ester]

The RS I was at they always got picked up by the knacker and trailered back to his. It never sat right with me, I don't know whether I had heard something from somewhere for me to worry about it (not much internet then) but I remember being very worried/nightmares as a teen that my favourite pony wouldn't have been PTS at all when she needed to be.

 

[stormox]

We have a yard not too far from us that gets regular deliveries from ireland. They are tried and the down right dangerous ones get shipped back and the others sold. Its heart breaking.

Why is that heartbreaking?It is surely right to send horses back and not sell them on? That is how a lot of dealers operate including some very reputable ones!

 

[cauda equina]

Exactly! Which RS has kids running around during weekdays in term time? I would expect any Yo to be able to accommodate pts, what on earth would they do in case of emergency?

And what would they do with horses who were unable to travel, such as catastrophic injuries or untreatable colic?
You would hope that yards would have a plan worked out for dire situations which could be quickly put into action, rather than having to make one up once the emergency had happened

 

[Brownmare]

Does an abbatoir (also known as a factory) actually own the horse after they pay the money to the seller, or is the seller paying for a service? If they own the horse I assume they are within their rights to 'save' it. If a service is being paid for they are surely in breach of contract by selling it?
There were plenty of people on here wanting to buy those Welsh foals from the abbatoir.

I'm not sure how it works for horses (having never been in that situation) but we sell plenty of cattle and sheep direct to the abattoir and once they are unloaded onsite they have to be killed and are not allowed to be taken away "on the hoof" even if we are paying the abattoir to kill them to have back for our own consumption.

 

[jofwigby]

Loaded on a lorry bound for the slaughterhouse - so not the actual knackermans wagon ? The lack of integrity in our Equine Identification is shameful and an open opportunity to dodgy dealers

 

[hobo]

I am in the why not have it put to sleep at home if they really care what happens to the horse. This would have stopped any of the other things that happened.

 

[stormox]

I am in the why not have it put to sleep at home if they really care what happens to the horse. This would have stopped any of the other things that happened.

Maybe- but I dont think we should blame the breeder/owner for what happened, it is the transporter or abbatoir owner that has committed a crime here. And its also possible the dealer who sold the horse didnt know it was meant to have been killed.